Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

A few things spring to mind...

1> Run away and hide=-)

2> A ship with a few massive shield depleters teamed up with half a dozen (ie more than the enemy multiplex) fast, cheap boarding party ships might be able to trigger the self destruct. Of course with 5 crew quarters on the target ship you'll need several boarding parties, but a frigate or corvette might do the trick. Use the simulator to get the right design.

3> mines + intel - use targetted intel to trash the minesweepers and repair ships. You can then use cloakd ships to plant mines in the enemy's path.Remember mines won't even notice all those shields, they'll just get skip straight to that nasty old stealth armour=-)

4> Of course all this is useless if you don't eliminate the resource/ production base which is churning out these monsters...

5> Don't use any advice givn out on this forum, because your enemy is probably reading it too=-)

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 05 June 2001).]

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

PPB's have a short range. Try to build some ships with Wave Motion Guns as stay at max range. Another possibility is Null Space weapons, skips shields and armor.
I'm not real familiar with the crystal weapons but IIRC crystal armor adds to shields so load up on that armor to keep you defenses strong. Fighters could also help espescially heavily shielded fighters with 1-2 weapons. 5 PD's per ship is not that much if you can field 1000's of fighters that require more than 1 hit to destroy.
Good luck man, sounds like you are in for a long fight!

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

What do people think about the utility of Null Space Projectors? (given their reload rate of 3)....

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

If you have a speed advantage and can get the first shot in, I think there is nothing better than Null Space weapons. You take out components with every hit.
The reload rate is the only drawback. In tactical it can be overcome but I don't know how well you can use them is strategic.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

1) Nullspace cannons; in my experience they are very solid weapons in the mid game where a heavy mount can actually do serious damage against a lean cruiser design. 3 turn reloads are not a problem when you cripple with the first volley. Also, have you seen the damage resistance of a massive nullspace mount? - 250ish - ironically means that a massive nullspace mount is amongst the best way to soak nullspace or shield-skipping damage.

Negatives; if your ships are slower then you could be screwed by the opponent using max-range strategy and longer weapons. Or perhaps flooding the field with small disposable vessels. Economically, the radiactive costs of mass null-space building is vast - can be a big problem. A nullspace equipped base ship is amongst the most expensive vessel in the game outside of steller manipulation - takes a long time to build and a lot to maintain.

2) mines and selective intelligence hits vs minesweepers; nice combo - any hints as to the best way of knocking down 100,000 pts of counter-intel? (I have 200,000 pts of intel available)

3) Wave cannons - I am dubious about these, the 3 turn reload and massive cost seem a disinincentive - for the space and cost you could mount multiple anti-protons or shard cannons and fire every turn. I suspect that in a big fleet battle the strategic AI will not be able to dance reloading ships out of enemy weapon range so the reload cycle will kill.

4) Suicide borders .... now that i like *grins* appeals to the spirit of heroism of my empire. Couple of shield depleters per border maybe and pack the rest out with troops ... interesting results.

5) Economic war, I have more or less concluded that the only way to fight no-maintenance is to go for a very high direct attrition combat; looking for as many damaging engagements as possible to cause maximum casualties (hopefully his) Hence my quest for a "Tyrant"-killer design.

Thanks for ideas so far, please keep them rolling in.

I will probably write-up the results of this clash of arms as a narrative/combat guide document.

Regards

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

One thing we haven't considered is the defence modifier - does the ECM III stack with the stealth armour? If so how does that compare to combat sensors + racial bonus? Since he can't develop the talisman and there are only 5 PDCs per ship, should he be looking at overwhelming the enemy with seekers instead?

I think using fighters is a must, because the PPBs will target them in strategic and draw fire away from the rest of your fleet.

Do you anticipate any support ships in the enemy fleets or will it be just this one design?

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

1) defence modifiers are a null issue with baseships really - yes the stealth armour stacks with ecm (as would scattering too) for a +75% bonus but compare that with the +65% attack bonues and the inbuild -40% defense for base ships and hits are assured (even without considering my empires +20% attack bonus)

2) fighters are interesting but need to attack with vast numbers to penetrate those shields in a timeframe to effect the outcome of the cap ship engagement.

3) refits to pds-massed designs are likely should i use missiles and fighters in the first combats. It is likely that the enemy power has some specialised defense assets.

4) i have consider system-destruction weapons as a Last ditch fleet interdiction weapon. i.e. black hole generators trigger when an overwhelming incoming fleet is spotted. This use is entirely hypothetical though - I have no idea how the dynamics of triggering/resolution would work in simultaneous play....

thanks

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

You could also try to fight in nebulas, shield aren't as effective.
Fighting a war of attrition against a maintenance free opponent isn't a good idea IMO. You will lose units also and still pay to maintain your remaining ships.
A better goal would be to cripple his shipbuilding capacity, either by targeting planets with yards or big resource producing/storage planets. Once he has built them he's done. Keep him from building as fast as you and the attrition strategy makes more sense.
The benefit of the Wave Motion Gun is range and a +30 to hit modifier on the weapon. This makes those long range hits more likely, although I agree sometimes I'd rather fire 4-5 beams every turn. WMG's are a good alternative to going toe to toe.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

QUOTE:
2) mines and selective intelligence hits vs minesweepers; nice combo - any hints as to the best way of knocking down 100,000 pts of counter-intel? (I have 200,000 pts of intel available)
/QUOTE

Now the way I understand counter-intel is that no matter how many points are invsted in a counter-intel project, it can only counter a certain amount of enemy projects, 1 for level I counter intel, 2 for II and so on.

Therefore, (correct me someone if I'm wrong) if the enemy has invested 90,000 points in a counter-intel I, you can effectively cancel out that entire project by throwing a single 5000 point cargo bomb at them. A 150,000 point CI II can be wasted with any two cheap ops.

This means you can wear down your opponent's counter intel much faster than he can build it up. Set a dozen or so cargo/ ship bombs to complete in the same turn, and there will a very good chance at least one of them will get through. If it does, you know that next turn your opponent will have _no_ effective counter intel projects left. He will have to start some new ones from scratch. OK, if he's investing more in counter intel than you are in sabotage AND he starts enough projects then you won't be able to touch him, but if you can hit him with enough projects and / or persuade other empires to spend intel points on him you will sabotage him into the ground=-)

Oh, it's worth mentioning - I think the defender in intel conflicts gets some kind of bonus modifier, so counter intel points are worth more than offensive ones.

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

QUOTE:
2) fighters are interesting but need to attack with vast numbers to penetrate those shields in a timeframe to effect the outcome of the cap ship engagement.
/QUOTE

The fighters don't need to damage the cap ships, just draw their fire. PPBs _can_ target fighters, so depending on your opponents' fleet strategy settings, you could force all those big scary weapons to be wasted on cannon fodder fighters, allowing your cap ships to get in closer and do damage. Just a thought.

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

If you make a black hole at one of your empire's chokepoints, you can then decide whether to fight with shields or without.
Just move from one side of the wormhole to the other, and you get to disable the enemy shields OR make full advantage of your own.

You can put shields on your ships and fight outside the BH, or use armor & long-range WMGs to fight inside the blackhole.

The enemy has a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly, and will either have useless shields(by BH) or few shield points(by design), if they guess wrong. In case they guess right, you can use the other strategies mentioned in this thread.

Armored boarding ships in a Blackhole system would rule against baseships, since his shields would be gone http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Research stellar manipulation to destroy stars in his industrial systems. Go cloaked with two minesweeper DN sweep 100+. Of course by the time you pay for the stellar he will have researched sensors and put up sensor sats - but is worth a try ? It seems likely that his maintenance free option is going to kill you unless you get him FAST.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Hrrrrrrrm.

What's the range on your engine-killing beams? Given that he has NO missiles, and no range-7 or range-8 weapons of any kind, engine killers might be helpful.

Since you have all technology and a propulsion advantage, you may want to go for speed/range. Say --

BC chassis/propulsion:
6xQE III, Solar Sail III => 13/7 speed
All ships use maximum weapons range, tweaked so that second movement strategy may need to be 'Don't Get Hurt'. Try it in the simulator -- it's smarter than it used to be.

Weapons to favor:
Engine-killing beams if range is good. Don't bother with missiles unless you've got a LOT of them -- his PD will probably shoot them down. PD is probably more space-efficient than most of the missiles in terms of shots needed to kill a missile and shots available while it closes.
Shield depleters, if you WON'T be fighting in a nebula.
High-energy magnifiers (range 7) or possibly WMGs (range 8). His armor is insignificant, so it's not like you need to rely on low-damage shard cannons. Incidentally, his shields won't help at all in minefields.

As a Last-ditch scorched-galaxy defense, have a cloaked star destroyer ready IF your opponent prefers the Main Fleet approach.

Does your opponent have supply ships at all? I'd be tempted to (simulate first!) try to designate a few ships to kill only unarmed ships if it looks like they're vulnerable... probably wouldn't be, but maybe.


------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It seems likely that his maintenance free option is going to kill you unless you get him FAST<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Time is definitely NOT on your side. You'll have to go on the offensive, which puts your ships at a slight disadvantage, but means that the destruction will occur on his industrial base.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

One of the biggest problems I see is if you have 150 ships and he has 150 ships how can anyone maneuver? If you could disable the engines of the first rank of ships then all his other ships would be sitting ducks!

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Since you are looking to knock out most of his fleet and counter attack, without, I assume, leaving your system completely devoid of ships, traditional ship to ship battle is not the way.

Granted, I've never actually fielded or fought such a fleet, but I'd go with an all out non-ship to ship offensive. Wear him down and scatter his fleet. First turn on the intel machine. Change it up all the time. Find out what works. I usually go for ship insurrection, because it seems that even in the face of large counter intel it works. I believe you said something about 200,000 points. That can field a counter intel project and three SIs.

Next I would send numerous cloaked, fast wolf packs, with enough solar collectors to stay in the field forever. Equip these with sun destoryers or plague bombs or standard weapons or mine layers. Cause havok wherever you can, no matter how small. Plague his planets. Attack small Groups of ships when you can (ie colony, transport, mine layers, etc.) More than likely he will take the time to replace these. This really isn't meant to knock out his capacity for building (that is for your main offensive) this is just to keep him moving and producing ships other than those for his main attack fleet.

Next you'll have to play George Washington and try to guess where his main fleet will strike. Set a star destroyer over the star of the system you think he will enter first. Preferably one with just asteroids or at worst a few of your own colonies. As soon as his death fleet enters "BOOM." He'll never know what happened, especially if he thinks he's entering a system with a few of your colonies. I know it's sick to vaporize one's own people, but don't the good of the many out weigh the good of the few.

Keep us updated as to how it comes out. And once it's over I'd really like to hear what strategies and tactics you employed.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Some good ideas and interesting points everyone;

1)choice of battlefields/choke points – not an option I fear, I already have 3 maximum range (500ly) renewable (ie. Onboard repair) warp point constructors myself (each tied to a fleet) and I expect a similar capacity from my enemy. From my front line I can target his rear territory and I expect a similar advance from him when the time comes. Thus choke point defence (mines/satellites etc) will be irrelevant since the warp points will be newly placed. I can see able practical way to force the battle in nebulas either.

2)“attrition tactics” – although my opponent has no-maintenance advantage, my resource income is approximately twice his and my planetary shipyards outnumber his by over a hundred (we have 200 space bases each). If both fleets were annihilated I believe I could replace mine faster.

3)“wave motion gun” – I didn’t know it had +30% to hit, interesting but it does depend on the launching vessel getting out of range effectively during recharge.

4)“fighter combination attacks” – fighters to draw the big guns, yes, I could see that working – until he orders standard base ship designs to ignore them and lets the custom pdc’s engage the skirmishers! But a battle could be won that way I think.

5)“Sun-destroying” – I have several sun-destroyer craft on standby in potential target systems of mine – what worries me about their offensive capabilities is the fact that a) they need to start the turn above the target start, and b) does the detonation occur immediately in the simultaneous turn sequence or at the end of movement and combat?

6)“cloaking” – rendered impotent by high level sensor nets – all my systems have sensor satellites capable of detecting the maximum cloak available in the game. (no psychic or temporal players left alive) I expect the same of my enemy…

7)“engine-killing beam” – I think they max out at range six, I can certainly rush the base ships and burn engines on individual ships in the enemy fleet but at the cost of the engine-killer hull’s existence by massive retaliation at range six from polaron beams.

8)“enemy supply strategy” – not sure, I imagine he will add one or two quantum reactor equipped ships to the grand fleet to replenish everything. (all of my ships have quantum reactors so no supply hassles for me)

9)“Manoeuvre with 300 ships!” – not sure what will happen, even the combat simulator on strategic takes a long time to do a battle of that size … interesting to see his fleet lumber around immobile hulks though …

10) “guerrilla tactics with wolf-packs” – I was think of doing this with range eight cannon cruisers to pick off lone colonies and support craft …

kind regards all, i will certainly let people know what happens ....

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Put the minefields around your planets if your opponent has warp-point generators. He has to come after your colonies sometime, and like others have said, mines ignore shields. As for engine-destroying weapons, build a couple (large) ships with lots of the engine-destroying missiles. Overwhelm the PDC (and maybe add some fighters, just for flavor, and to keep more PDC busy). And, of course, load up on armor (or phased shields) so the Phased-Polaron Beams are less scary. I'm up against an AI that uses PPB's and got used to staying out of range (I only had standard shields on the ships in that region), and in one battle (tactical, not strategic) thought I was in trouble when I failed to stay out of range. Then, as I watched the enemy fire, I realized I had finally gotten ships with phased shields deployed... what a relief... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Hi,

I find your dilemma fascinating. I'm just glad I'm not in your shoes. I know I'm an SE4 neophyte, but looking at weapon mounts, if you use Extended Range or Dreadnought mounts your engine killing weapons will outrange his PPBs by 2. (Unless he's using D mounts also, which I take it he's not.)

You can put ER mounts on anything Destroyer sized or larger, so you could put cheap shield depleater/engine killers against his big guys and leave them sitting ducks for your main fleet, assuming your main fleet was using ER or D mounts also.

Forgive me if I'm suggesting an unworkable option, but this just jumped out at me. You have one big advantage and that is tactical and strategic maneuverablility. Those Monitors are slow. Even if they can form any warp point they like, it still takes them time to move around to kill/take your planets. If you build SDs and smaller you can move c50% faster around systems. You can also collect replacements faster, which should allow you at least a local, temporary superiority.

Hope some of this has helped.


Vaya con nukes,
V'ger gone

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

"dreadnaught and extended range mounts" - what are these? do they exist in the standard game ... I know that starbase weapons get range bonuses but do any basic ship mounts?

"mines for planet defence" - well, one problem is the units in space limit (4000) - I have 270 odd planets to defend (about 14 mines a planet!) another is the limit of mines per sector 100 + deployment load ... say 175 as a maximum with an abusive mine layer strat - it's childs play to design a large mine-sweeper that can clear 100 mines a turn - 2 of these babies with every fleet and the mines are worthless.

......

Dilemma aside, it is a damned amusing game and the closest thing to a competitive space opera I've ever played ...

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
One of the biggest problems I see is if you have 150 ships and he has 150 ships how can anyone maneuver? If you could disable the engines of the first rank of ships then all his other ships would be sitting ducks!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If your opponent has 150 ships, and puts them all in one sector... he can attack one of your planets and win, while you attack 150 of his planets...

I don't think he meant all in one single engagement, although that would be a sight.

PvK

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mordante:
...
4)“fighter combination attacks” – fighters to draw the big guns, yes, I could see that working – until he orders standard base ship designs to ignore them and lets the custom pdc’s engage the skirmishers! But a battle could be won that way I think.
....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After using this tactic with cheap-o fighters, you can switch to sending in fighters that can hurt ships (e.g. rocket pods). If he's told his PPB's to ignore them, they might be able to get through the PDC's. You can also send in cannon-fodder fighters and other seekers to absorb PDC fire from the bombers.

PvK

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1)choice of battlefields/choke points – not an option I fear, I already have 3 maximum range (500ly) renewable (ie. Onboard repair) warp point constructors myself (each tied to a fleet) and I expect a similar capacity from my enemy. From my front line I can target his rear territory and I expect a similar advance from him when the time comes. Thus choke point defence (mines/satellites etc) will be irrelevant since the warp points will be newly placed. I can see able practical way to force the battle in nebulas either<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uhmm. Don't you know about the 10 WP limit?
Just like the "can't create stars if more than zero" thing, you can't add new WPs if theres already 10 in a system.

So activate those WP openers, and shield your systems by interconnecting them till no more WPs can be added.

Then, WPs cannot be opened into your territory, and you can force the enemy to travel through chokepoints.

