Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Edit : for a demo of the current state of the map editor, see http://dominions.realites.org/map_editor/
For more info about what features are already done, read the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
--------------------

I already done a map semi randomizer (http://dominions.realites.org) that can add random commanders/units or preset provinces to a map file.

As others such projects have started to be released, instead of adding more feature to the random province part I'm thinking about moving to the next part.
(note that I still take suggestions of special provinces , existing list at http://dominions.realites.org/?actio...cial_provinces )

What is the next part ? A full online map editor, no less.

I already have a perl script that parse a map image en return the list of all provinces found and their position on the image. (note : as this part can take a few minutes for large maps, I will probably release a separate version of this script so only the results can be uploaded)

By using then a jpeg or gif copy of the image, and CSS/javascript, I can display small icons on the image itself in the web browser, make them clicable to select the province, change the color of the numbers of the selected province's neighbours, display the province settings, and finally make them editable (you could add a commander with bodyguards, units, magic items, custom magic skills, and even a random commander, you could even use the existing preset provinces, set the province terrain types, ...)

The current map editor ingame is useful, but it only allows to edit neighbours and basic terrain types, and editing map files directly without the map image (and corresponding province numbers shown) is sometimes fastidious.

At worst, I could have a predefined list of map image file already parsed, and give public access to the editor.

More that a map editor, it will be in fact a scenario editor, where you could also set starting points/provinces/preset computers players , ...

The question is : is it worst the time to do ? I already started working on this project, but if there is already another editor project, or if there not enough people that think they would like such a tool, maybe my time could be better used programming something else ?

So who thinks such a tool would be really useful ?

(note : I can take questions about what I plan to do, or suggestions of features)

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

This could be very useful. Personally, I tend to edit everything by hand into the maps, but hen, I've had quite a bit of experience doing that with the various Faerun maps and keeping the in-game map editor open in windowed mode will allow me to easily check which province was what number and then put things in.

One of the problems you're going to have with placing units and commanders is that you will need to know the actual unit ID numbers. That's because there are lots of units with the same name (several types of heavy infantry, infantry of Ulm, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, archer, crossbowman, warrior, vanherse, vanjarl, bandar commanders etc) but different id numbers and if you just say

#commander "Mounted Commander"
#units 20 "Heavy Infantry"

you will get the mounted commander with the lowest id number (44) and the heavy infantry with the lowest ID number (38), instead of e.g. C'tisian heavy infantry that you wanted to put there.

The same problem exists with magic sites, but to a lesser degree. Knowing site numbers would help.

For that, you need a comprehensive list of units, sites etc. I'm working on that and I can give you a site DB already, but it won't have terrain information since the terrain mask calculations in the modding manual are either just plain wrong or too ambiguous to get down correctly. It might get fixed with the next patch, though, in which case I'll be able to add that info accurately.

Edi

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Yes, that's why I think such an editor could be useful.



Yes, I know of this problem.

I plan to let the user eitheir manually select the unit id or name, or select from a list.

At first the list would be generated from a simple list extracted from the game (with the "strings" command), but there would be a function in place ready to be use instead infos from a database.

Same for the sites, items, ...

Yes, your DB project will indeed be of much help. I have several projects that are only waiting for your dom3 DB to be released http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

I'm working on that as fast as I can. It'll eventually have the items as well, but those are taking a backseat to units, weapons, armor and sites.

You can't rely too much on the string lists extracted from the game, because for example Gandalf's extracted list of weapons had things missing (such as #17 Axe), which will throw the numbers off.

I'll try to get ready as soon as possible, but the problem is that complete, accurate, quick, pick any two.

Edi

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Complete and accurate will do. ^_^

Meanwhile, i'll have my script accept manual input (and it will still be useful after your DB is complete, for exemple for mod users whose units are not in the DB)

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

It sounds really useful, if I'll ever make a map (and I'm thinking about it), I'll probably want something like that to work with http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Also, in my "Twisted Forest" province I meant to have x7 of everything you put down (ie 7 dark vines 49 vine ogres and 70 vine men) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (There should probably be some awesome reward, but I don't remember enough nature site names to know what to put down :X if there's a way to just make sure it'll have lots of cool sites that'll be greats http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Ok, so one more vote for. ^_^


Oh yes, I put one Dark Vine and its unit, but forgot to copy/paste them 6 more times.

I will fix that tonight when I'm back home.

Having a nature site would indeed be a good idea.

