Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

With the advent of three ages to the game, we begin to see a perspective of time in Dom 3. Nations rise and fall, races become extinct while new ones come into being. Humans rise as the dominant race, and technology begins to overshadow magic. The very fabric of the magical universe becomes unstable and uncertain. The stars align in mysterious ways and gods die and are reborn.

Soooo...I want more.
Ideas for new Ages in Dom3:
The Dawning Age.
Technology is Late stoneage through copper to early bronze age, low magic as peoples first start coming together into nations (IRL something approximating the conditions between 12,500-6000 years ago). Undead always have stone weapons and no metal armor. Research ability is always locked in to very slow in this age, with low-powered mages overall. Cavemen and lizardmen replace humans as the dominant race. Humans are nowhere to be found. Monkeys and apes are everywhere, just to tick off the Creationists http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Icthytosians and a race of intelligent crab-people (1: I couldn't resist, 2: they could be done in a way that they'd be cool, and 3: they could represent a nation in this era with good Prot.) are dominant in the oceans-Mermen are present though few in number, suggesting them as our evolutionary ancestors. Many independent provinces are guarded by SC monsters and powerful prehistoric beasts.
While magic is still on the rise, units are in general even more powerful individually than they currently are in Early Age. Jotun nations have access to recruitable trolls and more Niefel giant heroes, the Fomorians show up, as do the Nephilim. Treelords are alive and well and in the prime of their power. Kailasan Devas, Devatas, Rakshasas, etc. are also in the full of their power-including the more powerful 4 armed breeds as recruitables-and don't yet employ monkeys. A Pre-C'tus Lizardman nation has access to huge, powerful dinosaurs, Caelum units average larger in size and employ large, vicious, flightless birds called Axe-Beaks. Mammoths are now controlled by a blood-magic caveman nation led by ogre kings who can shapeshift into giant bears. Agarthans start in the oceans, while Atlantis starts on land. Hydras are amphibious (if they aren't already-I forget) and are worshipped by a merman nation with some pure human recruitables and shambler recruitables (suggesting Shamblers as an offshoot of humans, which atleast gives Shamblers a certain pathos, helping them to be a step above the "big dumb amphibous spearfodder" they usually end up being) There is also a nation of Elder Things (ala H.P Lovecraft-"At the Mountains of Madness") who are the most magically advanced at this time (The other nations stole the finer secrets of magic from them after their nation collapsed.) and have bonuses when using Crossbreeding and Advanced Crossbreeding. Thematically, they are supposed to be the originators of many of the most bizarre races in Dom 3-they create, for instance, Shuggoths, which will feature in this age. Tien'Chi is an empire of the undead and spirits ruled by Pennanggalan (a breed of vampires who can remove their own heads at night-the heads then fly around and bite victims) and various celestial demons-a bit like Late Age Ermor in practice, but ofcourse considerably more Asian-flavored. There are no longbows, crossbows, recurve bows, etc. in the game, except as forged items. Shortbows and crude shortbows are present and fairly widespread, as are javelins and harpoons. The Atlatl is the dominant missle weapon technology, enabling javelins to be hurled 2xstrength. Slings are ubiquitous. Swords are rare and short, axes, maces, knives, and spears are much more widespread. Tridents, glaives, and other polearms are almost non-existent. Calvalry is also rare, especially horse-calvalry (where present, it consists of units riding ponies-no kick). Tower shields are non-existant except as forged items. Wardogs are prevalent, chariots are present but rare. Apes are not the only ones who hurl sticks and stones-this is a common practice and some units specialize in this.

If we can't possibly get this approved as a new age, I'll most likely just create a mod around the concept, but I figured I'd give it a try since new ages would be for everyone to modify and use.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

By the way, instead of just early, middle, and late ages, I came up with some more thematic (cough*less boring*cough) names for the Ages:

The Dawning Age (above), Age of Miracles (early age), Age of Heroes (middle age), Age of Iron and Gold (late age), and Age of Wisdom (to come). I figure it wouldn't take a lot to change the names of the ages, since all you'd be doing is changing a short piece of script, so it's a quick fix and would definitely add a little to flavor.

