OT: VISTA
 

Ok, who here is going to go buy this latest MS product? Can your PC even run this bloated POS OS? Is it a POS OS? Is is being sold in a buggy state, or as Microsoft claims, "the most tested peace of software they have ever released."

Is it worth paying $400.00 for? Is is not worth paying $400.00 for? Do we really need it? With Win2k and XP only a few years old, why should we even bother buying Vista?

Given Microsoft's glorious history, would you trust this bit of software on your PC or will you wait until SP 2 comes out?

I am a mixed bag. First I don't think its going to be easy to upgrade, secondly I doubt my computer will run it, and its only 3 years old, and thirdly, I ain't going to pay $400.00 for a bit of software from a company that has a dubious history of releasing crap OS software onto the market, resulting in crashed PC's lost data, and headacks all the while telling people that they upgrade at their own risk.

Nor do I want to run out and buy a new PC just because HP and other have retrofitted some old 2002 junker, gave it a new case, and are now marketing these antiques as Vista Capable ready to use PC's, knowing full well the 99% of them are returned broken, half *** fixed 2002 junkers.

No thanks, I will wait for Vista SP2 or SP3 before risking my data to another Microsaft product upgrade.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Well, I'm not going to upgrade to Vista at this time because I'm OK with using XP. Eventually when I buy a new computer and if it comes with Vista, that's when I'll switch.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Screw Vista XP isn't causing me heartburns. In fact I have never had a problem with XP.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

There is an ancient and often very accurate word for these kind of people... SUCKER

Or as Microsoft says "Caveat Emptor." (Let The buyer beware.)

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Well you can bet your sweet arse that come the next XP update, XP will be causing many "new" problems. Microsoft will introduce a system destabilizing bug that will cause nothing but massive problems for all XP users thus forcing them to go out and buy VISTA.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

End of this year I may buy a new computer, leaning towards yes at the moment. I'm doing well these days what with a new job along with my benefits. I expect it'll have Vista, though I'll keep an eye on it beforehand. I'm a bit anxious actually as I hear horror stories of new computers people buy. My current one doesn't have such problems partly I think because the son of someone my mother knows custom built it. I have an Acer at work which showed me for once what a bad computer can be like.

I wouldn't be staying up all night just to be the first to buy stuff for 3 reasons, off the top of my head.

1. Why spend top dollar when with a bit of restraint and patience you can get it when the cost goes down after the initial bluster.

2. It's just a OS. I will not die if I don't have it, and I am opposed to wasting effort/making more of something beyond realistic standards. Same goes for why I do not go to midnight screenings of movies (but then I hardly bother with cinemas anyway)

3. I control my life. I decide what is important, not get carried away by bluster and hype.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

For many years I used Windows 98 even when XP was available. I was very happy with Windows 98 and it was very stable and rarely had problems. Then I switched to ME which was a mistake. Upgrading from ME to XP was a good move though.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

DO NOT BUY AN HP COMPUTER!!! You have been warned! They refurbish older PC's and then sell them as new. I fell prey to this and I sware to God they do this! Not only did it happen to me, but it has happened to many people including my mother most recently. I told her NOT TO BUY AN HP COMPUTER, but she went out and bought one any ways and a week later the CD Rom stopped working. She called it in to their tech support and after giving them the "new" pc's serial number, was asked if she was "so and so." That her PC had been sent in for repair a year earlier.

HP IS CRAP! THEY SELL USED/REFURBISHED COMPUTERS AS NEW COMPUTERS. They just take the old parts out and put them into a new case and then sell them as new models.

Dell. I cannot tell you not to buy a Dell, but one has to wonder if one should buy a computer form a company that can't even spell its name without using a crooked E. I mean if their that dyslexic would you trust them to build you a computer?

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Is is being sold in a buggy state, or as Microsoft claims, "the most tested peace of software they have ever released."
Yes.

My PC came with ME; its still got a sticker to that effect, but I upgraded to 98, and I've been happy ever since. (Forgiving the hardware issues, such as that powersupply that put out 13v instead of 12v)

As a bonus, all the new exploits simply don't work against it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I am sorry SJ, but isn't moving from ME to 98 a down grade? ME was released in 2000, 98 was released in well, 98.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

If one is looking to buy a PC, I say go here and build what you want. It's reasonably priced for what you get.

