Technology Research Suggestions
 

I am putting together a new tech list for races to research. It will have all the old techs plus some more realistic technology paths. If anyone has suggestions to add please feel free as well adding what facilities/weapons/component would come from the research of that particular tech. Thanks.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Break up the stellar manipulations to the ends of different branches.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

How about providing two extra branches for some of the lesser used beam weapons and DUC's. One branch does extra damage but has an accuracy penalty and one has a large range increase and an accuracy bonus. This might give some variety to the design/strategies employed.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Definitly more DUC's, how about 'mass drivers', 'gauss cannons' and my personal invention the 'Asteroid Sling'(uses a tractor beam/projectile tech qualification, should be 3 or 4 turn reload, uses tractor beams to hurl an asteroid at a ship, horribly innaccurate, but Massive damage!)..

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"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Hmmm... "Asteroid Sling"... is that anything like "Butt in a Sling"? Or maybe a "Highland Fling"? Or even "Static Cling"? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Naturally, extend all tech levels so the end of research dosen't hit so soon.

-Modify engines so speed is based on thrust/mass. (engines per move is proportional to mass)

-Swap around shield techs, so they have a smoother improvement as techs rise
-Alternate normal shields and phased, with phased being the same(or slightly weaker) strength but one tech higher.
-Have regenerators require shield tech plus some sort of shield support tech. (definitely fix the SR 5, since it is worse in every way than an SR4)

-Improve armor so its useful.
-Either lower the cost, improve the hitpoints, reduce size, or a combination of the above, so that they are an alternative to shields (make them equal, but different, so they're better in some situations, but worse in others. Encouraging the use of BOTH armor and shields on the same ship is best)

-Add crossover techs: combination of racial techs gets new components, could apply to standard techs too (ie. WMG + APB = Antiproton wave cannon)

-Spread out resource costs so they're not ALL minerals http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

-Add Heavy missiles/ Mini missiles, multiple PD options.

-Add more weapons that use the more interesting damage types. (Quad to shields missile, Phased missile, Null-space ramming warhead http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif)
-Mines should have LOTS of warhead damage types.

-Price vs durability mounts for non-weapon components.
-Size vs price/durability for non weapons

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

All the suggestions in the previous email are excellent, however some require hard code changes and can't just be done from the research tree files.

One thing that struck me was how cool it would be to have mines that have shield and engine damaging components. That way you could have a minefield and a Capture ship just waiting for enemies with new tech http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

... delurking ...

Aint it possible to modularize the different new techareas ?

In that way that anyone can submit a techarea to you and you pack them all ?

Though I´ve never modded anything, I´m willing to try this - make a techarea and than send it to you, if it works.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All the suggestions in the previous email are excellent, however some require hard code changes and can't just be done from the research tree files.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you happen to be referring to my post, they are all completely possible... in fact most of them I have already implemented in P&N
The ones that are not, are quite easy, and I've already done them, just not in P&N.

The ones that are not in P&N are:
-Size vs price/durability for non weapons
-Mines should have LOTS of warhead damage types.
-Modify engines so speed is based on thrust/mass. (engines per move is proportional to mass)
The first two are obvious, and minor variations on things I've done, while the Thrust/Mass thing is easy too.

ShipSize.txt:
-Modify engines per move to be proportional to mass.
-To prevent overflows, use 2% of the hull mass as the "engines per move" setting.

Components.txt
-Edit all engines to provide 4 to 6 standard movement. Leave bonus movement alone.
-Optionally create larger, heavier engines for larger ships, so you don't have to put 40 engines on a DN (just four 100kT massive engines).

With these settings, your escort (150kT, 3 EPM) with 6 ion engines (10kT, 4 MP) gets 8 movement, while a DS (300kT, 6 EPM) which is twice as heavy moves 4.
A DN (1000kT, 20 EPM) requires five ion engines to get 1 movement point.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Aint it possible to modularize the different new techareas ?
In that way that anyone can submit a techarea to you and you pack them all ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Totally fine, the only problem is keeping the components balanced with other submissions, but that's the job of the guy putting it together http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 07 June 2001).]

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

We're not worthy. We're not worthy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Seriously though. Thrust to mass ratio was the one I thought needed hard coding. Your solution sounds excellent. I hope the other modders consider implementing it because it would add a far greater level of reality to the game.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
Hmmm... "Asteroid Sling"... is that anything like "Butt in a Sling"? Or maybe a "Highland Fling"? Or even "Static Cling"? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Think 'mass drivers' as in

"Mass Drivers have been outlawed by every civilized species!"
"These are uncivilized times!"
"We have treaties!"
"EENK on a PAGE!"


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--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Along the lines of new tech here are some ideas I had:

Rail Guns: Early incredibly cheap tech.
Size: 20
Damage: 20 20 20 20
Increaed chance to hit 50
Standard Everything else

Increase the damage done by fighter kamikaze warheads.

Mod weapons engines and supply storage (maybe armor too) to require more radioactives.

Mod life support and crew quarters to require more organics.

Extend current tech areas.

Just some thoughts

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Not sure if anybody is intersted, but I have most of these suggestions in place in a MOD that I'm tweaking. I've done a lot of things... More mine warheads, some changes to shields, armor, remote mining, engines (not based on size, but I might try this.), couple more missile types, another planetary weapon, another point-defense weapon, a couple tweak to some of the ships, bunches more systems types, another quadrant type, and a bunch of other tweaks that I thought were needed. If people are interested, I'll put it up in the download area. BUT it IS a beta right now. I'm currently working on changing the AI to use all the new equipment.
Later,
-PR

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

I'm making a few mods myself. One I recently finished, but haven't had a chance to playtest much is something I did to phase shields. Basically, I just made their strength 315, 330, 345, 360 and 375 instead of the usual progression. I felt the old method was crippling to an AI player (or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it)
when facing me since I don't tend to use PPB very much and if they reach lvl 6 in shields they suddenly get weaker ships.

Another thing I've done is make the fighter equipment require lvl 1 fighter tech and left the other tech requirements unchanged so the races I have that stay at fighter lvl 1 for awhile can build fighters with better engines, ECM and sensors to make life more painful.

I'm also working on some heavier missiles for missile lvl 6-8 since I've noticed the default AI research is showing the Norak and other missile-using races researching that far. Why not give them even more painful missiles that take multiple hits from a PDC V cannon to kill? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

I'm thinking of modifying the massive planetary shield generator so that it gains strength with higher levels of shield tech (including phase shields at lvl 6) but don't know how far to go and if you can make a facility that requires two tech levels to build.

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--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

[This message has been edited by Sinapus (edited 07 June 2001).]

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Basically, I just made their strength 315, 330, 345, 360 and 375 instead of the usual progression. I felt the old method was crippling to an AI player (or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Same reason I had http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
The only difference between our two methods is that my shield improvements happen linearly with tech level, while yours rise faster at first, then suddenly slow down as the technology matures.
Also, I have phased available earlier (lev2 vs lev6)

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Same reason I had http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
The only difference between our two methods is that my shield improvements happen linearly with tech level, while yours rise faster at first, then suddenly slow down as the technology matures.
Also, I have phased available earlier (lev2 vs lev6)[/b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My technobabble excuse is that phasing the energy matrix in the shields, while protecting against phased energy fire, doesn't provide much benefit otherwise.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My technobabble excuse is that phasing the energy matrix in the shields, while protecting against phased energy fire, doesn't provide much benefit otherwise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I considered that extending the shield to cover phased weapons spreads it thinner, so the phased levels have only a minor improvement in strength over the previous, normal level. "Normal shield" improvements cause the big jumps in strength.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

How about expanding the colonisation procedure through research?

Personally, I think it's far too easy to build colony ships and colonise planets. Colony ships should be far more expensive.

However, how about having to research Domes to allow colonising different atmospheric planets. Or limit colony modules to a specific distance or timescale unless Cryogenics is researched.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Wolvrine: I just salvaged this from an arlir topic...

&lt;COPY PASTE&gt;
Space is big,
Space is dark,
It's hard to find,
A place to park.

While the above statement is undeniably true,
The universe currently simulated by Space Empires is very small and crowded. Within a few dozen turns, most systems have been colonised and explored, and all the empires are sitting in each others' laps.

How about a mod which creates a more "empty" universe? A universe where meeting another empire does not mean you will be squabbling over one another's home systems within a year. I'm thinking more Alien than Star Wars, more Red Dwarf than Trek, more Dark Star than Bab5.

Here's an idea of how to go about it:

First, the map generator files would have to be modded to make colonisable planets/ systems rarer and farther apart. This would increase their value and force players to look beyond their home systems.
Huge maps with fewer empires would also help.

Now, make colony ships and components far bigger and more expensive. I'm thinking maybe 800-1000 kt, with a 700-900 kt colony component and harsh combat modifiers.

Cargo components for smaller ships should be of limited use, forcing players to use large ships for any serious cargo movment. Adjust supply usage/ storage so that long range travel is really expensive for large ships. Different engines for different ship sizes maybe.

Setting up a new colony would now be a *major* investment (and hence a *major* risk)- especially in another system.

New colonies would also be much more vulnerable. This is good, after all it's a long way home. Facilities should take longer to build, so that a new colony does not establish itself and become independent of external defence/ support too quickly.
Each player might only have a few dozen colonies throughout the entire game.

The supply restrictions on bigger ships and cargo restrictions on smaller ones would limit the expansion of infrastructure, so
military domination would then revolve around the strategic placement of fleets, mines, sats, space stations and colonies rather than simply racing to develop the bigger production base and throw ships at the enemy.

Fleets of small ships would be able to roam from system to system and rule over frontier space. However they would be more or less powerless against the defences of established systems. Attacking an enemy system would be an enormous projct.

Remote mining would play a greater role, as would moons, storms and nebulae. Physical warfare would become the Last resort when diplomacy and intel fail, although having good defences around your home systems would be more important than ever.

Some of S_J's mods (ie hardened bulkheads, cheap/ quality mounts) would make good additions since they make ships more individual. Phoenix-D's primitives (still in development, I believe) would also be good here, since their isolation would give them more bargaining power and more effective defences.

It would make for a much slower and more deliberate game, since ships and planets would no longer be "throwaway" items. Combat would be rarer but when it happened it would be truly epic, with loads of allied empires in gigantic battles.

I don't know how the AI would cope with all this but it would be cool for human players - a whole new game with a whole new feel.

Thoughts?
&lt;/COPY PASTE&gt;


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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

That sounds excellent Dogscoff, but how big a project would it be to do all that? Would it require hard code changes or could it be done with the text files? I only bought the game a few months back so I'm still in playing mode. Looking forward to getting my hands dirty with some modding shortly.

I'm currently playing a Large Universe game with all Rock/Oxygen breathing races, restricting colonisation to Home Planet Type and Breathable Atmosphere. Plus I have removed Gas Giant and Ice Planet Colonisers from the Research Tree. With Finite Resources it makes an interesting game. Very few planets are available and each one is vitally important.

Unfortunately, the AI doesn't seem to be handling the restrictions too well http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Love to play a PBEM game like this though.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

Should all be moddable. In fact th hardest part would be altring the galaxy creation, which would in fact be very similar to the current "ancient" setting.

I'v nvr playd finit resourcs but can imagine it being very stressful.

Something just occurred to me - if I conqur a planet with resource storage facilities, does my enemy lose resources? Do I gain them?

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

I remember seeing a mod which had different options for Galaxy creation, allowing fewer planets for each system. I think it's DevNullMod's mod.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Something just occurred to me - if I conqur a planet with resource storage facilities, does my enemy lose resources? Do I gain them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm pretty sure that where resources are physically located isn't tracked. Taking a planet with storage facilities will only increase your capacity, not give you any "plunder". The previous owner of the planet will lose resources, though, but only if you've knocked his capacity below what he had in storage.

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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

This would be a nice touch for MM to implement one day. It would make invasions that little bit more interesting/ important, especially in finite resource games.

The game wouldn't have to track the locations of resources, just assume that if the entire empire's stored resources are at (for example) 40% of maximum storage capacity, then each storage facility is 40% full.

I believe each empire has a certain default amount of storage capacity without any need for facilities. This could easily be factored into the equation.

Something like...

T=empire's total stored mineral resources
M=empire's maximum mineral storage capacity
f=mineral storage capacity of captured facility
d=Empire's "Non-facility" default mineral storage capacity.
X=amount to be transferred to conqueror per captured facility

X=f*((T-d)/(M-d))


...I think. Obviously substitute "minerals" with organics/rads as necessary.

(Dogscoff ducks under desk to await criticism of dodgy maths)

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
And I considered that extending the shield to cover phased weapons spreads it thinner, so the phased levels have only a minor improvement in strength over the previous, normal level. "Normal shield" improvements cause the big jumps in strength.[/b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Argh. Well, so much for toying with Massive Planetary Shield generators. The shield uses the ability Planet - Shield Generation and there is no Planet - Phased Shield Generation ability in abilities.txt. Foo.

Re: Technology Research Suggestions
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by capnq:

Quote:

Something just occurred to me - if I conqur a planet with resource storage facilities, does my enemy lose resources? Do I gain them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm pretty sure that where resources are physically located isn't tracked. Taking a planet with storage facilities will only increase your capacity, not give you any "plunder". The previous owner of the planet will lose resources, though, but only if you've knocked his capacity below what he had in storage.

As an essential component of my blitz strategy I depend upon getting resources from surrendered enemy empires. It keeps me out of bankruptcy in organics/radioactives. It helps to reduce the huge deficit I have in minerals. I am not sure about whether you would get anything from troops landing and taking a planet with storage. But I am POSITIVE that you get all the remaining resources in storage of a surrendered empire.