Thanks!

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

This sounds like quite an ambitious project. I look forward to hearing more about BadgerMod.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Well, the purpose is to illustrate the desire for the ability to have more than 3 ages in the game. While I do intend to create such a mod, I'd like to see the ages themselves become extensible, and I felt this would be more appropriate a place to request such a thing than to clutter up the Mod Wishlist with several huge posts, since I'm currently formulating the directions I have in mind for a 5th later-than-Late age, and will post them when it all comes together. Worst come to worst, it's atleast fun to share ideas and perhaps get some feedback on how others think pre-and-post ages may shape and be shaped by what's come before and will come after them. It's kind of a Dom3 speculative sci-fi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Well the did just create an era zero (used by modders to make a nation unavailable). Maybe they can create an era 4. It might be fun to make a game that only allows modded nations.

Hmmm come to think of it, since you can create a network game with era-by-number I wonder what will happen after the next patch if you start a game --era 0

(I can hear Johan moaning now and rushing to block another of those crazy-gandalf-hacks)

Looking to the future
 

Age of Wisdom:
Technology level is approximately (very roughly) that of 1250 A.D.
While there are no gunpowder weapons as such, fireworks have been invented and are used in battle by Tien'Chi. Occasionally an independent Pyromancer offers her services to the highest bidder, and within a century the pyrochemical arts will likely be widespread. Crossbows are at the peak of technology, and come in many different forms. Ship-building and sailing have reached new heights and many nations can cross deep water. Larger and more complex weapons are used on the battlefield-it is the age of the machine. The nation of Ermor has finally been obliterated, but it's legacy has affected most other nations, and several are direct or indirect descendants of the empire. Races tend to be well-mixed in this age. What one does and how one lives is far more important than who your grandfather was, as the power of kingdoms and monarchies has forever been diluted. Fewer than ever before claim, or are particularly proud of, the so-called "purity" of their bloodlines as feudalism begins a long fall into disfavor. Even the divine right of religion and the place of the gods is being questioned, as the literary works of the sceptics of old Arcoscephale are rediscovered. Pretenders of this youngest age are wise to open their arms to all who choose to worship them, as this is also an age of questions. Humans are now in decline, as so many races of the past have been. Hoburgs are now rising as the dominant race, and there are no less than three major hoburg nations.
The most militant hoburgs form a society, originally and ostensibly to protect hoburg villages from the undead hordes of the last age. Drawing from the tactics and strategy of ancient Ermor and the fanaticism of Marignon, they have far surpassed defensive goals and now rank upon rank of pike and crossbow wielding, chain-mail clad hoburgs march across the countryside, leading pogroms against human ghettos, burning jotuns at the stake as witches, and making war on all who oppose them, in the name of hoburg security. Beyond their carefully measured borders, the most warlike sell themselves to the highest bidder as mercenary companies, while other tough hoburgs guard caravans of goods which flood in to the capital of what was once called Midgard. The second hoburg nation strides through the endless jungles and savanna, perched upon the mighty backs of armored elephants. Allied with the dwarven steelworkers who make the great beasts' armor, exotic tribes of flying monkeys, and all manner of refugees, vagabonds, and hangers-on, they are a nomadic merchant people on an endless caravan, who only build walls to defend their winter villages and sacred elephant graveyards. The third hoburg nation fled underground to escape the ravages and disease of the last age. Having merged with the remnants of Agartha and with the earth-gnomes, earth-worshipping hoburgs riding giant black bats now patrol the underworld.
The dead too have their nations: Ulm has been eaten from the inside by it's vampire rulers and gone the way of cursed Ermor. It has swallowed what was left of Marignon up, and Ulm's death-knights and ghost-ships haunt both hills and high seas, hunting for any sign of rebellion because to them such is the signal to a feast of souls. They are opposed by the stalwart slayers of Man, who, with refugees from lost Marignon, have sworn themselves enemies of all undead.
A nation of ghouls has dug itself up from beneath the ruins of ancient C'tis to feast upon the innumerable dead, and now that they've gorged themselves on the dead, they'll feed on those who's blood still runs warm. They've already devoured Pangaea and Patala, and now set their hungry sight on anything else that breathes.
As though to signal the welcome end of the last age and the beginning of the new, the long-dormant Smouldercone of Abyssia has erupted, burying their cities and the high aeries of Caelum perhaps forever beneath a blizzard of black ash. The Abyssians fled far from their homelands and into the desert, mixing freely with other races, especially Caelum refugees and humans, and now worship their new masters, the demon Afreit. Machaka, having turned away from the spider and to the lion continues to flourish under the guidance of benevolent voodoo priests, although many among them have not forgotten the old ways, and some have turned to even darker paths of hoodoo. Jotuns, long diminished and now persecuted by the hoburgs, have formed a secret society who's hidden members guard the greatest magical powers still remaining in this world. For years they had no true homeland and few safe retreats, but the powers at their command are as vast as were their ancestors, and they've found dark and bloody allies in the mountain jungles of Mictlan. Jomon, having turned into itself for centuries, has decided to turn outward towards conquest. Seeking a weapon to conquer the whole world with, they now attempt to reopen the Oni gate. From out of the frozen wastes came the hunters of Atlantis. Affected less than other folk by the madness of R'lyeh, they became one with the Dreamlands. Having helped R'lyeh conquer old Arcoscephale, the seers, mystics, and cultists of R'lyeh seek to share their bizarre visions with everyone, under the guidance of their dreaming god. Other Atlantians held on to the ways of the cold lands, and learned to summon up mighty and deadly spirits of the past. Finally, as the ashes of Ermor were finally extinguished, a lone consul escaped the purifying fires. Fleeing far north into the endless steppes, he discovered a Pretender overlooked by all others and, through acts of worship most terrible and foul, became forever Corrupted. Now more awful than even the undead and at the head of a Corrupt army unlike any ever seen, he seeks to purify the world in a different kind of fire.

