LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Hello all! Inspired by a recent post (strangely enough about LA Marignon and Abyssia) that mentioned sample builds for LA Ulm, I wanted the take the chassis for a ride.

I wanted a pretender with enough magical diversity that fully item'd up would be able to summon many things and forge many items that the nationals, by their crappy magic, could not.

I decided on a Master Alchemist with about 3 Blood/Death, 4 Earth/Nature (maybe one of those was a three, I forget) and 1 Fire/Air (because I had leftover points). I had Turmoil 2, Prod 3, Luck 3, Growth 1, and Drain 2. Dom 5 or 6, and finally dormant. Many have liked Turmoil 3, but I need the income, this whole game I have been cash strapped, as the national troops ain't cheap, and I'm not pursuing an all Vampire Utterdark strat. Overall, though it has appreared to me to be a solid build. I have been able to boost enough to summon Father Illearth, Lamia Queens, Arch Devil, and I am loving Cross-Breeding (this is my first blood nation ever).

Ok, enough intro, now questions:

Blood hunting: I have a blood enabled fortune tellers (the counts are researching and summoning, I don't want to waste them on such a menial task)in about 7 nearby provinces. Do people usually have more? Like one in every province? Also, do you build a bunch of labs for this purpose, or do you just move the slaves around alot? Oh, they all have sanguine rods.

Why do Zweihanders get so much good press? Stats wise, it seems the much cheaper regular shielded infantry of Ulm are comparable, and are better against arrows (crossbows?).

I rolled over Marignon and Midgard without much trouble (oh, this is SP by the way) but now, despite being on top in all the stats (but army size), Ermor is throwing unlimited troops at me. I've got a string of provinces that are defended well enough to hold them at bay (I regulary take out armies of ~500 undead without any losses) but if I try to move a force against them I get mauled. I have discovered that the heavy infantry is crap against the undead, so I have made mostly rangers, whose arrows do a lot of damage, a lot of priests set on banish, and some 1st tiers with astral gems and the astral spell that kills undead. Besides priest spam, any surefire counter-undead methods for magic availabilty LA Ulm?

Finally, I am using my Father Illearth and Arch Devil as thug/SC's - that is, I fight with them alone. The AD is naked as of now, but FI has horned helmet, cloak of shadows, amultet of resiliance, earth boots, firebrand, black steel kite shield (I had it around, I know I could do better w. this) and ring of the warrior. Any better suggestions for clothing these two fine gentlemen?

Sorry for the length of the post. It just seems some people here instinctively know how to maximize each nation and I'm trying to develop my mind into that mode, but for now I learn best by trying strategies from the experts.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

For blood hutning taxes set to 0 and 5-6 levels worth of blood hunting(count a dousing rod as 1 level) per 5k_ population province is good(try not to hunt provinces with huge pops or pops lower than 5k). For father illearth swap the shield for a charcoal shield and the ring of the warrior for a lucky pendant, also consider swapping the horned helm for a horror helm.

For the arch devil try dual swords of swiftness, horror helm, some good armour(i like chainmail of displacement), boots of quickness/boots of the messenger, ring of regen/pendant of luck and amulet of resilence. I like to script him to phoenix pyre, fire shield attack rear but if you havnt got pyre try fire shield, a fire evocation, attack rear. He gets 8 attacks per turn at 2 squares(so 6 human sized enemies) with very nice strength and attack.

You should bump up your blood economy, get some vampire thugs with a weapon(the more attacks/AoE the better), a charcoal shield, horror helm, heavy armour, boots of quickness, lucky pendant and whatever you find helps(the boots and helm arent neccesary). If they have lifedrain(im not sure if they do or not) then forget the weapon. These guys arent incredibly tough so either send them out in groups or preferably accompanying armies(they cant get surrounded and reduce losses)

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

There are too many uneead to deal with in melee, so I'd actually say that having multiple attacks is useless. Sword of Swiftness isn't bad, but Faithful would be very good. Boots of the messenger/amulet of resilience/girdle of might for reinvigoration would keep him alive. Phoenix Pyre never hurts but if the undead kill him once he's probably already unconscious, so it only protects against spells. Fire Shield and damage shields in general are very good. Horror Helm doesn't help against mindless undead.

Flame Eruption could be interesting. Immolation too.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

I always forget about faithful and i wasnt specifically thinking of the undead ermorians when i was writing that but good points endo.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Thanks for the suggestions!

I have also been sending my mage/spies around to instill uprisings. It is very effective (though not with Ermor).

This game is getting farcical. I have Ermor down to their capital and I cannot take it. I attacked with ~500 units and they were defending with about 7 dusk elders and <50 minor undead. They routed me and killed my hero/prophet just by casting morale spells I guess. I have been at this for hours and the "stupid AI" is really letting me have it. When you can't win at 10-1 odds, something is wrong. I even had lots of mindless thralls, and they supposedly have amazinf morale, but after a few spells they took tail like everyone else.

