SFTC Lite
 

This thread is for any discussion concerning the SFTC-Lite version of the SFTC.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

The SFTC and SFTC-Lite are now in the Scenarios and Mods sub-forum.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

It surprises me that the full version has been downloaded much more than the Lite version. I think most non-hardcore fans will find the Lite version more to their tastes. The only real difference between the two is that the Lite version components progress in the SE5 fashion. If you are not used to SE4 and/or are not looking for that "hard core 'by the book'" feel I think you may enjoy the Lite version. I'm not trying to chase off potential players. More like I want to provide a guiding hand to help choose the version that best fits you.

Please enjoy and don't be shy about dropping comments.
PE Shang

Re: SFTC Lite
 

I suspect most people think the lite version has less graphics, and that most people have high speed connections and don't download lite versions.

Maybe if you named it "classic" instead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SFTC Lite
 

If I were to name it Classic it may make people think I built this on SF versions 1, 2, 3, or Imperial. Not a good name. Lite is the best name for it. It is diminished in substance as referring to the components.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

I have updated the heading description to clarify the difference between these two version of the same mod:

SFTC: The components progress in an SE4 fashion; that is they are Generational. This version structures progression and allows retro-construction of ships, bases, fighters, etc.

SFTC-Lite: The components progress in an SE5 fashion; that is they are Progressive. There is less structure in progression and no retro-construction.

Q: Ok PES but what is "retro-construction"?

A: Lets say we are allies and I am two "tech levels" above you. You are in a war and want to field ships with better technology for an added advantage to your forces. You pay me to design and build the best ships I can. I do and sell them to you as "fleet quality ships for my empire". In truth the ships are old technology for me even if they are new technology for you. That is retro-building. To the best of my knowledge this can't be done in SE5; unless I missed a toggle button.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

You can retro with SE5, but in stock its a pain in the *** (you have to make a "dummy" ship design with EVERY component on it, repeat when you get tech upgrades).

In a mod, you can include additional components that just have a different level progression. Mine is including "prototype" (+3 levels, 300% cost) and "out of date" (-3 levels, 20% cost) components for example..

Re: SFTC Lite
 

How do you manage to select components that were developed three levels ago and place them on a new design? Or do you mean the components themselves are linear in progression. So retro-construction for you would be deducting (for example) 300% from a component that has advanced 100% over each of the last three levels. Poof instant -3 levels. That still isn't really retro, even if that is very close. Also with the SFTC you can apply mounts to retro-built ships. So if you want an old style missile launcher that has the latest missile (mount) you can do that. You could also build the most advanced missile launcher with an old missile (mount) or any number of combinations. I would term what you are doing with the mounts as something else. Definitely not retro-construction; more like reversed engineering.

Edited: Also keep in mind by retro-construction I am not saying "use an old saved design". I mean something from scratch. The P-D Empire wants a Light Cruiser built with the best I have and built to their specifications and layout. Fine tell me what you want and I will make it fresh just for you, not happy want something adjusted? Hay no problem. Saving designs of old tech is still close but just not there yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SFTC Lite
 

No, I mean there are three components. No subtlety at *all*, but it works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif The reason I did it like that was the Prototypes. They're there to give the player an idea of what he'll get when he researches a field, and they actually show up before that's researched.

Say, Laser Weapons:
Research Physics 1, and you get Laser Weapons tech area and the Prototype Laser.
Research Laser Weapons and the prototype goes up to the next level, and the standard laser becomes available.

I could probably do a similar effect with mounts, but I haven't tried that. The tricky part is getting them to respect the level formulas.

By saving designs, I mean do this:
Make a hull. Cram one of every component that fits onto it. Copy that hull and lay it out as you like when the time comes. It actually won't work as I was hoping, because you couldn't add additional old components to it.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

Antique designing?

Can't you pick up one of the low level components and Shift-click to duplicate more of them?

Re: SFTC Lite
 

I don't think there is a way to pick a low level component unless it is already in a design, hence the dummy designs.