Re: Looking to the future
 

Well Gandalf, originally, I had 7 ages in mind, but considering the scope I have planned for just 2 more, a total of 7 ages might cause either too much redundancy or make games very unlike what I consider a "true" Dominion-flavored game to be, since the earliest of the 7 would occur well into prehistoric times, and the latest would be late middle to early Renaissance. I do hope that I've successfully shown that more ages are viable, and I would like to see the ability to mod in a total of 7 ages, I just don't know if I personally can come up with interesting and distinct pre-Dawning and post-Wisdom ages.

Re: Looking to the future
 

Fixt

Re: Looking to the future
 

Now to comment on your mod idea (Yes I read it while I formatted it for you)...

I think the addition of additional ages is a great idea. I personally don't like alot of your ideas for a more modern age, but the main reason is because I am generally a fan of more classical earlier based themes, so I am biased from the get go.

You also wipe out my precious Pangaea and you have Hoburgs running the world. No thanks.

That being said, you show alot of enthusiasm towards this game and I believe you will have the ambition to finish such a mod with proper planning and dedication.

Goodluck on your mod! I can't wait to see the variety of ideas that should spring forth just from undertaking such an ambitious project.

Re: Looking to the future
 

Thanks for formatting that for me. I think it's actually easier for me to read large blocks of script, and that's probably why I write that way, but then my eyes are pretty bad, and I haven't been able to locate my glasses for some time.

In order to make the Age of Wisdom work thematically, it was necessary to make some tough decisions. I didn't want to make the world into a Utopia, because that wouldn't be very fun to play in. It's not like Pangaea has been wiped from existance, they will still be in the game, used for poignancy and flavor as independents or members of other nations.