At worst I can force the province to require the "manysites" terrain type, so you know that you're more likely to find sites there.

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Sounds like a great idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Ok, Twisted forest has been fixed.

Now if you have a suggestion of anature site to add ...

(at worst, play a normal game, and if you find some appropriate nature site, note the name ^_^)

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Just a rapid update on the project :

- currently the script that analyse a map image file (.tga or .rgb) for provinces is complete, It is available in the attachment if someone wants it.

Edit : forgot to add the Attachment, it is there now

- by running this script on any map image, you will have a province.txt file generated. (in theory you should also have a copy of the image in JPEG format if you add the save_as_jpeg=1 parameter, but the perl module 'Imager' that I use seems to lack jpeg support for the windows Activeperl version)

This file ( exemple at http://dominions.realites.org/map_ed.../provinces.txt ) will contains the list of all provinces numbers (firt column), and their exact position on the image (the province numbers should be the very same that the official map editor would have chosen)

With this test file, and the jpeg copy of the map (exemple jpeg at http://dominions.realites.org/map_ed.../Mini/Mini.jpg ) I can already do this : http://dominions.realites.org/map_editor/

As you can see, I display all provinces numbers exactly where they should, and you can click on a province number to select the province.

Of course the project is just starting, for now selectinf a province do nothing more that that : selecting the province.

Next on my todo list :
- change color of the selected province's neighbours
- select or unselect a province as a neighbour by clicking on it (changing the selected province will then need to first click on a button or something like that, as a true double-click is not really supported by javascript.)

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Hello Jack... this sounds like a great project!

I recommend having the unit name and unit ID listed together since the same name can be shared by multiple unit_IDs which have the same name yet different forms/statistics.... such as eater of the dead.

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

I do! I do!

I'm not sure what it is, but I want it.

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

Thanks for the support, it's what make me motivated to continue

^_^

I recommend having the unit name and unit ID listed together since the same name can be shared by multiple unit_IDs which have the same name yet different forms/statistics.... such as eater of the dead.

[/quote]


Yes, I already planned for both to be usable and shown when appropriatte.

Re: Who wants a map/scenario editor ?
 

This is an amazing project, good stuff!

Request for help
 

The project is advancing, but I realise that there are things that I will need and that if I take the time to seek them it will be less time for coding.

What I need is mainly for small images/logos from the game so I can use them in the tool interface :

- icons for all the magic schools (fire, water, holy, ...)
- icons for all shown terrains types (farm, sea, mountain, forest, ...)
- icons for special sites (each site is linked to a magic school and they have each one image attached)
- the "scenario" icon
- images/icons for lab, temple, and fort

- if possible, color code for the magic schools (the colors that are used to show wich path of magic have already been searched). If not the exact colors, at least something that similar enough (I need the rgb value, if possible in #RRGGBB format)

None of those are absolutly needed for the project to continue, and with time I could get all of them by myself, but having them will make the tool better, and I think this could be useful for others too.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Re: Request for help
 

Update on the project :

- import from existing map file (if any) : done
- show on the map image the selected province's neighbours
=> province number background color :
blue = selected province
green = neighbour

click on a province to select it, click again on the selected province to unselect.

Soon to come : select and unselected the neighbours

Re: Request for help
 

New update : neighbours are now fully implemented, see the demo at http://dominions.realites.org/map_editor

Next to come :

- edit/choose the terrain type(s) for each province
(including the advanced types such as "firesite" not editables in the official map editor)
- export to map file code


We will then have an editor with ~ the same features as the official one, minus having to be in the game, and I will then start adding really new features.

Re: Request for help
 

New update at http://dominions.realites.org/map_editor/

- Fixed a few minor bugs
- For something more interesting as a demo that the small map with 6 province, I used my script (the one that analyse the map image to get the provinces numbers and positions onthe image) on the map Uropia (167 provinces), and you can now see how the province and neighbour selection works with a normal map.

Note : I plan to have the province edition menu show above the map image when you select a province, and be moveable by drag and drop. This should make large map edition bearable.

Re: Request for help
 

Another update :

added a menu for map selection

the menu also allows to :

- choose a predefined map file, or upload one
- choose a zoom level (might be useful for the larger maps)

I will add others maps soon, and if needed I could add more level of zooms.

Re: Request for help
 

New update :

- added general map infos

All except nations infos (preset pretenders, alliances, etc ...) and preset victory conditions should be in.

- added Faerun map image, with 3 map files (from the dom2 version), to serve as an exemple of large map (Yes Gandalf, I know that for you even 400+ province is not enough, you'll prefer to have 1500 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )


Next to come :

first tests of map code ouput from the editor

And then , ... the first changes to the provinces with the terrain type selection.

Re: Request for help
 

How about a print map command that will print with the province numbers. That would certainly help me with map mods.

From an earlier post , I got the impression that you were using some symbols in the map mods that did unique things like randomize. Are those in the Mod manual or are they unique to your editor?

If they are unique, what are they?

Re: Request for help
 

Hum, I could have a special mode where onlye the map with the number is shown if you really wants to print it.

But note that my mapp editor will have when complete support for *all* existing map commands, meaning that you will be able to use it to make any map scenario.


http://dominions.realites.org

It use functions writen in perl to add random commanders/units (based on a Yabasic script from Gandalf Parker), and another function replace a province with one from a special preset provinces list that match some requirements.

So no there's no existing command from illwinter that use random informations if that's what you want.

Note that my map editor will include options to randomise provinces like my map validator do (using the same functions), and if you have suggestions of some other features or options ...

Naming Function
 

OK , I will make a suggestion. It will keep me from writing it myself.

Problem: Provence numbers and names are used inconsistantly by the messaging log. On large maps, the names are duplicated and messaging does not (or rarely) use province numbers. searching for something by province number can be a hassle because the numbers array horizontally instead of closest.

My Solution; Name the Province and the Kingdom (i.e. Sleepy Hollow, Avalon)
Names can repeat in different kingdoms. Each Kingdom uses a different letter for the first character.

Limitations: Nation Overview can only display 16 characters (at least on OSx).
If the Province name and separator are kept at 15, the 16th character will always be the first letter of the kingdom. Other display locations can go to 35 characters.

Programming challenge: finding and grouping neighboring provinces into kingdoms. Remember #neighbors only list a connection once on the earliest ocurrence.

Re: Naming Function
 

Hum, changing province name is not hard at all, but if I understand your idea, you would like to have a script automatically assign the knigdoms.

Question : how do you define what a kingdom is ?

On maps like "Tyrande", an human can see where one region or kigdom start and name the province manually, but a script only know the provinces location and neighbours.

I already have a function that give the list of a province neighbours, up to a certain distance (so for exemple all the immediate neighbours and their own neighbours). I could use that to make a pseudo kingdom around an important province (maybe provinces set as "large") , ignoring province already affected to another kingdom ?

But of course this wouldn't be as good as naming the province manually.

If all goes as planned, my next big update of the map editor should be for the release of the first beta where it will be at last possible to submit your changes and get the edited map code.

The editor will still lack the part allowing to add/edit commanders/units./Features, but general map and province features should be available (for exemple you will be able to change province names)

Re: Naming Function
 

The Kingdoms would be an arbitrary grouping used only to help locate provinces on the map. Create 50 province names and 20 kingdom names for a 1000 province game. Create 100 province names for a 2000 province game. Every province would have a unique name.

If you are playing "in character", it would portray the territories of an earlier time.

Re: Naming Function
 

Ok, if it is abitrary, without regards for the map visible or natural borders, I might just select some province and create the "kingdoms".

I'm currently too busy working on the beta release of the map editor and won't have much time to work on the kingdom idea, but it should not take long to do (I hope).

Re: Naming Function
 

Update on the map editor :

By the end of the week , I hope to have a first beta version available of my map editor.

Features list :

- select a map among those availables (for now) [100% done - available in the demo of the editor at http://dominions.realites.org/map_editor ]
(I will try to have all popular maps as well as some interesting random ones)
- select an existing map file for this map, or upload your own one. [100% done - available in demo]
- select a province by clicking on its number [100% done - available in demo]
(unselect by clicking again on the same province, or by clicking on the map)
- select (and unselect) neighbours by clicking on them when a province is selected[100% done - available in demo]
- select province terrain types [100% done] (done, but not in the demo version yet)
- show draggable province info panel when a province is selected [75% done] (my current version has full terrain types support, and I will add before the beta support for other provinces general infos, but commanders and features will probably have to wait for the second beta) (not available in demo yet)
- show dragable map info [90% done] (missing : predefined AI players and alliances, and special victory conditions. They will not be implemented for the first beta)(not available in demo yet)

Re: Naming Function
 

Awesome work! Keep it up. I'll be using it!