Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Since some people have shown an interest....
Here is one of the ways I like to play Dominions.
http://www.Dom3Minions.com/RandomMaps/MegaMap.zip

It has 1495 provinces, 3 large oceans and 3 large land areas. You can play with all the other nations in your era and still have wilderness between you making scouting for them an effort. And there lots of impassable mountains creating chokepoints. It also has various surprises scattered around the map so be sure to SCOUT CAREFULLY before attacking a province.

I also added a short script that shows how I generated the additions that are scattered on the map. The "interesting.yab" isnt needed to play the map but if you have a YaBasic or some other basic then you might use it to generate surprises for other maps also. Or re-generate the surprises on this one if you play it enough to get to know whats there.

Warning: generating the world at the beginning of the game can take awhile

Gandalf Parker

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Wow, now that's a huge map. It's very tempting to try it but I'm afraid, that the turn generation time would leap to at least 10-15 minutes...

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

On my machine it takes 3 minutes to create the game, and about a minute to process the turns. But it is a nice new windows machine. The hosting time is just long enough for me to stop waiting and realize I should probably try to accomplish at least one other thing than playing Dominions all day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I wasnt really sure if anyone would want to play it but I like it. It feels more strategic to me to be able to do any tactic I want. Small maps tend to force too many issues.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

man my machine was top of the line a couple years ago, and it takes like 10 minutes to creat 5 minutes per turn

it really does have a large wilderness feel to it though.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

How long does it take to process turns on large maps during late game??

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

My game is on turn 39.

The only really large game I have numbers on is on my server. If you look at
http://www.dom3minions.com/games/PvK-e-Oceania/
Its on turn 74, started with 79 nations, and is up to 17 minutes to process a turn

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Just don't play with LA Ermor on a map like that. Turn generation could be utterly insane.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Ha ha! This map was so mighty it killed my computer! OK, it was actually bad ram, but the coincidence was pretty funny.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Yeah playing with the extremes of this game has let me find out I had bad ram on one of my machines also. Kindof funny. It reminds me of something I came up with a long time ago.

Hey Boss, look at this.....
"Diagnostic software designed to maximumly test the limits of
memory, disc read/write access, keyboard and mouse inputs, the highest
video settings and sound quality all concurrently. If used on a regular
basis any changes in system performance would be instantly noticed
before degrading to the point of affecting other softwares."
It's called insert-name-of-favorite-game-here

Gandalf Parker

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

what are the specs on your machine gandalf, knowing how its supposed to perform under those conditions might help us find our own bad ram or other bottlenecks

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

The computers I use from my desk?

the old server running 1 demo's only Dom3 game, 1 10-player mid sized Dom3 game, 8 4-player blitz Dom3 games, also a MUD server, email, lots of other stuff...
System Information:
CPU Information:
Number of CPUs: 1
Processor #0 Information:
Vendor: AuthenticAMD
Model: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
Speed: 857.661 MHz
Cache: 256 KB
Total Memory: 320772 kb
Operating System:
Linux 2.4.18-686

Newer server running 5 very large dom3 games, irc, many domains, and generating dom3 maps, etc.
3Ghz Pentium4
1 gig memory
linux Debian

old desktop now doing mail reading, browsing forums, reading documents, etc.
996 Mhz
2 gig memory
WinXP

new desktop playing games including Dom3 mega game.
dual processor 2128Mhz
2Gb memory
WinXp

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

A minor update on my adventures with this map....After my debacle with the bad ram I fired it up on the early age playing as Niefelheim.... On average, turns take 4-5 minutes to process on my 2 gig dual core. Yowza.

I don't mean to be a noob, but how can I generate maps like this? My main disappointment with the randomly generated maps is the uniformity of the independents...

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I tried a game vs 20 or so Impossible AIs, as MA Man, and had the good surprise of getting a free Horror... Now, 10 turns into the game, it's been solo conquering a province per turn, and largely leads the Hall of Fame with 129 kills...

