\"Master of Magic\" Mod
 

I wanted to share some screenshots of my next nation mod that I plan to release following Haida Gwaii. Master of Magic: Dark Elves adds a new playable race to Dominions 3. The graphics are all from Master of Magic, and the race has been translated over to Dominions 3 as authentic as Dominions 3 will allow, with me only adding spell paths to Dark Elf Priests and Warlocks because there were no spell paths in Master of Magic for standard units.

This mod, being a representation of another race from another game, will probably not be balanced with the standard game, and is rather for nostalgic purposes. Currently it plays well versus the AI.

Take a look at the screenshot and tell me what you think so far. Does it bring a nostalgic tear to your eye if you played Master of Magic? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...arkelfarmy.jpg

Fireballs...
 

Shouldn't they be tossing fireballs in the screenshot? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Fireballs...
 

Actually the Dark elf Warlocks launched doombolts instead of fireballs. And I have added Doombolt into the game as an evocation 2 spell restricted to the Dark Elves.

All of the units have an attack called "Magic blast" that represents their ranged magical attack in Master of Magic. It does weak damage, 4 ammo just like the orginals =).

If you look at the indies, you can see the floating numbers above their head where they had just received a volley of magic blasts. I am using the elf shot animation and sounds at the moment for the magic blast, but it seems a tad too sissy, even for Dark Elves.

Re: Fireballs...
 

I should add, the units in the screenshot are Spearmen and swordsmen being led by a nightmare which is standing in the very far left of the screen.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Wow. That's something interesting. Though Warlocks without Doom Bolts won't be the same http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Edit. Oops. It seems there will be Doom Bolts after all. Sweet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

The warlocks HAVE doombolts. I modded the spell in for them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Its an evocation 2 spell that does more damage than the standard firebolts, frostbolts etc and scales with the Mage's skill level.

Bah, posted before your edit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Hmm honestly the black outline looks way out of order and blend in no way with the rest of the game units.
But other than that, it sounds interesting.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Yeah, I have no intention of modifying the graphics, as I want to keep them as close to the Master of Magic versions as possible. When I tried removing the inherent black outline, it thinned the units out a bit, making them less distinguishable.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

I tried removing the black outline again, I was able to without any problem, but they do not look like master of magic units anymore. In master of magic, that black outline was noticeable and taking it away changes the units appearance a bit more than I expected. I will post a screenshot for comparison.

In this screenshot, we see some Dark Elves casting their magic blasts at a Klackon force who are about to pwnzer them. (The blue swirlies are the magic blasts mid flight)

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...esklackons.jpg

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

This looks freakin' awesome! I was ecstatic when I discovered Dominions, because I've been waiting ten years to find a fantasy strategy game better/as good as Master of Magic...

Are you going to mod in the whole repetoire of dark elf units?

I'll happily beta test it for you as well.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

I am going to do all the races and all the spells I possibly can. Before you get too excited though, understand that for instance the dark elves comes to a whopping total of 8 new units. Since I am trying to stay close to Master of Magic, they are not balanced with Dom3 at all.

So far I have the following nations completely done:

Dark Elves
Klackons
Barbarians
Trolls

The Klackons only had five units so this gives you an idea of how much less variety there was in Master of Magic.

My plan to make them more diverse is adding as many of the Master of Magic spells as possible and restricting them to the Master of Magic races I mod in. I am hoping in a patch or two Illwinter will add the fixed name command for heroes, so we can have Zaldron the sage and Bshan the dervish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Sooo cool. Since noone else seems to have said it yet, thank you for taking the time to do this.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

I like the non black outlines more, it just blends in with the rest a lot better. Im curious to see how they will fare against real nations.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

So far they fair rather good against the real nations AI versus AI. The AI has a hard time casting the proper spells and such, so the fights usually come down to massed mundane armies which the Master of Magic nations are all about at this point.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

AAAhh nostalgia ... Note that there was much less units choice in MoM that Dom but still there was a good number of summons, some of them "national", and lots of spells that have no equivalent.
Some won't be doable to port as in the original, such as all "unit enchantments" that gave special abilities to standard units (such as magic weapons, flight, invisibility), not only for a battle but "permanent" as long as you paid mana upkeep.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Looks great, I'll be following this mod eagerly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thanks!

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Me too. MoM rules, and no game so far has managed to beat it (even Dom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif).