Father Illearth is pretty worthless now. He became crazily injured, and then died, but when I re-cast the spell he came back still cursed and with all his injuries! Is it just me or doesn't it make sense that things that regenerate should also heal afflictions? For some reason boosting items no longer work on him either. He's just sitting in my capital researching because his injuries make him suck to bad to do anything esle. Is there any way (besides say, Gift Of Health, Arco Priestess, etc) to get those afflictions away? IMHO having something die and re-summoned should give you a clean slate.

Oh, and about the horror helm, as was suggested...if a creature has natural fear, does the helm stack with it?

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Yes, the horror helm increases a unit's natural fear.

If you want to get rid of afflictions, you can also summon up a Fairy Queen, who can heal, or forge the unique magic artifact, the Chalice. It automatically has a chance to heal units in whatever province it is in.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Fairy Queen. I hadn't thought of that. That's exactly what I'll do. Thanks!

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

I have a ton of commanders now with Ethereal Crossbows and Just Man's Cross', but even though I have them as far up to the front as possible and they are set to "fire rear" they never actually fire. What's going on? Seriously, spending hours just to take one castle isn't fun, it's frustrating.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

If Ermor only has one province left, just try to kill its dominion : make temple in all surrounding provinces, move your god and prophet on Ermor, and put all the priest ou can mass on Ermor set to preach.

It might take some time if their dominion start high, but with both your god and prophet to couter their, and all your temples in surrounding provinces, you will have them whatever force they can have in the fortress.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Jack has the right idea here, dominion kill him. If that isnt working send a COMPLETELY unroutable army consisting of undead, unroutable magic beings and unroutable commanders.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Also, be wary that if he has lots of Dusk Elders, he can probably quite easily clog the entrance to his castle with Undead (skelespam etc.) and anyone that he feels like can cast combat spells on them.

The computer AI is extremely fond of skelespam, and generally when I lose castle sieges against the computer AI it's because of this exact issue.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

I'd suggest you setup a test-game and see how Bone Grinding works against skellispam, if you can get it.
I vaguely recall Bone Grinding being an ultimate-crusher-destroyer-annihilator-of-multidimensional-proportions of undead in dom2.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Also, if he's relying on Dusk Elders with skellispam, use fliers. Flying thugs attacking rear can kill off the Dusk Elders before the skellispam gets going.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Again, everyone, thanks alot! I finally took them out using a bunch of demons and imps set to hold and attack rear. That did the trick, and the DE's fell so quickly they couldn't even get their terror machine going. Since this is my first time blood magicking, it took me awhile to get used to the spells. I was a bit bummed though when I summoned a big demon lord and it started causing disease in my capitol. What use is that? It's my only big air magic guy, too, so I moved him to a smaller province and am just allowing my people to die in order to have wind ride, barrels of air, and all that good stuff.

I'm really getting the hang of magic diversity. I don't like being pidgeonholed, and even with a nation as magic inept as LA Ulm, I am now pretty much able to cast anyting utilyzing my pretender and summons.

One thing though. I have two Faerie Queens set to heal in a province with ONLY my heavily injured Father Illearth and they don't seem to be healing anything, even after many many turns. Is there some rules as to what (who?) can be healed and what (who?) can't?

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

If he has a never healing wound or disease i dont think they can be cured, other than that im not sure.

Undead, maybe lifeless
 

Healing commanders (be they Faerie Queens, Arco priestesses, the one TC immortal, whatever) can't heal undead or lifeless inanimates, if memory serves. Illearth doesn't have any flags that would impair his healing, as far as I can tell.

Never-healing wounds can be healed, but there's a penalty to the die roll for them. Diseases can be healed; until they do, they'll still cause hp loss and potentially more afflictions.

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

I don't suppose anyone knows the odds?

Illearth isn't diseased. His injuries are biggies, though, lost an eye, lost an arm, and he does have a never healing wound. I also just moved a feebleminded member of the third tier in there, and he was my best astral mage so I need him back. My pretender has no astral. It has been over twenty turns and so far neither of them have been healed at all, and I have two faerie queens.

Also, is insanity healable? I have made a beachhead (kelphead?) in the ocean against Ryleh but all my sea troll commanders are becoming insane.

Still, after a rocky patch, I am really enjoying this game. The one thing I notice is due to a scarcity of gems I am underutilyzing my mages. I have tons of mound fiends, demilichs, and vampire counts that aren't doing anything cool but researching, sitting around, or leading armies in a non magical capacity. I can't imagine how people like Gandalf play games with 1000 provinces. I have trouble managing the fifty or so I have now.

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

I'd really like to see more affliction-healing units (especially self-healing Pretenders and named units) and also, affliction-healing provinces, since it isn't too fun to have your whole crippled with no way to medic them.

Ermor especially could use a healer unit, since they're based on Rome. I personally think most nations should have some type of healer-maybe a crazy expensive unit, but something. Obviously a nation like Yomi might be an exception.

Maybe a good solution would be to have Independent healers available. I wouldn't want to totally eliminate afflictions by any means, just allow-with an effort-the repair of badly damaged but important units such as Pretenders.

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

I agree. Joe Schmo commander and troop, whatever, but when you invest all this energy into a SC pretender, or an expensive summon like Illearth, there should be some way to get him back to fighting weight, so to speak. Personally, I think when a unique summon is killed and then re-summoned, they should be back to how they originally were. You lose the items, obviously, but the afflictions should go away.

EA Ermor has an affliction healing unit. The Bishop (or Archbishop?) of the Sacred Shroud. Their cavalry also heal afflictions (although I think only their own, though not sure).

I am in full agreement about independent healers. In fact, I love independents in general. I think there should be ten times the variety of independents. They don't need to be world beatingly powerful, but just different. I found Gnomes for the first time in this game, and I love those little guys, they really compliment my national mages, as they have paths my guys don't.

It is obvious, however, that something is wrong with affliction healing, unless I am missing something. My two damaged units are alone in a province with two faerie queens, and after about 30 tuns now, still nothing has been healed. Maybe I should try a few more queens, or maybe they heal troop afflictions, but not commander?

Hm, interesting.
 

I -have- seen them heal afflictions in commanders, so they're not completely pointless with respect to commanders. I wonder if it's penalized by death or misfortune scales.

They can't heal old-age afflictions, 'tho.

Insanity is currently permanent. Wouldn't mind seeing a unique Arkham Asylum site that had an 'enter to lose (2d6 - 2d6 + 2) insanity' command, if it could be set so that you didn't have to be a mage to enter.

Re: Hm, interesting.
 

I agree about the gnomes, infact I was already working on a gnome nation before I discovered them in the game.

I'm (slowly) working on a pre Early age mod which will add dozens of different stone-age independents, including some animal independents, but the more the merrier.

Great idea about the insanity cure site, Taqwus.

Speaking of which (with the Void Gate in mind) how about more Void Gate type sites? I definitely want an Oni gate for Yomi, but I'm sure their's lots of potential here. Gates to the Mictlan underworld, Inferno, Cocytus, the Norse Yggdrazil, Faerie Mounds, lots of different things could be done and lots of different places could be made-some of which you wouldn't normally want to enter, but might in the right circumstances.

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

The only think I can think about is you forgetting to actually give the queen the command to heal. And that's only because you never explicitly said you did.

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

Hahah! When I posted that I was wondering if I should edit it to explicitly state they were set to heal, but I didn't because I was lazy.

Yes, my queens were set to heal. Also, dominion is growth 1 and luck 3, so if death and misfortune are to blame, it's not in this case.

I think the culprit is old age. Ermor aged Illearth something terrbile, and that may be the true reason for the afflictions (though they all happened at once and I could have swore it was during a battle). That's lame you can't heal old age afflictions. Old age is a pain in the neck enough with the stat penalties, there should at least be some way you can lessen the suck. Or how about at least if you cure old age (thruough nature empowerment or rejuvenate, then once you do that you can heal old age afflictions (since you're not old, they are now just regular afflictions). That would be nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

Gift of health can cure old age afflictions. Maybe the Chalice?

I know the commanders with heal can't.

If he was aged in battle he probably got the afflictions from the magical aging not from wounds.

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

The chalice and GoH both can heal afflictions regardless of cause or victim.

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

You'd think a pretty little Faerie princess with plenty of enthusiasm and imagination would be able to "heal" any old fart of whatever afflictions old age has brought on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Undead, maybe lifeless
 

Chalice seems like a good plan because I think he could easily take any questing knights that come after it. I'll try that one next, and get my faeries to start casting air long distance attack spells.

Fun stuff!

Edit: Edited for terrible spelling. I can't believe I spelled knights, "nights."

Questing knights...
 

You know, I've -never- seen any knights come after the Chalice, in either D2 or D3, and it's one of my favorite artifacts.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

BTW, healing is a chance for every unit stacked with a healer. It doesn't help to have only one patient - put as many patients as possible with healers to maximize the results overall.

Sounds like your problem here is the old age, though.

PvK

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

It was my Marignon / Abysia post, glad it inspired you. Me, I can't get my head around LA Ulm - I'm wondering what kept you there. Their mages are just so awful...

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

E9 Sacred very heavy cavalry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

E9? I didn't use a bless for this game, going for a more rainbow-can-summon-everything-for-magic-diversity method.

Still, I like the knights, they do tend to have staying power, even w/o bless.

I just like the mythos of the nation. I think it's cool and thematic. In SP, you can technically win with anything, so I just like to have fun with different stuff. It was a nice intro to blood magic for me, and the vampire counts are pretty cool. The rangers remind me of the rangers of Gondor, if say, they became evil and um, eastern europeany.

The priests are cool looking, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

E9N4 can result in some very nice knights and the commander knights make great thugs.

Re: LA Ulm, specifically against LA Ermor
 

Hmmm... my trial game had my capital surrounded by water on two sides and with 3 small provinces around it, so I think I just wrote them off as too expensive (I even had production 1 and could still only manage 2 a round).

Still, and as always without the benefit of extensive experience, I can't help but see all the beautiful magics, strong priests, and more readily used sacreds of LA Mictlan when I try to play LA Ulm.