Since it's got Tough Skin, I want to see how high its Protection can go - currently 26, I know it can do better than that... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

A free horror ?!?

How could you get a free horror exactly, without using wish ?

For what I understand, Gandalf script only add random units/labs/temples and forts in independant provinces.

Do you mean that map settings that add units and commanders are not overwriten by the nation starting units when the province is set as a capitol ?

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

You are crazy!

I'm guessing you set research at the slowest level. What do for the other settings on these really big maps?

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Yep. Nice buddy, even with a Limp affliction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Yeah, that's right. This is how you can set up test maps with lots of researchers (but, the game could overwrite the starting units when the province is used as a capitol, except if the capitol is set in the same .map file - that would make some sense).

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

The script was included.
At the moment Im using a really simple one. It just counts thru 1495 provinces, and randomly drops things into it. Im afraid that it does include a chance for you to start in a province that has a surprise. An additional commander, with level 4 random equipment, maybe some bodyguards, and some additonal units.

The only way to avoid that bit of luck in maps like this would be to designate all of the provinces that people can start in and avoid those when tossing in surprises. By the way, I ended up with that horror as a neighbor right next to my castle and Im still trying to get rid of it.

Im still generating batches of maps on my server and making a webpage to see if any catch my interest.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/maxs/_index.jpg
Im also waiting for the new patch so I can finally set ALL of the colors. Then I will pick one to take the time to clean up the neighbors, and set the starting locations. Also I might toss in AI alliances and such just to make it harder. Then I will set it up to re-create it every day so that people can snag a new one when they have played out that one.

If you want to try a smaller (and daily rerun) version then you can check out the Dom2 version. It can be played in Dom3 I believe.
http://www.dom2minions.com/PokeEye.shtml

Gandalf Parker

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I've just finished making a conversion of your script in Perl.

(note : the perl module Math::Random is needed, easy to install on Windows with activeperl)

As you were using the same code in lots of places (mainly for commander generation + bodyguards and/or squads of units), I made a function to centralize that, so it should be easier to change numbers/probabilities with the version.

I plan to add some more features in the near future, such as a parsing of the original file (to get the number of province and other infos), and maybe a separate config file (maybe in XML)

Edit : updated attachment with latest version

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I recommend accepting a map name and creating a new .map file for it each time. Such as, if they say they want to do the eye.map then create a .map file calling it eye_chaos.map using the eye.tga image. That way they can do it to any map they want without destroying the original for MP games.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

new version of the perl script :

- now the script need the original map file :

gmap.pl map=<original_file>.map

- the original file will not be modified anymore, by default the modified map file will be named <original_file>_chaos.map

- you can specify another name for the output file :

gmap.pl map=<original_file>.map output=test.map

(exemple in the gmap.bat file included in the archive)

- the number of province of the original file is now automatically filled by parsing the original file

- for provinces with no random goodies, "#setland <ID>" is no longer added to the output as there is nothing more that follow for this province.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

another version : the script now add to the province description (in the output map file) that the map has been edited by it, with the date and time.

This should help for those that wish to use the script several times on the same map

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Tried the map from Gandalf and it brought my computer (AMD 3700+) to a screaming halt. I'll try it again tonight if I have time...

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

If the MegaMap crashes then try the Dom2 "Poke in the Eye" scenario. It does the same things but with a smaller map it doesnt have quite the replayability. However since I regenerate PokeEye every day that helps.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

How long does it take to finish these games?
How long before you actually have contact with other nations?

And how long to play a turn by the time you've beaten one or two nations?

I'd never make it. I can barely finish games with 3-4 AI nations before starting to dread trudging through another turn. How do you deal with the scale of the late game?