By the way, if I DO decide to create a winter for Pangaea, they would be a swamp-themed nation of undead, quite possibly involving undead Treelords. And it IS a possibility, now that I consider it.

and it's not like I WANT hoburgs running the world, it's just my little attempt at social commentary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

In creating this storyline, I aspired to add a certain level of intrigue and desperation which I think would be present in a world-war situation. I specifically had the movie Casablanca in mind-it's a strange mix, Casablanca and Dom3, but I definitely wanted the climate of good times gone before, heroics going on in the shadows, and really hard choices being made for the greater good, set against a WW2-esque background.

The Nazis are definitely represented (a hint if it's not apparent: little Nazi hoburgs who "have the best of intentions" and "need more breeding room" and are "securing their borders" after "the destruction of their homeland and collapse of their economy"), as are the Jews and other persecuted races, just perhaps not in the forms you might expect.

Pangaea is one of these races. Their forests are being cut down by axe-weilding hoburgs and their peoples are being burned as witches, locked up in zoos, or hunted for food. That's just the reality of a very bad situation.

I also had in mind that races keep going from larger to smaller through the ages in Dom3, and I didn't want to continue the situation that too often comes up in fantasy novels-namely that humans are taking over the world and all the "fantasy peoples" are dying out.

Humans in this case are just another in a long line of fading races, badly decimated by Ermor in the last age. Hoburgs are humanlike so I can legitimately guess which directions they may grow in-and they're small to keep with the larger to shorter theme, and also to evoke the idea that in these times we live in, we're standing on the shoulders of giants who have come before.

Hoburgs are the up and coming new race, able to quickly spring back because of their high growth and breeding-rate combined with the fact that they're generally discounted or ignored by older, larger races, after the devastation of the previous era.

They're size 1 too, which can be a real advantage in combat when combined with the right technology and enough numbers.

They're small, tough, and they've got chips on their shoulders, so instead of always having larger and weirder evil races to fight, now you've got lots and lots of angry, serious, demented little children with weapons, and they're taking over the world-and that can be very scary.

Re: Looking to the future
 

By the way, can anyone out there explain how the Void Gate works in terms of programming? I'm fairly certain it's currently unmoddable, but how much trouble would it be for the Devs to create a new site which did basically the same thing (only this time with Oni and undead)? Or much better yet, allow us to mod in our own version and in the process do all the legwork.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Wouldn't be thematic, unless Illwinter named them "The Very Early Age" and the "Past Your Bedtime Age". I mean, c'mon, when you have Early, Middle, and Late, it pretty much covers everything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

(Except for not giving an age when _ALL_ nations were available. *mutter*)

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

An age for all nations to be available would definitely be great!

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

It's really easy to mod up an all-nations game. I whipped one up for my SP enjoyment, though it lacks most nation descriptions.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

I have seen a couple of mods done for that but as far as I know they havent been publicly released.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

I like the Dawning Age a lot. Sounds very cool.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Cainehill, if early, middle, and late covered everything, then we wouldn't have early stoneage, late stoneage, new stoneage, ice age, copper age, bronze age, iron age, the Hellenistic era, the age of Rome, the Viking age, the middle ages, the late middle ages, the Cruisades, the Renaissance, the Reformation, the age of enlightenment, the industrial age, the silicon age, the space age, the modern age, 10,000 years of the future via "Orion's Belt" (neat site, try googling it)...:) And I tend to disagree about it not being thematic to expand on a theme.

There's nothing wrong per se with having a mod that includes all nations of all ages, just like there's nothing wrong per se with a wargame that includes Roman legionairres fighting Civil War units and Warhammer units on an Ridley Scott's Alien-infested Mars. I think though that time-periods of time and the passage of time, as well as the "timing" of particular movements/actions within a given battle-is indeed a very deciding factor where war and strategy are concerned.