The right answer here is a change to the design screen to allow picking not-the-latest components.

edit: you are also severely limited on what you can do while you are "holding" a component.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

SJ: you can, and that makes the concept workable. Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Slick: True, but I can't do anything about that.. Thus, emailed MM about it, then set to finding workarounds.

Kind of like how Pirates and Nomads really needed point generation from components, but SJ found a workaround that did what was needed until those abilities were added.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

Ahh, that's a cool concept and neat way to approach the problem. It also avoids the problem the SFTC has. Which is every version of every component is listed. Saving the design then clicking to copy and change the layout is much closer to what I have in the SFTC. The only diffrence I see between the two is that you have to save the "generic" design for every size ship. Even then I don't see how that will work if you want to create them on hulls that will be developed. Isn't the ship layout stripped clean when you reselect a new hull size? Wouldn't that also have the effect of stripping your "generic" design clean preventing a retro-build? I can't think of a reason why you would want to retro-build a more advanced hull but you can still do it in SFTC. Maybe you want to make an opponent think you have a higher tech ally that is building the stripped hulls for you. I like the approach you took P-D. I also like SJ's term for it; "Antique Designing", as opposed to "Retro-Construction". As I mentioned in another thread we are pioneering new ground here. We get to coin the terms that players in future years will throw around as standard vocabulary. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif What a wonderful privilege! This is like a Golden Age for us modders.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

You can't change the ship size, so you have to do it for every hull size as well. Messy. Copying a hull does NOT clear the components though, so it works.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

Sorry about the confusion it is my fault. I didn't mean when you copy I meant when you change hull sizes after selecting the copy button for the generic design. When you do that it clears the design. So your idea will only work if every possible hull that can be built is available for building from the very start. Otherwise (using the SFTC as an example) You wouldn't be able to place a Missile Launcher on a Battleship because the Missile Launcher will have been replaced by a better version before then. You see in SFTC you can take any hull you have developed and create a new design using any component that you have ever developed. So you could take a High Tech Level 16 Juggernaut and fill it with Missile Launchers even though that is a starting weapon.

That is what I am calling Retro-Construction. What you are describing is what I think SJ's term is best suited for. Antique Designing. You have the antique (the old saved design) and now you are just making changes in it. You aren't creating new construction (newly developed hull sizes) with retro components.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

I'm just about done with the next patches for this one too. Is there any input from anyone?

Re: SFTC Lite
 

First patch for the Lite version sees many changes to update to more of a SFTC feel. System generation is still on the to-do list but is lower down. AI is next on the list but the full version will be getting worked on before this version. Enjoy:

Version 0.11-B 28 January 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Changed -- Prototype Fighter Gun component name to Fighter Gun.
2. Fixed -- Formula error in Fighter Gun Component.
3. Changed -- Opening picture for atmosphere and planet types to more clearly indicate which are Not Used.
4. Fixed -- X-Ray Laser Detonation Chamber was not registering when added to a vehicle.
5. Replaced -- All bmp’s with Mineral and Radioactive icons to reflect new “MC” and Personnel icons.
6. Fixed -- New Empires were not using the strategies included with the SFTC-Lite.
7. Changed -- Intelligence Font color changed to black (0, 0, 0) to reduce attention on these numbers.
8. Changed -- DataLink and Improved DataLink so only 1 may be mounted per vehicle.
9. Added -- Personnel points for vehicles.
10. Changed -- Organics costs for vehicles to reflect crew consumption rate of Personnel divided by 2 rounded up.
11. Corrected -- A few entries in the VehicleSizes.txt reflected incorrect information.
12. Changed -- References to kT have been changed to “HS” or “tn” or left as “kT’ depending on line usage in MainStrings.txt.
13. Changed -- Select references to “Minerals” and “Radioactives” to “MC” and “Personnel”.
14. Added -- University facility type.
15. Changed -- facilities to reflect a work force.
16. Updated -- HomeworldStartingFacilities.txt.
17. Changed -- Organics Farm Facility to Protein Processing Plant.
18. Changed -- Some flavor text in MainsStrings.txt.
19. Corrected -- Assorted type-o’s in GovernmentTpes.txt.
20. Added -- Ability to “build” in personnel points to facilities and components.
21. Changed -- Organics build rate reflected SE5 Stock style; now reflects SFTC style.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

Not to be overly critical, but you've managed to create a 2 page thread without even stating name of your mod, much less telling us what it is or what it's about. What does SFTC even stand for?