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

It's easy... setup the victory condition as victory points. It prevents the SP or MP gamer from having to conquer the entire map. It also adds a new flavor to the game because if some AI or human starts getting close to winning it changes who you have to focus on being your enemy.
I recommend making each capital a victory point then add several 1pt, 2pt and 3pt VP provinces... set the winning amount as 35% of all VPs. The larger the map means adding more 2pt and 3pt provinces. If the game becomes to easy then add more AI opponents or edit the .map file and setup the AI opponents as allies.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I get victory points. But we're talking 1500 provinces here. Even with 35%, you're going to be a huge empire before winning.

I'm just curious how bad it gets in these huge games and how Gandalf handles it.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

To everyone:
Keep in mind that these are NOT the types of games for the strategy MP player but more for the Solo RPG player. At least thats why I enjoy it. I like playing my pretender thru a long game. I get really into BEING that god and getting pissed at the other gods for what they do. I dont want to play just until the winning strategy is picked and then the game is over without being played out completely. I like playing in a whole world.
I consider heavy management to be part of the headache of trying to rule the world http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I dont know yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Even with the fact that I started with Dom3 a year ago. Im one of the beta testers. And I have definetly played more maximum games than anyone else. I kindof think that was one of the reasons that I was in beta, to test the insane limits of everything in the game. Max map sizes, max nations. I found the limits and some were changed on number of nations, units in the game, armies, network streaming, etc.

But I have proven that if you WANT to play Dominions as if it was an RPG world then you can. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think I was 30 turns into my latest game before I reached another nation.

I dont know yet. I didnt bother keeping track of such things in my other big games. In this one Im still trying to take out my first enemy but I have beaten the god and taken most of their forts. It also helped that I pushed them into war with two of the AIs at the same time.

It depends on what you like or dont like. As a stay-at-home dad (retired and caring for a handicapped child) this works well for me. I can spend almost an hour doing a turn, then when I hit host it takes far too long for me to sit and wait so Im forced to get up and take care of a chore. While Im doing a chore I can think about what I will do for my next turn.

Its not like an MP game where forgetting any little thing on each turn can be the end of you. Im kinda sloppy in how I play but hey, Im a god, I can be sloppy if I want. Every once in awhile I have to do "cleanup". Run thru the F1 screen to set PD on provinces I missed, or to view the magic sites that my monthly searching mages discovered, or check for useful indepts that I should be making.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I recall reading Gandalf doesn't finish his SP games when playing 1000 or more provinces. I see he already responded... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
I always finish my SP and MP games to the bitter end whether I'm winning or losing. In the scenario where 35% of VPs are needed on maps of 1400 provinces... the time to win actually becomes a matter of research and gem income. Once you have enough gems to create powerful armies all you need is the research to teleport them to the correct VP provinces.
The only downside is the AI needs to be improved to recognize provinces with VPs.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

If you like the concept, but prefer to use a smaller map, you can use my perl script with any normal map.

I used it yesterday on a tower map with "only" 150 provinces (but with higher percentage of random goodies)

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

If you generate a map for solo play I recommend turning the mountains to 50 or higher. It creates many "chokepoint" positions on the map which control the access to small areas. Allowing for lots of "cut them off at the pass" tactics. At setting shigher than 50 you can get a maze.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

in my first test of the mega map you provided, Yomi has started across the southwest continent from tien chi (though still its closest on-land neighbor in an east west direction...

and the first war that I happened to partake in.... japan vs. china

also along the northern part of said continent vanhiem is duking it out with nifelhiem.

was this thing planned such that it would be relatively historically accurate?

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I also recommend this for new players... the more experienced players should use 30 or less since the AI opponent lack the intelligence to effectively use chokepoints.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I know : inspired by your horizontal maps that you posted before I got the game (waiting for tuxgame made me live more than 1 month without dom3 after the official release date ! At least it made me subscribre to the forums : I had been lurking since dom2) I used the random map generator to make maps with similar settings, ... but smaller.