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Burn the heretic! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Sorry, but IMHO no one has managed to beat the classic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

I felt the same way as Aku666, but as I mod more and more nations into Dom3 from Master of Magic, it is easy to see how much more complex and how deep the Dominions series really is compared to Master of Magic.

It is also worth pointing out that Dominions 3 and Master of Magic are so different, that a comparison of the two really does not do them justice.


Here are the main differences as I see them-----------------

Dominions 3 is an army building game where the goal of the player is to create varied armies of different shapes and sizes to put against the AI or other players creations.

Dominions 3's only area of advancement is magic. This magic is used to augment the armies being fielded or to make the travel of those armies easier by weakening the enemies ability to field armies.

Master of Magic on the otherhand is a game of advancement, Hero progression and to a much smaller extent than Dominions 3, army construction.

Master of Magic becomes so personal to the player because your wizard progresses in his power, as well as your heroes. In Dominions 3 a bit of this is lost, the commander leveling and Pretender progression is there, but it is alot less personal and indepth.

After working on this mod, I have really gained an appreciation of just how different these two games really are, although they did not seem it to me when I first started working on the project.

Therefore, Dominions3 is my favorite strategy/army building game of all time, and Master of Magic is my favorite strategy/Hero/wizard development game of all time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Another one of the big differences is that Master of Magic has city building and development. Sure, it might not seem like a big deal now, when, if you're like me, you've played through as every race several times, but I remember quite well the first time I built that pegasus stable... In Master of Magic, with good planning you can locate a city by an adamantium vein and create an army with which no one can compete!

Originally I played Master of Magic on a 486sx and I also remember quite well the first time I played it on a pentium, watching that same pegasus' head bob up and down at hyper speed......

Heh heh, Dominions also has working multiplayer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Yes, you're right. But I wasn't comparing these two great games. I was merely saying, that I had more fun playing MoM years ago, than I have playing Dom right now (it doesn't mean I don't have fun with Dom, I love it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif).
I didn't try modding it but maybe later, when the exams are over and I'll have some more time, I'll try.
Ps. I don't like multiplayer games, the only one I've played is Quake and that was a long time ago ;P

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

Y'know I have to agree with you, I had more fun with Master of Magic than any other game...with the possible exceptions of XCOM UFO defence, the original HOMM & Masters of Orion 2. For Dominions 3 to be in their exalted company is quite the honor.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

I've got an idea as following along the line of thinking that Dom3 does not give the same "personalized experience" as MoM (where your wizard progresses in power, along with your heroes).

First of all: can someone confirm for me the theory that it's possible to mod in spells which cost from 10-15 path levels in the 8 paths of magic to cast them? As far as I know, no spell requires 10 or more Paths currently, but it's possible to Empower up to level 15 in any given Path.

If this can be confirmed, you could then use Empowerment in a heavily modified mod (it'd have to be heavily modified for the sake of balance, and because many spells should to be added to retain interest in gameplay) wherein your Pretender (or potentially others, but mainly your Pretender) could cast spells requiring said Pretender to be Empowered to Path levels 11-15. In order to do this, you'd probably want to eliminate or move the Wish spell and other high-level spells, and possibly make less accessible path level enhancing magic items, as well as adding to, and adjusting, the current spell-list so that spells go from Level 1-15 in Path Power instead of the current 1-9.

This would feasably enable Pretender "progression" in a meaningful way and potentially make Empowerment an integral and vital part of the game.

As far as I know, it should be possible.
 

...but if you make it harder to boost paths with items, and remove Wish... how do you expect anybody to justify the cost to reach level *15* ?

The number of design points to reach the upper magic levels tends to be pretty harsh, at least in the vanilla game with no base magic level of 4+. The number of gems for empowerment at that level might be better thrown into summons or globals.

Re: As far as I know, it should be possible.
 

I don't think the pretender as an AD&D character that has to lvl up.
Having lvl 15 in a path can make the casting of a lvl 9 spell in battle cost less fatigue and adds penetration because of the exceeding difference.

Re: As far as I know, it should be possible.
 

I think you're right, Taqwus, especially about the boosting items, but do you think Wish should stay where it is at level 9 astral?

Manuk, just suggesting a way to simulate a Pretender that grows in power over time. Level 15 is, I believe, already in the game, so I'm just harnessing what's already present and exploitable.

Re: As far as I know, it should be possible.
 