Re: SFTC Lite
 

It's certainly not being overly critical. The rest of the info you are asking about is located in two other threads, not counting the one that produced the name and opening logo for this Mod. I didn't see the point in repeating the info a third time but I will if it helps you and anyone else out in any manner.

The name of the Mod is the SFTC-Lite, pretty simple it's in the subject of the posts and the name of the thread. You will notice around the forum that naming the thread after the name of the Mod is standard procedure.

The full information on the SFTC is located in the thread named SFTC; however, I think its rude to send people on a post chase so I will cover the essence here.

SFTC stands for Solar Flare Total Conversion. If you are not aware a Mod is an adjustment to the SE5 Stock game. So when you play a Mod you will see anything from a few changes to many; however, the essence of Stock will still be there. The Balance Mod is a perfect example of a Mod. A Total Conversion is as the name implies a complete re-write. There is nothing left of Stock. The game fundamentals are still there (i.e. warp points) but nothing else remains. This TC is based off of an old board game I played years back called StarFire 3rd Edition. I took the concept of it and translated it into an SE5 format. Trying to describe what that means is just too much to go into. The infrastructure, hull sizes, colonies, simply to much for any single post to cover.

The SFTC comes in two forms. The first is the full blown hard-core version which allows options such as retro-construction of ships. The primary factor to this version is that the components progress in an SE4 style. The SFTC-Lite follows the SFTC except the components progress in a SE5 manner. Put another way in the SFTC there are three forms of ship engines each level one. In the SFTC-Lite there is only one form of ship engine with three levels. Each one is directly comparable to the other despite the different ways in which they progress. that proved to be a real challenge from a modding perspective. Many iif statements! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

So where is the SFTC and SFTC-Lite? Well I pulled them both from here. Between the two there were over 60 downloads yet not a single report of anything wrong. This was in spite of the fact that I clearly stated they were both open betas and I needed help finding and fixing the problems. I thought that I could get at least one person to help while I continued work on getting the parts that had not been implemented working. Such as the planet sizes, stellar objects, and AI to name a few or three. By pulling them I didn't have to worry about keeping my progress and patches flowing. I didn't have to worry about avoiding "game breakers" as it doesn't bother me in the slightest to restart.

So does that cover it? If not try searching for SFTC or let me know here and I will link the main thread for you.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

Thank you. Look forward to the restart.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

PES, I noticed that Gas Giants and Ice planets are not allowed as homeworlds; however, I one of the games I loaded up had my homeworld as a Gas Giant.

Also, No Atmosphere planets are not allowed. Is there a reason why this is, perhaps canon?

Long shot here, but are you planning on doing anything with the canon races. If so I think that the religious racail trait would fit nicely with races such as the Thebans and Rigelians. Not sure about the organic, temporal, or crystaline. Perhaps this could be adjusted and modded to account for the characteristic racial advantages of the avain races in terms of fighter usage (access to speciallized strategies or fighter weaponry) and the bugs ability to turn captured races into resources and obnoxious bonus to shipyard rates (temporal shipyards into bug mass production assembly yards) and a huge reduction in maintence. A maintence reduction component that makes maintaing those huge fleets not such a management issue.

Re: SFTC Lite
 

Oh lots of questions; http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif let me get some free time and I will address them plus that wonderful list you sent me by PM. I can't thank you enough for the critique. Between sub-ing and CN and LW I have been to busy to work on the Mod. I don't want you to think I am ignoring you here. One answer I can give you is the one about the HW on a gas giant, that is an old issue dating back from the days of SE4. The game tries to place you by finding your atmosphere type first. If it finds a match it which is in the same sector as a larger body it will place you on the larger body. I don't think Aaron is ever going to get that problem fixed. I will address everything on more detail in my next response. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif