[In-Progress] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Since it seems that there are more than a few people are still playing SEIV, and MM is busy with the development of SEV, I thought it might be good to assemble an unofficial expansion pack.

I'd like to have this be a community effort, possibly adapting some of the mods, shipsets and graphics that are already out there. I won't be able to do this alone.

The expansion should match the look and feel of stock SEIV Deluxe 1.95c (so no QNP) and compatible with stock AI, data files, etc. A user should be able to unzip the expansion pack to their main data folder just like the ImageModpack.

If you have created a SEIV mod, post here if you want some of its content included in the expansion pack.

If you have a race style you want included, post here.

If you're interested in creating original content or adapting existinc content for use in the expansion pack, post here too.

And if you have any other ideas, then by all means post them here.

---------------------------------
The expansion should include:

New components and facilities
These should be balanced with stock components and facilities and correspond to any extended tech levels.

new races
These should contain both ship images and AI. Original sets only (so no Star Trek races)

new advanced racial traits
These could follow the same pattern as stock traits (separate tech area), or be embedded into the tech tree.

Expanded tech areas that were somewhat neglected in stock (like biology, chemistry, gravitational manipulation, drones and remote mining)

------------------------------------
Other Possible additions:

new planet types
new system or quadrant types
new ruin techs
new mounts
an honest-to-goodness scenario
new music
text file additions - design types, cultures, etc.
new events
new formations
new hulls

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

To be honest we dont need an expansion pack (I myself am too busy playing the mods that people make)

besides there is the TMD mod and thats just for the A.I anyways

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Such an "expansion" could not change much more than the default name lists.
Otherwise it breaks savegames and screws up multiplayer bad.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Ultimate Strategies Mod is a good place to get formations (and strategies) from. It is a compilation of all that I could find.

FQM seems to have a few fans here and there. Might be a decent place to get quadrant, system, etc. data from. I'd recommend using the "no ast" type quadrant options, to avoid the excesses created by the full asteroid rings typical of the mod. You would have to modify the non-mid-life quadrants to use the no ast type, but that's just a matter of copy/pasting the respective system lists from the mid-life no asts.

"text file additions - design types, cultures, etc."

There are some decent base files for the flavor files (empire names, design types, etc.) included in FQM as well. I think they are in both standard and deluxe, but I forget. Might be a good base for your purposes.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I would be happy to have all my non trek ship sets added.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Oooh, yeah, shipsets.
How many shipsets are in that huge compilation torrent?

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

200 plus I think.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Id love to see it. I recently tried to re-create my personal mod and ran into alot of problems. I didnt keep track originally of what I put into it but after loading the SEIV on my other desktop that I got with my copy of SEV I was shocked at the difference. I think there is a LOT of neutral stuff that can be incorporated into a single expansion pack which would allow other more specialized mods to run without conflict. Run better in fact since some seem to take for granted that I have capabilities that dont seem to be in place such as extra formations or attack instructions.

Somehow I ended up with:

of course all of the added graphics

huge galaxies (Fyrons Quadrant thing)

a couple of hundred shipsets which I mostly added one at a time.

an extensive list of emperor titles, and types of government, and all the other choices for creating a race

extended neutral races (altho I think I might have done that myself)

extended AI's

extra ship-name lists (some of which I might have done myself)

extra formations and default instructions for ships

space monsters and pirates

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Yikes! The number of new races should probably be edited down to about 3-5, based on image quality, AI quality, and how they mesh with the overall look and feel of stock SE4.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I forgot about that. Best to make it a regular mod then, and maybe include a copy of Matryx's SE4 Mod Launcher (if he's still around to ask).

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

racial cross-over techs!
And more than 1 level to unique techs. I've added 5 levels to each unique tech in my mod. Works well.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

3 to 5? I would argue the point but I dont think I have to. Once you start looking thru the files you will up that number Im sure.

Im fairly picky, and even leaving out all the joke ones, ones based on tv or movies, ones which seemed to basically be duplicates, Id still guess it to be closer to 100.

One thing I WOULD like to see is the same race done multiple times. I did it with the neutrals. They had the same portrait, ships, nation name, etc. But they had different setings on what they liked and didnt like, tactics, mood, etc. That way meeting them didnt automatically tell me what would work and not work.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Having archaeological racial traits be required to get the most out of ruins is also nifty.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

An Archaeological trait is a good idea. Maybe you only get the standard one level without it, but if you have researched advanced archaeology, you can get more benefits out of ruin techs like ancient shields and the like.