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

Re: OT: VISTA
 

That is a cool site Kana. Thanks.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Yeah if I had to buy a custom made PC, that is where I would go, I've had some friend be very satisfied with what they recieved.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Its the selection, I just don't know what would be best. I mean with so many parts choices which parts are the best for my needs.

I would like to have a nice gaming platform for the next three years. So obviously a high end Geforce Card is a must, 2.1 Ghz Duo-Core process would work, and say 1 gig memory with dual 250 gig HD drives. A nice set of DVD/RW/CDRW drives would be needed, and of course very good case cooling and a 600 watt power supply.

Past that.... what is the best MB, do I need better CPU cooling? What about other extras? Should I go with SLI or stick with top of the line Geforce PCIex card?

What about sound, stick with on board or go with something else?

And then there is VISTA... professional or not... I bought Win2k Pro and XP Pro and have been happy with both. So perhaps ****A pro might be the best fit, say for the price.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

With Win2k and XP only a few years old...

XP has actually had the longest life as the top OS from MS (at least, the windows ones). It was never meant to take this long to make Vista...

Plus, Vista only costs $400 if you buy the ultimate edition. You probably don't actually need the ultimate edition, and would be fine with home premium.

Microsoft will introduce a system destabilizing bug that will cause nothing but massive problems for all XP users thus forcing them to go out and buy VISTA.

This sort of paranoia is just as bad as the WPA kill switch malarky. Did they ever do that to any win9x? No. Did they do it to Win2k? No. Will they do it to XP? No. It doesn't make any sense for them to _ever_ do such a thing.

Kana said:
Yeah if I had to buy a custom made PC, that is where I would go, I've had some friend be very satisfied with what they recieved.

Wouldn't it still be cheaper to spend an hour putting the parts together yourself?

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Oh they say they don't do things like introduce bugs but lets face it, if they want people to buy vista, they could do something as evil as introduce a bug into the next and presumably last security update for XP. But will they, well who knows, if someone in programing has a lot of stock in MS and they want to sell it while its on the high side, what better way than to force people to upgrade. Not that these kind of thing never happen and all. No, they would never do such a thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bring this up in two years if were still around here and then we can talk.

Ya building your own system is fine, but there are set backs. Its better that you let someone else build it for you. They also seem to get better prices on parts do to bulk purchases and they warranty their products. If you build your own system and screw things up, your screwed.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

It would ruin them. Think of all the business customers that _can't_ upgrade to Vista until proper product testing cycles are complete, the software they need to do business is updated to work, etc. Tons of business computers still run windows 2000, you know...

Re: OT: VISTA
 

For me upgrading to Vista is out of the question. Built-in DRM crap that won't let me watch a high-def movie that I paid for on my monitor just because it doesn't have the "correct" connectors? No, thank you.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Windows 95
Latest version ("c") worked quite well - as long as you didn't asked for
- networking/internet
- package writing support
- USB
...& other fancy things
Had a Win95 (without a,b,c) run for 3,5 years without any problems - until I replaced it with W2k to be able to use Internet Connection Sharing.


Windows 98
Second version ("Second Edition") is quite a nice OS - for a standalone-PC, again. Security is non-existant. Can't really cope with apps which use 512MB RAM ...


Windows ME
Crap.
Really.
The first try from M$ with the next generation of artifical isolation between user (interface) and whats really going on under the hood - where the unsecure and unstable Win9x base and M$-DOS were still present.
Consumer product with 5 years of "support", which are over by now.


Windows NT 4
With service pack 6 finally an OS that could do more than connect to a network securely. Lacked, nevertheless.


Windows 2000 (NT 5.0)
I'm happy with W2k on all my comps for quite some time now - usually 'til the HDD dies, and then I simply re-install again on the new one.
Sadly, the "Extended Support" will cease on 07-13-2010.


Windows XP Professional (NT 5.1)
If I had to get a new Windows license, I would take XP Professional at any time. It will be supported until 2014.
Windows XP home / media center edition
Castraded crap. Every user having admin rights is the cause for all the trouble with trojans/virii/spy- and addware.

Support for all versions of XP will last 'til 2014, btw.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...WindowsMA.mspx


Windows Vista
You don't have to buy the most expensive verions.
Do you really need
- support for 2 real CPUs ?
- Users/Groups with different rights (NOT everyone admin) ?
- "runas" option ?
- imaging of the system partition for backup purposes ?
- to be able to connect to a domain ?
- remote desktop server (service) ?
- dynamic storage media ?
If you need any of those, you'll have to get the "Business" Edition (369 Euro full, 249 Euro upgrade, 139 Euro system builder version)

If you want to get
- Media Center
- DVD-Replay (MPEG2)
- Moviemaker
as well, please choose "Ultimate" Edition. (499/329/189 Euro)


And what if you DON'T NEED
- DRM
- overboarding hardware requirements
- more colorful desktop
- more hidden system settings
.. what are you going to do ?????????

I simply hope that when support for W2k/XP ceases it will be time to switch to:
http://www.reactos.org/

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I was looking at this myself and think the Business is a better bet because you gain better networking and remote desktop facilities and get rid of the bloaded media centre extensions. But no interest in getting either until I need a new PC.

Ah, missed the second page. ReactOS? WinXP compatible OS? I personally wouldn't be any hurry to donate money to that project and I wouldn't be holding my breath for anything to ever get released either.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I've switched from 98 to XP .. les than 2 years ago ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
So let's wait a couple of years, we'll have a debugged Vista SP2, the DX10 hardware will be affordable and we'll have some software really using it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Upgrade means improving something.
If the AI decided to retrofit your APB XIIs to MB Is, just because you had finally researched Energy Pulse Weapons, would YOU call that an upgrade? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I also went from 98se to Xp pro and I think it's great.

Some of my friends got the home Xp and are having trouble with it (oh well) I'm still running an 1.4g with 1g ram Ati 9200 video Soundblaster Live

It works well playing WoW

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Acutally, they have released v0.3.0 quite some time ago, and it already works with some windows apps - e.g. Firefox can be used for WWW access.
What is a great accomplishment in itself. Coding an OS ain't easy for sure.

Interestingly enough, one of the core developers of ReactOS claims to have found a way to crack Vista's DRM ...
http://www.heise-security.co.uk/news/84536

Re: OT: VISTA
 

How is that being "a mixed back", exactly? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a rather firm "no".

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Then NO it is.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Actually no...I've priced a few 'custom' computers, even stuff from the big names like Dell, and HP. For the price, and the fact that most offer some form of warranty and support (how ever bad it is) above and beyond what even a manufacture gives you really can't beat. I mean if it comes to you, and it doesnt work, or something isn't right, or a lemon, you just return the PC, and you get a new one from them, its called customer service. If you yell loud enough and to the right people you usually will get what you want. If I order the parts, and somehow screw up something installing it, I have little or no recourse to replace said part or even the whole PC. Now it is cheaper, if you want to upgrade a single item like a video card or RAM down the road, yet some of the new machines are a real problem to break down far enough to install the components. Like my current PC will envolve me removing a large chunk of hardware so I can get to the RAM slots.

As for Vista...the only worring point, is that of playing new high end games that require Direct X 10, which is Vista only.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

If a part comes to you and it doesn't work, you can return it just the same. Unless you are buying parts from extremely shady dealers, you are usually ok to return them without even considering going to the manufacturer directly. Newegg.com, for example, has a 1 year replacement policy for many items. Some items only have a 30 day replacement policy, but that's surely enough time to see if anything you bought came broken.

It isn't difficult to buy a case that is easy to work with. You are more likely to get a cramped, crappy case from a whole PC vendor than when you have free reign to choose one yourself.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Vista isn't worth being bribed $1000 to use. It's EVIL.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

No, because ME was released as a TRAP by M$, to get people to look at XP more positively by comparison. Win 98 is massively better than ME. I think Win 2K Pro (behind a Linux firewall) is currently the best version of Windohs, because it's stable, works, and doesn't have so much annoying crap like M$ authentication, and it wastes fewer system resources. The only negative feature I'm aware of is Remote Desktop isn't as good, but if you don't use that... I say upgrade to Win 2K Pro!

PvK

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Vista is:

1. Overpriced

2. High requirements

3. Incomplete and the initial version will be buggy.

4. Vista does have some nice features but none are that "so outstanding, I got to have right now".

Pass on Vista for quite a while. XP pro works fine.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Digital rights abuse / tyrrany and wasted system resources, too.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

There's a rumour going around that SE7 will require DirectX 10. Untill then, I'm happy sticking with XP.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I have also read that it is not very game friendly, and has issues with older games because of its new Direct X drivers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: VISTA
 

The whole DX thing is a nightmare for game developers that may just very well come back to bite M$ in the butt.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Good news... MS announced yesterday that they were already working on Service Pack 1 for Vista. o..m..g.. less than 48 hours after the launch and they make this announcement?

I was gonna buy vista, but guess what, if SP1 is just around the corner (a year or so I guess based on the speed of getting vista out) I'll wait till the bleeding edge (dare I say idiots) finish beta testing vista for MS at their own risk. (and their own expense).

I searched for 'compatibility' with XP and found nothing of use to me. How would I know if any and all my programs will run under vista?

Anyways, I'm gonna wait. XP works fine and I see no urgent need to jump on the bandwagon.

Nuf said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I have read that VISTA DX 10 is going to revolutionize PC gaming. That VISTA will run older Direct X games, but with some problems. In side by side comparison XP is still a better gaming platform than VISTA, however as more and more game developers start to use DX10, this will change.

I wonder if Aaron should adopt Direct X 10 now and start working on updating SE V to use DX10?

I will wait to get VISTA until I have enough money to have a new gaming system built. Perhaps a year or two out. Until then XP will work just fine.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I was thinking of getting a new system when we get to Washington this year. Maybe I will get one with Vista to find out how great it really is; or, isn't! I have built the last three on my own and each has severed me well for several years apiece. On the other hand back then it was still cheaper to build your own. Anymore though I have to wonder.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I have read that VISTA DX 10 is going to revolutionize PC gaming.

Who said that?
We all know how "revolutionary" the Segway turned out to be, for example.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

It was a gamespot article on VISTA and gaming. They seem to be down at the moment, but once it comes back on line I will find the link.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Reading that article really pointed out to me how the computer industry has gotten itself turned around and backwards. Why are the hardware makers conforming to a software maker? Shouldn't it be the software trying to get the most out of the hardware? Imagine how far along the graphics card makers could be if they weren't fettered to a piece of software...

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Use Virtual PC. Run your XP on it.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

That doesn't work very well for trying to run modern or semi-modern 3d games.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

I'm sick of Windows. The question you really have to be asking is, "what do I use my PC for that I couldn't do with Linux?"

For me, the answer to that question is "Absolutely nothing, except Space Empires."

Web browsing, email, office applications, mediacentre-type stuff, plenty of good games... all of it can be done with Linux. And if you buy a PC without an OS (ie, without Windoze) installed, you can save yourself some £$E.

What versions of Windows will SE5 actaully run on? My next PC (if and when I can ever afford one) will run Linux for 99% of the time, and then have a small, stripped down Windows partition (running a hooky version of 98 or 2000 or XP, NOT Vista) exclusively for Space Empires. I wouldn't even need to go online with that partition (thus negating any security concerns) - I could up/download turn files on the Linux side and then just reboot to play the game.

I think we should hassle Malfador for a Linux version of se6, definitely.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Try out this flowchart.

Thing is at first I thought the second question was to weed out idiots, then I realised it just means that choice doesn't run Vista.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

THansk Randall. That was a good laugh.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

According to the readme, SE5 will run on Windows 95. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The real limit is probably DirectX 8.1, which AFAIK isn't available for anything earlier than 98.

Re: OT: VISTA
 

Point of trivia: the SE3 demo runs on win3.11
(You merely can't register it, since there is no registry)

Re: OT: VISTA
 

So I could run a dual boot system, with Linux for all my day-to-day computer needs and a minimal win98 install for SE4 and SE5.

Sounds good to me.