Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Big fleet with superb supply and full ordinance against a pathetic enemy in a goof off game (to learn why crap like this happens) and they retreat from combat. Can someone please tell me why?

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

2 ideas at first.

You say pathetic enemy. Was it your entire fleet versus some fighters? perhaps your ships don't have weapons capable of targeting fighters.

Are you sure your ships (or fleet) didn't get an order along the lines of don't get hurt?

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Also common: Buggered strategy.

Take a look at the empire options, strategies section at the bottom.
If the strategies have null entries at the bottom, things are going wrong.

Delete the strategies and "New" some more (don't copy a bad one)

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Smart crews perhaps?

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

The fleets have an arrowhead formation, and a strategy of optimal firing range. They went threw the system behind them blasting planets and small fleets with no problem. Got to their current system, retreat for no apparent reason. I sent them back to resupply fully, send them back to this system, they retreat for no reason. I looked under optimal firing range strategies and do not see anything that would cause the fleet to suddenly start retreating, I don't see any 'empty' or 'null' entries, not sure if you meant literally?

Oh, and no fighters involved but I have plenty of PD. The weird thing is the fleet was going along just fine and then, pffffft..

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Did you sign any new treaties with a No Bombardment clause?

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Nope, no treaties at all.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

"They are cowards" - Worf

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Interestingly, this is a problem with the ship "FF-rep-1 0002". It has no weapons what so ever, and it is listed as the first ship in the arrowhead formation. Being the 'leader', all the other ships follow it. Having no weapons, it retreats combat at once. Put another ship at the tip of the arrow and they'll attack as they should.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

How do you put another ship as the leader?

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

It's just the uppermost ship on the list, i.e. the ship first added to the task force. If it is destroyed, then the formation leader becomes the next on the list. So perhaps in the previous battle he lost his last 'leader' ship, making the no-weapon ship take over. At any rate, in this case he can just remove that ship from the task force.

*edited*

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

I posted about this before, but there is no way to specify the leader of a fleet or task force. This is one of the negative consequences of not being able to do that.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

I have tried removing and then adding a ship to a task force. When I do it the ships are listed alphabetically. How are you moving a ship to the bottom just by removing it? Is there another option in Empire Settings I am not selecting or need unselected? Ok I just doubled checked it again to make sure I wasn't nuts. If I remove a ship then add it back in it is set in the list alphabetically. Unless you change the name of the ship so it will be sorted first there is no way to set the leader.

StarJack: Go into your fleet and make sure the ships aren't set as "Core". If they are and the lead ship runs the others will run too. I think your lead ship has a problem in supplies/ammo/somewhere. Another trick to try is set your strategy in Empire options to break formation. If all else fails try that then see if all your ships run. If they are breaking formation then running there is another problem. If that is the case you will need to upload the save so I can look at it.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Oops apologies for repeating you Slick. You are correct, unless you manually change the name you can not set leader. For example I have a fleet of four ships:

Crappy 0001
Crappy 0002
Crappy 0003
Crappy 0004

I want Crappy 0003 to be leader so I will have to select "Rename" then set it as something so it will be sorted first; such as aCrappy 0003. When i am done Crappy 0003 will be the leader and my fleet will list like this:

aCrappy 0003
Crappy 0001
Crappy 0002
Crappy 0004

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

At best that is a workaround. This needs to be fixed. Additionally, when another order (Join Fleet, which is currently also broken and not working) is fixed, this issue will raise its head again. BTW, I am not criticizing your workaround, it does at least work until the leader is killed.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Hmm, take a look at the screenshot I attached. That doesn't look alphabetically sorted..?

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Is there any positive proof that the first ship listed acts as the "Leader" ???

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

No, I'm pretty sure its just the first ship added to the fleet/task force.

Break Formation commands should take care of the issue, though.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

So how did you do it? I certainly can't get that to happen. What mod are you playing? I will try looking into the files to see if it is set somewhere.

I can pull ships out and place them back all day long and it will always sort mine.

Edit: Raapys do me a favor and zip and attach your save game please.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

The attachment is in the first post, PES.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

That is StarJack's save game. I wanted Raapy's to try and figure out why his doesn't sort and mine does. Nothing I have tried so far stops the sorting.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Maybe they are sorted by construction number, I know this was an issue in SEIV, that all items constructed have a number assigned telling what order it was constructed in.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Actually, the screenshot is from Starjack's save. Guess the game might have some sorting issues with capital letters or some such, which would explain why other people's fleets sort alphabetically while his doesn't. There's definitely some sorting going on there though, since ships removed and put back into the fleet will appear at the same place that they were previously. At any rate, the game seems to always give the uppermost ship on the list the title 'leader', then they're assigned Core 1,2,3,4,..., etc. and unfortunately, weaponless ships can *never* be prevented from auto-retreating when under computer control, regardless of which strategy they have, which is why Starjack's weaponless leader ship, and therefor the whole fleet, will run as soon as combat starts.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Oh well there goes my hopes it was a line that could be moded... So as Slick pointed out my fix is only a temporary stop-gap solution. This still needs corrected by Aaron.

For some reason I am not very pleased to be proven correct on this issue... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Yeah, he must've missed out the 'Leader' button while he was making it. He needs to add that button, and change the current "Core", "Escort" and "Picket" buttons so that they display a list of the role number ( i.e. this ship < insert random ship > should be core #53( which in turn decides its place in the formation) ).

He could just give us the ability to manipulate the order of the ships, but that's a much too dirty solution I think.

At any rate, so as not to confuse StarJack: To avoid having your fleet retreat as soon as combat begins, always make sure a ship with (functional) weapons on it is the uppermost on the task force list. Put your non-combat ships in another task force.

Speaking of which, there should probably be implemented some sort of 'retreat feedback'. Imagine new players coming over these problems. There's, what, at least 5 factors that can have ships retreat for what could appear to be 'no reason' for people new to the game? Supply, ordnance, unable to target enemy with available weapons, anti-bombardment pact, weaponless fleet leader, etc. All these lead to retreating ships without giving a single hint as to which one of the factors did it.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

The order itself works (the AI uses it all the time) but the UI for players to use it is broken.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Is there a way (minister, maybe?) to get this to work?


When I first got the game, I looked at all the new commands and this one was my favorite. It would be so awesome to get this to work. I also wonder if it will come with its own problems as to which task force the new ship will enter and/or if we'll get a log message when the ship joins the fleet so that we can reconfigure the fleet if desired.

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

The UI problem for human players is that the order is only available when you have a fleet selected and not when you have a ship selected. I'll remind Aaron again about this one since it's an easy fix.

The join fleet order is used by several AI ministers for different design types - it's an option when the ship has nothing much else to do (ie not to be used as an explorer or stuff like that).

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

That was my first thought! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Not sure if I told you before, Momma was a gorgeous girl!

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Many Thanks! I'll say it for the 5th or 6th time, this game would die without you kind folks helping out! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Here, you guys deserve a laugh!

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1734043

Re: Why does this fleet retreat?
 

Da crack spider Rulz!