I love maps with lots of specials and chokepoints, and I love SP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

I think in fact that our playstyles are very similar, exept that I prefer smaller maps (I like a big game sometimes, but 1500 provinces is really asking for trouble http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

Just another thing oh mightly Gandalf, Lord of Eternal Games, Master of Randomness, do you think that extending my perl conversion is useful ?

I have several plans, such making the random commanders depend on the province type(s) (for exemple no random commander and units drowning in a sea province, and thematically appropriate monsters in forests/moutains, maybe an increased chance of lootable treasures in caves (more commanders and monsters with magic items), ...

But for such a project, I would need to parse the complete unit list and choose wich units could go to wich terrain type, and others hings like that.

It's not the programming by itself that worry me, it's the time to process the huge amount of raw data in dom3.

If I think the project can really be useful for the community, I could manage to get the work done. (perl programming is part of my day job, so it's not there that I will have problems)

I can also take sugggestions : I should be able to parse any information from original map files (even starting provinces if there's defined) and from there make any moddable modification wished.

Note : maybe this thread would be more appropriate in the mod/maps subforums ? What do you think ?

If others that Gandalf wish to give their opinion it will be welcome.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Thats kewl. But the map I provided does not set the starting positions at all. Everything has its pros and cons (I tend to say that alot) and in this case it means that each restart will give you a very different game.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Totally. Perl is also compatable to all three OS's that the game runs on. And its raw script that is fairly easy to read and edit if someone wants to. Even non-programmers can do ok editing a script like that. Im just too lazy to move off of basic to perl. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Been there. But the bit-math for terrains was a headache. Also logical placements needs a database. I think there are threads in the Dom2 forum where I asked if someone would be interested in going thru all of the monsters/units and assigning tags for terrain and types (woodland, avian, winged, and commander for instance). I started too but like most of my projects it nevr got finished.

I can provide a raw list from the game, such as all units. But its just name and number, no data.

Its ok that it started here but splitting it would be good if you want to continue the project. I tend to leave the players comments here and pursue the planning stuff in the mod/map forum. By the way, you might take a look at
http://www.dom2minions.com/SemiRandom.shtml
Or actually any of the dropped projects at
http://www.dom2minions.com

Gandalf Parker

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Gandalf,

I don't think I phrased my last qestion very well. To clarify, I was wondering, for these really big maps, if you change the setting for the supply, resources and gold income levels to something other than 100, and if so, why. Also, what do you generally set the independent province army strength and the magic site frequency to?

I really enjoy your random maps.I'm messing around with one of your tubular maps now. Thank you!

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I havent tried messing with supply/resource/income settings yet but I do recognize that they have the ability to create a different game with different strategies. I will probably get around to them eventually. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I sometimes set indepts higher. And sometimes even lower (which makes a VERY interesting game on a mega-map).

I do tend to set magic sites higher in my own games. I might eventually get a script done to push the magic sites to the max and beyond (read bit-binary terrain settings and up it on the map).

In case people havent noticed, I have a strong tendency to head off in any direction that the crowd isnt going. With so many options in this game, I get peeved at the impression that certain strategies are game-killers when they tend to be strong strategies only for certain game settings. So I love to explore the options and see if it might make a playable challenge.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I am curious how the late era nations with special dominions perform in your massive single player games. Particularly Ermor and Rlyeh. Does Ermor go nuts? Or on these larger maps do other nations step up later in the game to take them out?