As for 200+ race styles. I want to keep the mod small and tight, as if Malfador had released it as an official expansion. So even though there's a lot of great stuff out there, I'm going to sort through it and find the best of the best, with respect to stock.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I <font color="red">STRONGLY</font> disagree with you here !!!

"<font color="red">WE</font>" would very much like to see just such an Expansion Pack. The various things listed so far by <font color="blue">Urendi Maleldil</font>, <font color="green">Gandalf Parker</font>,and the others are a perfect example that there <font color="red">IS</font> just such an interest out there.

I personally think this thread is on the right track, and would be more than willing to offer whatever help and material I can.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Nothing we could do would really be "expansion pack" material, however (at least, in the real sense of an expansion pack, not the atrocities some big companies call "expansions"). An expansion pack would necessarily add much in the way of new hard code abilities and such.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

This effort would be more along the lines of an ADD ON pack.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Since the basic SEIV is something like 100 stars, 8 nations, and loads of other low settings that many of us might not even remember; I will certainly think of it as an expansion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
But you are probably right. Add-On might work for sales.

Whoever wants to do the work can upload it to CafePress on a free account and let people go there to buy it. Id have no problem paying 10 or 20 dollars for it. And it certainly wouldnt bother me if the person got some dollars for the work.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Of course, then they'd have to pay everyone that contributed parts... plus the whole bad mojo for selling mods thing. I certainly wouldn't want my work included in a pay-for mod.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Hmm. That's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of selling the mod. I remember Hadrian got permission from Malfador a long time ago to sell the Ultimate Mod.

There are a lot of third-parties that sell game add-ons for games like Microsoft Flight Simulator, so why not for SEIV? The trick would be to work out some sort of percentage-based revenue sharing thing with each contributor... complicated, but do-able. Plus it would be an interesting way to give back to all you SE4 modders that have been ou there for like ever.

What do you guys think? Is trying to sell a mod like this something you'd be interested in, or is it not worth the hassle?

It's probably too much work to make sure everybody gets their fair share. Besides, no one's going to be making handfuls of cash, since there will hopefully be a whole bunch contributors and SE4 is an older game with an audience that's largely moved on to SE5. But who wouldn't love getting an extra quarter in the mail each month? If you save up, you can buy a candy bar.

By the way, I thought you could only sell mugs and stuff on Cafe Press.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Hadrian got permission to sell the mod in the sense to cover the shipping costs - not for profit.

If it were ever possible to charge money for such a mod, I would think the cash would have to go to something like PBW.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Great suggestion. That's actually a better idea. It would support the SE4 community as a whole, plus it would be easier to manage the money because it would all be all be going to the same place. Brilliant!

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

You cannot sell it. The legal ramifications of such a thing would only cause hardship and anger.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

You would ask SFI/MM if you could give it away with an $XX donation to PBW. The expansion itself would have to contain no copyrighted material outside of SE stuff and the permission of all contributers to distribute their work. In that case I don't see any problems.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Urendi Maleldil said:
What do you guys think? Is trying to sell a mod like this something you'd be interested in, or is it not worth the hassle?

Selling mods is anathema to the very concept of modding. Asking for donations is fine, but mods are meant to be free...

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Selling a mod is, frankly, absurd.

You're screwed right away by the fact that the "market" for mods has everything else at zero cost.
Secondly, any good ideas are bound to get re-implemented in many other mods... probably in better ways too. There is no actual monopoly on ideas.
And really, would YOU pay for a mod?

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I agree with selling a mod directly, but a compilation disc with perhaps some extras like custom music etc. might be a nice gift for a small donation to PBW don't you think? Kind of like PBS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Instead of selling it we could distribute it for free exclusively on a special "support PBW" website with a prominent paypal "donate" button.

Then we put the word out to various gaming publications and web sites with a quick press release letting them know that SE4 is still around, people are still modding it, there's an active SE4 multiplayer community out there called PBW, and why don't you stop by for a friendly game?

I'm a journalist. Press releases are no problem to write. And I'm sure there are a lot of people here that could build a quick one-page website.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

You mean you should not sell it? I dont think there is a legal "cannot" involved. Many people in many games sell CDs of add-ons for games. After all, its their own work. Its no different than selling a CD of avatars, or icons, clip-art, sound effects, tiles, etc. There should be no problem selling a CD of help files, or nations, or replacement text files, or whatever for this game.

The advertising part of it might get shakey. You can announce it here and give a link but creating a page that sells the CD and mentions "Space Empires IV" or Malfador could complained about.