And thanks, Sandman, I appreciate that.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Hey HoneyBadger, guess what, this is an idea I like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Though I do have some criticism (what did you expect? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)

First I'd like to point something out, and then partly withdraw it:
Is it really important to get the ability to add new ages? You can already overwrite an existing age and "make do".
*Withdrawl* However, there are limits (which I think you shuold've mentioned in the original post, because they are good reasons to allow age modding, and show a few commands which will be important for it).
I. You can't control default starting conditions (income/resources/research etc.), this isn't very important since it can be changed manually, but still should be done if age modding is implemented.
II. You can't control what independants will appear [EA has very light indeps, while LA indeps are tough. You should have the same control over your modded ages]

Regarding your vision of the ages, I really liked the concept for the uber-early era, but the uber-late era just isn't to my liking. This is purely a matter of taste, so not really something to get heated about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My vision of an uber-late era would probably be some sort of escalation of the changes in Late Era.
I only have a limited amount of time right now, so I'll try to be concise:
Pangaea is almost destroyed and to save itself turns completely to the "Dark Side", and is permenantly under a "Carrion Woods"ish effect. Population dies very rapidly, and generates freespawn in bulk, while the core of their forces is led by crazed beast lords of death and blood. (I see them as getting a national spell which bleeds the trees and the earth for blood slaves to support a blood economy) Powerful summons for blood and death (dualpathing into each other and nature).
Or perhaps make it so (impossible to do currently) their dominion kills population, but at the same time revives it as vine-spawn-drone population that can still work the mines and generate resources and tax, but will not help the enemy when conquered. (Perhaps make it so any Pangaea province that gets conquered is reset to 0 population)
Ashen Empire Ermor turns completely to the shadows, it is ruled by coroporeal shadow lords, very dark and evil. The freespawn are rare strong creatures of the dark and a few weak longdeads and the like. Their dominion spreads darkness and kills population. They have strong units and very powerful national summons.
Ulm is also enveloped in evil, vampires take over completely and use the population as "blood farms", their dominion doesn't kill population. Their units will also be very expensive yet strong [thanks to lovely vampiric traits like immortality and lifedrain]. Magic is strong blood, weak death and earth.
Rlyeh, in its insanity, manages to open a rift to their home planet, and it turns out the original Rlyeh forces were merely a scouting party, as powerful Astral Lords move through the rift and strengthen it, but also eventually succumb to the madness as well, but not before becoming the ruling and controling force behind Rlyeh.
The Atlantian god makes good on his pact, but in his distorted vision desires to return Atlantis to the sea and does so by turning them all into Undeads. The Atlantians return to life under water, but living as skeletal undead in a fashion to is very similar to what their old lifestyles were, except their skeletal bodies turn it into a mockery.
---The rest will have to wait, I really have to go to sleep if I wish to live tomorrow. Suffice it to say that I presented only one side of the barricade---

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Deleted

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

I also really like the idea for the Dawning Age. The other idea just doesn't work for me - it seems to mix and match nations around too much, and besides, screw Hoburgs.

It seems like many of the "old races" (like Yakshas) that would be more prominent in such a scenario aren't really part of the Dom 3 timeline at all - they were part of the reign of the old Pantokrator. That's what makes them all mystical and stuff. Therefore if there are such nations, they definitely ought to be declining, as the Dominions war can't really begin unless the Pantokrator is gone.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

FrankTrollman,

I like the way you think. A few comments:

The Black Coven is not as ancient as the others (or most of them).

Aren't the Shaded Lands more a place the dead go to than any kind of nation? A part of the Underworld or something like that.

I don't think titans in general ever had a nation, although the Aesir did, before they lost to the Rimtursar.

Abysians might be there as non-humanoid elemental beings.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

A final apocalyptic age, with entirely human nations, but powerful mages and priests would be good. Earth would be the dominant magic path, with around 50% of nations having it, whereas astral and blood would be relatively rare. Spies, assassins and maybe other indirect combatants (smugglers, pirates, thieves) would be common, even as indy recruitables. Sailing and inquisitors would also be common. Individual human mages and priests would be powerful, but sacred mage-priests and warrior-mages would not be common at all. Standard-bearer leaders and siege engineers would be plentiful.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Sorry, but, if I have anything to say about it, the Hoburgs stay in Late Late Age-especially since noone seems to like that the Hoburgs are taking over, because that's just telling me that I'm getting exactly the reaction I want to them, which is anger, disgust, and appaul.