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

In the super-massive test-games using all 79 nations it was Ermor in an early lead but their scales do eventually use up their people once enough ations stop their advance. In mid-game it was Oceania which always took the lead. At the end it was Arcos coming up fast if they had survived that long. I didnt run the Dom3 test games to the end altho I wish I had with at least one. I didnt know Id lose the ability to do those. Of course things vary depending on factors such as who it is that Ermor starts next to, who Arcos starts next to, Abyssia, etc. By the way, the first one out was usually Mictlan because the AI doesnt handle it well. All of this was reported to the devs for consideration.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I think I might have found the map I wanted to put extra time into.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMap...tContinent.jpg

Not only is it fairly maze-like, and has 4 oceans which tone-down the abilities of the water nations. But best of all it randomly provided the color of sea borders that I like. I tohught I was going to have to wait for the next patch to get that. So I got my land, water, land border, and water border colors.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I think I might have found the map I wanted to put extra time into.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMap...tContinent.jpg

Not only is it fairly maze-like, and has 4 oceans which tone-down the abilities of the water nations. But best of all it randomly provided the color of sea borders that I like. I tohught I was going to have to wait for the next patch to get that. So I got my land, water, land border, and water border colors.

The other maps I was considering are here.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMap...ers/_index.jpg

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Maze-like maps are fun, but they unfortunately makes the game against AI much easier.

I was thinking about 4D hyper-cube map with attached opposite side (sorry, can't recall how it is properly called). Idea is that on 3x3x3x3 (81 provinces) hypercube any 2 provinces will be neigbours. On larger one - 4x4x4x4 some pairs won't be neighbours any more, but it will still be very open map. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure how to visualise it in 2D. Ok for 3x3x3x3 map you don't really need anything complex - you just know that everything has a common border. But figuring out what borders and what not on 2D visualisation of 4x4x4x4 hypercube is non-trivial and '8' won't help much because there will be so many edges indicating connections http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

You want an insane game against the AI? Try the game at the beginning of this thread
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/MegaMap.zip
with the indepts set to 3 or 1 or even zero. That way the only opponents that the AI will hit are the specials that will grant it extra magical equipment.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

That is an interesting idea Alex. Even a map with say 60 provences where every provence connects to every other one would be interesting.

Or something like each capital connects to every other provence, but capitals are not connected, and individual provences are not connected to other individual provences.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

That type would kind of make rushes a little too strong, being able to hit any other capitol as soon as you conquer 1 indy provinces(the sort of resources capitols could pull in would also be insane).

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

It would certainly be a very different game and would definitely need to play with balanced nations (all good rushers or all bad). What would be interesting is no provence would every be "safe". So you probably could not expand that fast or someone else can just snatch each provence away from you again. High PD could be extremely usefull (along with your regular force).

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

Here is another idea. Although this would be much better for a MP game instead of AI.

A map like this (see attachement) could be built for any number of players. Basically a spoke wheel of sorts. Each player will have only have direct contact with 2 other player. You could have any number of provences between the players, and on the inner wheel. The center provence should be guarded by an insanely powerful group of Indies with commanders able to withstand most remote attack spells. Also load it up with powerful magic sites (50% off spell cost site). Make the 2-3 provences near the center also guarded by powerful indies in each spoke, to make it difficult for a flying race to hop over them.

Re: Gandalf\'s Crazy Solo Games
 

I think there are some Spirograph programs out there that can help you create maps like that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If independents could patrol...
 

Problem with the 'guardian monster' concept is that currently, they don't. You can even let them automatically replenish forces (via Soul Contracts for free devils, for instance; or maybe one of the freespawning pretender types?) but they won't stop a Black Servant from sitting around with a Bane Venom Charm, or catch the massed Valkyries led by a Dis.

It'd also be useful for various map concepts if independents patrolled; perhaps even more interesting if some areas could be designated as 'no-teleport' zones or 'cannot fly into here' (cave provinces in general?). An underworld where you -must- fight you way through the hard way, because your mages don't know the precise locations and therefore can't teleport there, or where if you're going to be sneaking you risk being caught -- that'd be fun.

Re: If independents could patrol...
 

Ive asked for independent patrols for a long LONG time. Randomizing maps would me much more interesting. Right now I can scatter forts and labs and temples around the map but the indepts dont seen to use them. And a fort is just a freeby if even a scout can take the province because everyone is inside the fort.