Well... let's say you absolutely max-out initial magic in a path. Level 10. No pretender starts with more than 3 in a path, so that's 7 levels of points. Isn't that something like 8 x (1+2...+7) = 224 design points, even assuming that you're taking an S10 Oracle (0 initial cost, S3 start). Pretty hefty.

If memory serves, empowerment cost is 30 gems for level 1 to 2, and goes up by 15 per level.

So level 10 to 11 is 30+(9*15) = 165 gems.
Level 11 to 12, 180 gems
Level 12 to 13, 195 gems.
Level 13 to 14, 210 gems.
Level 14 to 15, 225 gems.

That's 975 pearls. Maybe fewer -- say, 2 points of boosters are still available, but you're still committing hundreds of gems to a single commander (and in this case, one that moves only via Teleport and has few equipment slots) who might be Feebleminded by an assassin with the Staff of Kurgi and winged shoes, mass Astral Geysered into Perpetual Doom Horror Snacktime, or sent to Inferno/Cocyctus with blood magic. That sort of gem count might be better used in summons; it'd buy five Angelic Choirs led by very strong Seraphim, for instance. Or a completely demented number of Astral Windows to monitor an enemy empire. So there are obvious questions as to what would be worth that expense and risk.

Wish balance depends on what else is being modded. If you're adding monstrously magically strong pretenders, for instance, Wish should be expensive because those pretender types are going to be wished-for.

Re: As far as I know, it should be possible.
 

Well, what would be worth that expense? Considering that the whole magic system would basically have to be redone, what effect in a game-aside from instantly winning or anything that would guarantee a win-would be worth that kind of empowering?

Re: As far as I know, it should be possible.
 

Just an update on the progress of this mod. I have added 8 nations from Master of Magic into the game, 6 more left woot! All that is missing from the nations that are currently in are descriptions, better start sites, and a creative way of naming the nations that ties into original game.

After the nations are finished, I plan to add all the heroes from master of magic as being available to certain nations, I plan to add some wizard pretenders to represent the wizards in master of magic, and finally I intend to add as many of the spelld as possible that will translate well to Dominions.

Re: As far as I know, it should be possible.
 

Wow, that's a grand plan you got there. I wish you luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Ps. I wonder who will get Torin http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

I tend to disagree, unless you count building up SCs as "armies", too.

The biggest difference I see is the city building, yes, and the ability to move your units yourself during the combat turns. Some people heavily depended on that: One cheap tactic of players with the Troll nation was to hit+run in battle, waiting until the units are completely regenerated. Would have been too boring to me, but there are some other situations where the order in which your units attacked or control you had over your heroes in combat was essential - you could still hand the fighting over to the AI after you were pretty much done.

HoneyBadger, I don't think your "pretenders have to empower/wish" idea is feasible in any way, because those strategies would be too costly to have a heavy influence on the game. The research needed till you reach level 15 alone would kill the idea, but you'd better be off to sink the gems into summons and items for SCs, too, instead of empowering so much.

Dom3 and MoM are similar, but just too different - I have to agree that I liked playing MoM more, too, because I am a die-hard fan of the original Civilization, too.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

I wouldn't worry too much about making a total conversion of Dom3. It's close enough just to have only mom nations, modify a couple of maps to use mom-unit poptypes (like only the basic units of halflings and whatnot) and to add in mom spells (maybe eventually you could remove some Dom3 spells entirely, leaving you with basically the mom selection).

Even just adding in mom nations would be cool, of course.

Re: \"Master of Magic: Dark Elves\" Mod
 

@Ich

I would consider building super combatants part of the army building process. I still believe that this game is about army structuring and movement more than anything else, while Master of Magic was about hero progression, city development and gaining power with your wizard.

There are a bit of these elements in both games, but really I still think the games are too different to compare side by side.

@Sombre

I don't intend to convert dominions 3. My plans are to add the races from master of magic, add the heroes (Although I will not be able to assign them fixed names), add a few wizard pretenders, and add as many of the spells as I can that will translate over decently.

I will not be taking anything out of dominions 3 to accommodate this mod beyond a few middle era or late era nations. (The mod will be set in the early era.) Basically I plan on making Master of Magic a part of the current game.

Eventually I plan to incorporate all my favorite fantasy strategy games into Dominions, doing away with the middle and late era, and having 79 nations in the early era http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.