They aren't there because I'm in love with them, they're present as an ENEMY-as a form of EVIL that doesn't happen to come in the form of a giant soul-sucking demon, but in the end is far worse.

Nobody I want to hang out with wants to live next door to Nazis either, but they do make excellent villains, because you don't have to morally justify killing them.

Not all the Hoburgs are that level of evil, (or evil at all, for that matter) mind you-but the other two nations should be interesting and different enough that they'll appeal to some players.

I really, really have no desire to see a humans-only age, Sandman. To me that's just not appealing in the least.

Agrajag, I'm happy to see you, I was getting lonely without you around to make my life more difficult http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif I like your ideas for Pangaea a lot, but-considering FrankTrollman's post-I'll probably use a similar set-up for the Ivy Kingdom, as far as a widespread Carrion Woods effect is concerned. The reason for this is that several spell descriptions mention a "Dark Hungry Presence In The Woods" (sounds very 'Evil-Dead', don't you agree?) in past ages, which has been lying dormant-the Ivy Kingdom fits the bill perfectly as-on the surface-the bright, green, fresh-and-growing home of the Treelords, flowers, and hippies, and underneath, a dark, deep, powerful alien force (don't mess with Mother Nature). Ivy Kingdom's magic will be purely Nature and Blood (summercamp at Crystal Lake tchu-tchu-tchu, ahh ahh ahh). Pangaea I've decided will indeed appear in the Late, Late Age (Age of Wisdom!) as a swamp-related nation with bog-mummy units and summons. Magic will be nature, death, water, and quite possibly blood.

Frank, I need a little time to fully digest your post, but thank you very much! I'll do my best to fit in the The Black Coven, the Ivy Kingdom, the Celestial Symphony, the Realm of the Yazatas, the Sidhe Court, and a Vanheim-nation (which will probably boil down to the Aesir). Providing ofcourse I can shoe-horn them in, in an aesthetically pleasing way.

As a side-note, I do want to mod in non-player Nations, how feasable is this currently?

Agrajag, that's what I had in mind-making a mod is just making a mod, it wouldn't allow me to create a framework for others to add their ideas into, without having to be "in to my mod". Certain things should be globally different from one age to another, like the independents you mention.

R'lyeh I don't quite have a handle on yet (question: does anyone? C'thulu F'tagn?), but I do use a race called the Yoth (Nerfix came up with the name) in a mod who are to illithids what jotuns are to humans. That's a nation in my Lovecraftian Mod, though, which is mostly "Outside of Time and Space". Muahahahahahaha!

Anyway, thanks everybody. I'm really pleased to be getting lots of feedback on this thread.

Re: Possibility of Brand-New Ages
 

Just because I started detailing my vision for uber-late age, I think I'll finish it.
Even though there's no one to implement it into the game and it will just remain ideas. (Maybe someone will like one of my ideas and mod it in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)

Abysia undergoes another change, one Abysian afraid of the strength of the Humanbreds manages to breed a superior brand of Demonbreds. The demonbreds manage to multiply rapidly and war against the humanbred, completely annihilating them, but the strength of the true-blooded abysians is not restored, instead they serve as sages and advisors to the ruling body of demonbreds. The demonbreds use vicious tactics of stealth and subterfuge, and use their strength and flying ability to attempt to conquer the world in order to sacrifice the population of the entire world to open up the Inferno and bring the demon realm to the world. Lots of blood, and quite a bit of fire.
The humans of Agartha were not strong enough in magic to preserve the caves of the ancient Agarthans, and they collapsed in an earthquake, burying Agartha completely and eliminating them from the map.
Perhaps a nation of buried dead rise from that?
---I'm tired again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I've got some more ideas I'll write down later--