And it doesnt matter what the market is since it doesnt cost anything to put it online for sale. If I remember correctly the materials cost of providing it on CafePress is some like $6 so if you set it at $6 then you make nothing (CP handles the burning and shipping). If you charge $7 then you get a dollar each time.

But I guess with Shrapnel offering free download off of their servers then its no biggie for most of the mods. But a major mod-compilation that takes someone quite abit of effort would make sense to offer off of CP (also mugs and mousepads with keypress charts, tshirts with ship sets and funny sayings, posters of great space battles, bumper stickers, etc etc)

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Anyway, there are several parts to the expansion:

• New Tech Areas (&amp; Racial Traits)
• Expanded Tech Areas
• New Components, Facilities, Hulls
• New Races (&amp; AI, possibly using some of the new techs)
• New Quadrants, Systems and Planets
• Flavor Text (Empire Types, etc.)
• Additional Graphics (load screen, UI enhancement, etc)
• New Events, Intel projects
• New Formations, Strategies

Most of these can be taken from existing mods (with the creator's permission of course), but it will take editing to make everything work together and keep the stock flavor. I know of several items from the Masters Mod and the Ages mod that might work as part of the expansion pack.

For graphics, we might be able to use a version of the Image Mod with the non-original and copyrighted images removed.

Post here or send me a private message if you want to help out with one of the above areas. Once we get the ball rolling I can assign you a particular task.

Also post links to any of your mods mods or race styles that might be able to help fill those areas.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I've opened up a development group on Google that should help us collaborate a little better, especially once we start flinging files around.

http://groups.google.com/group/use4ep-development/

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Not to be negative, but I am telling you that this selling concept can only end badly. I have been through with it some very skilled and up front people over a Tribes deal and it ended very badly. (I mean VERY badly.)

However if your going to give it a whirl, and can use any of my stuff, I give you permission to do so as long as any portion of my percentage of the profit goes toward PBW as a donation.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Atrocities, I think I know where you're coming from. That's why I think this will be better (and more fun):

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Do you guys thing the expansion should include Ed Kolis's Colony Tech Mod 2?

I think having untradeable colony techs without the need to select a special racial trait would be a worthy addition.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Without making them racial techs? How does that work?

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

It exploits a quirk with unique tech area handling. link

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Kwok is right, my permission only extended to recovering the costs of making the CD's and mailing them because, at that time, online distribution was cost prohibitive for me. I wasn't gonna make a penny off of it.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

You might consider looking at such mods as Adamant's racial traits to see how they use REQUIRED negative values to further limit cheating and such.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I though the required abilities field didn't work. I'll have to take a closer look at Adamant.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

What he is referring to is adding a trait to give, say, 10000 points, then making the colony tech traits cost 10000 points. This strongly discourages players from taking 2 colony tech traits.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I have adopted this system for use with up coming SE IV AST 2.0 mod. I find that it lends itself very well to preventing PBW cheating of having more than one colony type from game start.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Or, you can use the colony tech 2.0 mod, which has no need for racial traits, and does the same exact job.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

is there one that locks in preventing the trading of those also?

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

The ones mentioned prevent trading, yeah.

As a racial tech or a unique tech, they can't be traded except to somebody who already has it, which defeats the purpose.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Colony Tech 2.0 I'm pretty sure can be worked around by means of analyzing ships. The racial trait scheme cannot.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Personally I wouldnt mind if it worked analyzing ships.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I think that trading colony techs in a multiplayer game right off the bat between allies gives them an unfair advantage over the other players.

But I also think that requiring a player to select a racial trait to get any sort of colony tech is bad for both new players and absent-minded veterans. One of the worst things is to start a game only to find out you can't colonize anything. And if that's a multiplayer game, then everybody has to wait while they start the game over again.

Even if it doesn't fix the third problem of trading through tech analysis, the Colony Tech Mod 2 fixes those two problems. In that way I think it's better than stock.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

I just noticed a problem with integrating the Colony Tech mod 2. In order to use it, AI research files have to contain the new colonization tech areas and can't include the old ones.

That means downloaded ship sets won't be compatible with it unless their AI files are modified by hand. Nuts. I really like the way the Colony Tech Mod 2 works.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

A mass updater can be done for shipset files.
Was this pack going to include more shipsets?
If sets were downloaded by a person later, would they refuse to work or just allow trading of colony tech?

If the second, then it still would only create a situation of semi-randomness where you MIGHT get some nations in the game that do and some that dont. That wouldnt be tood bad.

Re: [Planning] Unofficial SEIV Expansion Pack
 

Newly downloaded ship sets would work, but they would generate annoying error messages and the AI for them would be unable to research any colony techs beyond their native one.