Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

The stock Override_InvConfiguration_Slots.txt file is pretty crappy; it is just a copy of the Abbidon slot layouts. Thus, I am working on a real generic slot layout file. The set of layouts should be generic enough to use in most any mod, and I plan to send it in to Aaron to hopefully get it put in as the default file.

All ships use the same slot layouts, bases use the same, and units use the same sort of layouts, just scaled down a bit. The ships and fighters are basic rectangular shapes, and the bases and units are squares.

What I need to know is, are there enough slots to comfortably use every hull (without excessive use of multiple decks)? Do the layouts "work?"

You can load the mod up directly, or combine it with any other mod by copying the slot file into that mod, then editing the Mod_Definition.txt file for that mod to read:

Override InvConfiguration Slots := TRUE

mod link:

http://www.spaceempires.net/files/se...icSlots001.zip

For reference, here is a link to a screen capture of the ship layout:

http://www.spaceempires.net/files/temp/slots.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

This would be a tremendous help. I once suggested that option of having the ability to pre-assign specific slots to specific classes of components. Having a slot editor for use with a mod would have been ideal.

This way all a person would have to do is click on a component and the game would place that component into the correct location of the ship. IE engine to the rear, weapons to the sides and front, and support components in the center mass and armor to armor hard points.

Good luck with what you are doing Fyron, any help is going to be greatly appreciated by a great many players.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

There is a slot modder program, by SJ.

Any comments on the layouts themselves?

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

I really like that layout. To me says SFB all the way. Kana needs to get in here and look at this one. As for the total number of slots is this a one deck layout? I don't see how it could be so if it is the SE5 three decker than they are fine. If it is anything less it would be incompatible with the SFTC large hulls like the Juggernaut.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Decks are just a duplicate layer of the slot layout; we have no direct control over what decks 2 and 3 look like.

The ship layout has 72 slots. The stock dreadnought layouts range from about 50 to about 70 slots total (with the Abbidon predictably fatter than all at 80 slots), so at least for stock, there should be plenty of slots available.

You can make the juggernaut use a base layout (88 slots, more than all stock races) if you need more slots. If you need even more, nothing stops you from using the slot modder to add another hull entry to the file with 20 more slots or so. If we ever get a neostandard se5 going, we can perhaps include a huge ship layout in the file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Here is the base layout for reference:

http://www.spaceempires.net/files/temp/baseslots.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Yes with the armor slots out to the sides, it does look alot like an SFB SSD. Yet Armor in SEV is damaged before anything else, and is not directional. So this is just for looks and for ease of viewing. Now if we could just have the actual ability to rename the slots and what they can hold that would be a great help.

I'm certainly considering someform of directional leaky shields/armor thing for both of my mods, and slot layout with directional damage will be very important to the end.

Currently I can't get the slot modder to work right. It worked fine on the demo, but at the momement I'm having a brain fart on it...

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Yeah, it looked kind of ugly with armor slots way off to one side (top/bottom). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

You could modify these layouts to leakiness by modding the armor slots to outer hull.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

I like the layout. I think its a solid design.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Why would a mod or TC have to adjust itself for an image pac? As I see it the slots should be built with enough flexibility that players don't need to adjust the ships to play with their favorite mod. Why should a modder be forced into changing a ship set made by another person just because the standard (which you are attempting to set now) was made without consideration of larger ships? As a modder I am not about to screw with another persons labor of love. Frankly I am offended that you think I should have to.

Now as I said before the number of slots should be fine for one of my Juggernauts. I am willing to bet my ship size to component size is one of the largest that will be seen in some time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

The reason why mods must override the slot layouts is to put a damper on cheatsets and ensure the game is fair.

What would be useful is a set of layouts for each size;
tall, wide, and round. You could then have racial traits decide what kind of layout your ships use.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Looks fine to me. I'll probably use it for the generic slot layout in the Balance Mod. I'll think about giving you some credit, but then again it does sort of look like some images I cooked up before release. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

PES:
Huh? This has nothing to do with shipsets or image packs, and everything to do with the generic slot override file (Override_InvConfiguration_Slots.txt) that modders can use to have shipset-independent slot layouts. No shipsets get altered anywhere by this. I'm not attempting to set a standard for shipsets; I am only trying to create a better Override_InvConfiguration_Slots.txt file.

SJ:
What would be useful is a set of layouts for each size;
tall, wide, and round. You could then have racial traits decide what kind of layout your ships use.

Hmm... not a bad idea, but maybe that is something more suited to a mod that actually uses them.

Kwok:
Well, you never posted that for public consumption. Just getting the ball rolling. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Really. It won't affect any shipsets? Ok we will see but I think you are being short sited and only considering this from one point of view. Fyron's.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

I am completely confused as to what you are talking about... Are you questioning the validity of the slot override file in principle? Are you questioning the goal of replacing the Abbidon slot layouts used currently with something more generic? Are you questioning my suggestion to add a new size to the _override file_ if your mod is using the override file and you have a super-huge hull size that needs more slots?

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

I was think this same thing a couple of hours after my post thinking about it. Basically use the outer slots as leaky armor/shielding, and then have the rest of the ship components as inner slots... How do you think this would work with the directional damage? Would I be able to achieve the affect of having say basically a directional shield/armor?

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Remember that inner slots are only hit after all the outer slots have been destroyed. Doing armor that way would have all the drawbacks to the stock armor system and none of the advantages.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Wow that is completely and totally dumb...the more I look at the SEV combat system, the more I ask myself WTF!?!

Why even have directional damage at that point. You would have to destroy the front outer components, before you could destroy the rear inner components, if you attack from the rear. That just doesnt make any sense what so ever...Did it work the same way in Star Fury? I got the impression of SF damage as being directional, along with the shields being directional as well...

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Fortunately its easy enough to fix- you just use a layout that doesn't HAVE any inner hull slots.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Yes, but I want the directional damage to also have directional protection. If all the slots are the same, how does the 'shield' protect first, before another component on that side gets hit?

Actually I think from reading something SJ posted elsewhere on using 'leaky shields' as 'damage absorbtion' would work, because the absorbtion would happen before damage I think, but I dont believe the absorbtion is directional...

See the important thing here is directional...which if there is no good reason to use it, then we don't really need the slot layouts, and can go back to the old SEIV component layout.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

What kind of system do you think would be good to implement for this? I would think making damage to armor directional but how would the shields work? Directional by creating a fourth component slot maybe? You will have shield slots, armor slots, outer slots, inner slots and damage will be applied directionally in that order.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Uh, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Damage goes like this:

Shields. All shield points must be down before the Armor is hit. Not directional.
Armor. All armor points must be gone before the Outer Hull is hit. Not directional.
Outer hull. All hull points must be gone before the Inner Hull is hit. Directional.
Inner hull. Directional.

It doesn't matter if all the slots are Outer Hull, because the damage is still directional. The damage isn't leaky in the SE4 sense, but losing all the 'internal armor' on the left side means another hit there will cause damage to the left-hand components, while a hit on the RIGHT side will still hit the undamaged armor there.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Who me or Kana? Mine was a suggestion for an improved system we would need to ask Aaron for.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Kana.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Do you think my suggestion holds any merit? Maybe asking for directional damage isn't enough. I wonder how hard it would be to ask for directional layered damage? You know what I mean? Blow out the right side shields damage goes to: right side armor --> right side outer --> internal -->left side outer --> left side armor --> left side shields. I suppose once you blow out the internals the rest becomes almost pointless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

What would be the point of having a separate "internal" slot in that case? It'd act the same as an outer slot.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Yes it would for all intents and purposes. I was thinking in terms of modders and players. For us modders it would allow us to guide players into where to place the more critical components. For new players it would help them from making a huge and silly mistake. I tried this same approach in the SFTC but at the time I wasn't fully focused on what I was doing. In other words I did it by mistake but it should be made a standard to help the learning curve in building ships. Just my two cents. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

But as I've asked before...what determines what gets hits first either directonally, or by outer/inner slots? The biggest component, alphabetical, random? If its random, then you could lose a gun before you lose your armor.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Shields as one big single number go first.
Then armor gets damaged, in order of placement.
Then Outer hull slots get hit. Directionally.
Once all outer hull slots are dead, then Inner hull slots get hit. Directionally.

Outer before inner is highest priority. Directional then decides between all the ties.

Example;
Getting roasted alive from the back. Outer hull components get vaped one by one... the bottom row goes first, then row by row up to the top. Now all outer hull components are dead and all inner hull components are intact.
Then the damage destroys inner hull components on the bottom row. Then row by row to the top. Then all components are dead and your ship explodes.


SO, when designing ships in GGmod, you put all your armor on the edge-most slots, and squeeze your real components into a small cluster in the middle.
Since the armor is packed onto the top row, the bottom row, the left column and the right column, one of those four will get hit first by a weapon.

Now, if you are hit from the left, all of your leftmost armor will be hit first. But the rightmost armor will be hit last. The internals aren't too happy about the latter.

Now, if you put the armor in the upper left corner, it will be both above and left of your internals! This provides protection from both directions.
The downside is that GG layouts are round, so there aren't corners to put armor into. You can fit some in that general area, but it makes for a very small safe-zone since the armor will be halfway to the middle from both sides.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

It works exactly how I posted.

Say all your shield and armor points are gone. You get hit from the left. The left-most component in the Outer Hull gets hit. Once that's gone, it moves to the next one in, etc.

The only thing that isn't directional is it skips over the Inner hull until all the outer hull components are dead.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

But its still not true directional which I was trying to propose with my post. In my idea/proposal if you are getting your butt shot off your forward armor will be last to go. Or in a perfect world your forward shields will be the last to go. However, that may be too much to ask for right now.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

PES, I'm not talking about your idea at all here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Doh, I am so sorry! I thought you were trying to point out flaws in it. This is an A-B conversation so let me C my way out of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Well that was kinda my point...the directional damage isnt truely directional...because it basically wraps around the entire ship eliminating components layer by layer...So really direction is only important by layer more so than just by direction alone.

Thank you both Phoenix, and SJ. SJ's example illustrated it alittle clear, and now I understand exactly how damage is done, and again I still feel that it is flawed...

What I want to know, is if this is how it was done in Star Fury?

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

No. SF had directional armor and (IIRC) shields.

Once SE5 lets you add new slot types (it was apparently supposed to, and MM thought it was working, but it isn't), you could make a limited fully directional hit system.

The problem is the shield "generators" would also be the shield "points", so when your shields fail, there goes the generator too.

..speaking of, I'm still trying to get a Langston Field type system into SE5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Perfect protection until the shield gets too low, then some penetration. And if the shield gets overwhelmed, BANG..no ship.

EDIT: by the way, I should point out SJ and I didn't mention damagetypes when we were explaining the damage system. Layers are a bit more important when complex damage types are involved, as you can have a weapon that is partially blocked by the shields and passes the rest through to the hull, for example.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

So back to the point... anyone have any issues with my slot layout files?

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Starfury does it mostly the way GGmod does it.

All the inner hull slots are deleted. Only outer slots (and a couple armor slots for my leaky shields)

This means that the damage is directional across the whole ship.
Key difference between Starfury and SE5 is that SE5 has only four directions, whereas Starfury seemed to use arbitrary angles.

Also note that the armor/leaky shields do stay up permanently, until the ship explodes. (Although I did add an overload feature, so big guns vs tough ships can damage or disable lower tech shield generators)


Given the GGmod style directional armor, the forward armor IS the last to go... although by the time the forward armor starts getting damaged from hits to the rear, your entire crew will be far to busy being dead to care http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

SE5 is much like that perfect world if you only add the ability for shield power to be redirected to any facing you like.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Sorry for the thread hijack there Fryon...

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Yes I could see how this would be considered a full time job. But do I still have keep them on the imperial payroll? What about tax time? Who pays the medical and dental and 401K? I don't think I like the direction you are going with this! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Fyron what was the point of your slot thingy? Are your slots to small and you want to them all bigger? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Why not just leave it up to the modder to make one if they need one at all?

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Nobody HAS to use it... much like nobody has to use the imagemod, or FQM.

Its just there and available and better than the stock stuff. Probably good for a base for modders to tweak to their own uses too.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Basically he is just making a generic slot layout that can overide what is ever in any shipset to be used in a mod, so that all races have an equal and similar set of slots to use for their ships. Its a balance thing...

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

After playing around with the slot editor I am all for having generic slot designs.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Gee it's almost like Fyron is setting the standard? Wow that sounds familiar... I hate it when I'm right, then again I did spend five years studying human behavior you think I might have some clue as to what the heck I'm saying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

*rolls eyes* The only "standard" I am trying to set is the default override file. What ship set authors choose to do with their own slot layout files is of no concern.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

What happened to the roll eyes (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif)? Was that because this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif is kinda dorky? I want my rolling eyes mister! Dorky as in the eyes don't really roll.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Fyron,

Since you site is down, can you e-mail me the file with the slots? I want to add it in the Balance Mod update tomorrow.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Thats a good idea. Too bad you can't get Aaron to adopt it as well.

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Hmm... Aaron didn't mention it in the patch log, did he? The file is now a part of stock SE5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Check "Game Types\Standard SE5."

Re: Generic Vehicle Slot Layouts
 

Will do. I noticed that a lot of fixes after 1.24 were not mentioned in the patch log for 1.25. This prompted some confusion about bugs that might still be a problem, but in fact were addressed.