The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

After all my refit woes, a more amusing puzzle; in the endgame of a pbem (turn 100+) my big rival has expanded massively and built a fleet of giant base ships to oppress the galaxy. His race is no maintenance and can simply keep building.

Mine is crystal-tech, attack advantage, movement advantage (+1)

The bulk of my enemies fleet is likely to be equipped with base-ships like this one;

"Tyrant mk 3"

1xBridge
5xCrew
5XLifeSupport
2x Quantom Engines (+3 move)
1x Solar Sail3 (+3 move)
1x Combat sensors 3 (+65 attack)
1x ECM 3 (+60 defense)
1x Multiplex Tracking 5
1x Stealth armour (cloak and defense bonus)
1x Emergency Propulsion 5
1x Self destruct device
6x Phased Shield Generator 5
5x Point defense Cannon 5
10x Massive Phased Polaron Beams

So, the above monster moves 8(4 in combat) - can take 2250 points of shield damage in combat and deals 2500 points of phased damage at range 6 per combat turn.

The question is, how to defeat a fleet of these vessels with finesse? (inferior odds/improved efficiency) There are likely to be around 150 of them in the main offensive when he comes over the border.

My empire can support a defensive fleet of around 150 similar vessels - but would struggle to put more of the them in the field at any one time.

I have access to all technology and can build at around 6000/6000/6000 resources a turn at my best planets.

So the challenge is to design a defender design that can deal with this ship in detail ... not just winning 1 on 1, but also engagements with inferior numbers ... ideally i'd like to be able to halt the advance of the main 150 strong fleet with half the defending ships to free up my remaining strength to counterattack....

All thoughts appreciated

AndyC

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

re warp point limit - no, i didn't know that - very interesting and useful piece of knowledge - thanks ...

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Note on missiles and WMGs:

When I've been fighting the AI recently, I noticed them doing the infamous "missile dance" to my planet- i.e. they were FLEEING from the enemy while waiting for a recharge, then coming back to fire again.

Something to think on.

Oh, and bomb his main contstruction worlds, steal resources via intel.. etc. Remember that with plague bombs and smart bombs you don't have to hit more than once- and knocking out a spaceport in a system HURTS, if only until it can be rebuilt.

EDIT: BTW, if at all possible use Black Hole or Nebula bLasts on his stars. While the standard SD can't be blocked, it leaves behind remenats of planets that can be rebuilt. The black hole, when disappated.. leaves a blank space. They have to reignite the star, and no planets at all!

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 06 June 2001).]

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Your enemy has ships with PPB each giving a damage of 250kT, isn't it? You have crystalline technology with crystalline armor III each reflecting 15kT damage to your shields. So if you build ships with at least 17 crytalline armors, which certainly is possible with baseships you can't be hurt by his weapons. Use yourself either shield depleting weapons plus any potent normal weapon or nullspace weapon. Of course he soon will change his ship design and use other weapons, which will penetrate your crystalline armor, but you will get time, which you can use to destroy his colonies.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

One thing you can do to make the Engine Destroying weapons useful is put them on a smaller hull, like a destroyer. That gets a +25 to defense, put on stealth and scattering armor +30 to defense, put on ECM 3 +60 to defense, train the ship and fleet to max before using them +40 to defense. I haven't used engine destroying weapons with this strategy, but I've used PPB's at max range succesfully against battleship and dreadnought sized ships. They ended up having something like a 1% chance to hit even with a combat sensor.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

"engine destroyers/small hulls" - I can see the advantages - but i do wonder about their ability to avoid all hits in a target rich environment. Unfortunately my racial traits produce an additional -20% defence bonus so my vessels will not be very good at dodging. That said, I am beginning to see the advantages of sticking 1 engine-killing cannon on everything ... even if i lose the engagement it will stop the fleet moving on.

PS. to anyone interested in the political situation of this game have a look at the "face of the enemy" - narrative thread elsewhere ...

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Of course, whether or not engine-killers are a good idea also depends on his degree of support (namely, repair ships -- and possibly resupply? I don't recall what happens to supply with a destroyed engine), and how much damage you can inflict before the fleet is repaired. If you can't take advantage of the (quite possibly temporary) immobilization / slowing down, engine-killers won't be a good idea.

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taqwus:
...I don't recall what happens to supply with a destroyed engine), and how much damage you can inflict before the fleet is repaired...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC, a repaired engine (after being a destroyed component) gets no supply directly unless of course you have a QR or Solar Collectors or are at a planet with a Resupply Depot. Also IIRC, a ship / fleet will be repaired as long as it is in the same sector as a SY or RepairBay and has at least 1 component left intact. The rate of repair depends on SY's and RB's levels and numbers of them (they do stack).

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

re: plague bomb ships..

Assuming he doesn't have sensors everywhere, park a cloaked SYS near one of his systems. Now crank out a few cheap, fast DISPOSBLE escorts and send them at the planets, especially planets with no ship defenders.(chances are they wouldn't survive dropping their load no matter what, so..)

Phoenix-D

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

I once ran into a problem where I my small three system empire was attacked by a fleet of twenty ships (most of them cruiser or above)

I sent a small fleet out with this combo:

3 destroyer all shields
2 frigates, all engine killers

I only got 1 ship but that was enough. Rather than dropping the movementless ship they kept in the fleet and sat there for ages. Once their supply ran out and I had emassed a large enough fleet I sent in missile ships and boarding ships, gained a lot of tech.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

Regarding;

"crystalline armour and massive guns" - the problem is that the armour doesn't pump the shields until it is damaged (assuming it survives the damage) and since the massive phased polarons are doing 250+ the armour belt is mostly destroyed at the first volley rendering later shield augmentation mimimal. I have seen crystalline armour clad ships work well against low damage organic cannons but not against massive endgame damage.

"hit and runs with starbase smart bombs and plague warheads" - is there any way to effectively program a ship to hit the planet in combat-mode once and then withdraw for a continued strategic move? Since the ship only needs one pass it's survival chances would be greatly enhanced by getting out of close proximity fast once it's paylaod strikes.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZeroAdunn:
I once ran into a problem where I my small three system empire was attacked by a fleet of twenty ships (most of them cruiser or above)

I sent a small fleet out with this combo:

3 destroyer all shields
2 frigates, all engine killers

I only got 1 ship but that was enough. Rather than dropping the movementless ship they kept in the fleet and sat there for ages. Once their supply ran out and I had emassed a large enough fleet I sent in missile ships and boarding ships, gained a lot of tech.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This works well against the AI, but a human would sacrifice the movementless ship. Or at least send a repair ship to rescue it; maybe with a ship or two defending the movementless ship.

[This message has been edited by DirectorTsaarx (edited 07 June 2001).]

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mordante:
Regarding;

"crystalline armour and massive guns" - the problem is that the armour doesn't pump the shields until it is damaged (assuming it survives the damage) and since the massive phased polarons are doing 250+ the armour belt is mostly destroyed at the first volley rendering later shield augmentation mimimal. I have seen crystalline armour clad ships work well against low damage organic cannons but not against massive endgame damage.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beg to disagree. It has been shown mathematically that unless you can deal more damage than can be pumped back in by the CA, you can NEVER hurt the CA ship!!!

Here is the thread that demonstrates it (it's the original post in the thread that you are interested in):
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/For.../001307-3.html

Hope you find the thread informative. I did.

------------------
May your Life prosper and your Dreams be sweet.

edit = typos

[This message has been edited by dumbluck (edited 08 June 2001).]

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I beg to disagree. It has been shown mathematically that unless you can deal more damage than can be pumped back in by the CA, you can NEVER hurt the CA ship!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, not quite http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
If you drain the shields, and then hit with a high-damage weapon, you will hurt the ship.

625 shields, tons of crystal armor.
WMG hit, 300 damage.
325 shields, ToCA.
WMG hit.
25 shields ToCA.
WMG hit. 275 damage destroys one crystalline armor segment.
300 shields ToCa minus 1.

From then on, if you have no shield regenerators, and at least 300 crystal effect points left, then you will not be hurt further.

The enemy could always refit their ships to alternate shield depleters and Massive PPBs.

Then the Shield depleter kills your shield, the PPB destroys one crystalline armor while recharging your shields, repeat till death.

Of course, a shield depleter plus Crystalline shards will not recharge your shields and your armor will be useless.

Re: The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)
 

dl,
I think this would not help just yet. IIRC he is using regular shields and facing PPB's so he might as well not have any shields.
Once he has phased shields your strategy should work.