OT: Building a new box
 

Yes, it's that happy time. Time for a new computer!

I have built my own several times before. In fact, only twice have I ever bought pre-built systems, and those were the two most troublesome computers I ever owned.

The big issue, of course, is compatibility.

Some time ago, I saw a website which contained pre-designed and pre-tested system configs. Not that anything was for sale there, this was purely an information site. Just that the editors had designed, assembled, and tested a variety of different systems. And these were listed for viewing.

Do any of you good folks know of this site, or any similar site?

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

The only things you really need to worry about are getting a motherboard that supports the processor you want, and making sure you get the AGP vs. PCI-E matchup right for the video card (you will generally be getting PCI-E if you aren't trying to build a budget box). Other than that, hardware incompatibility is largely a thing of the past. You _might_ have issues if you buy cheap no-name parts, but if you buy anything from decent companies, you shouldn't have any issues with a sound card not working with a video card or such.

I suggest this as a good source of info:

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/...ide-200612.ars

It was written a month ago, and contains info on good parts for 3 levels of PCs, ranging from the budget to the "god box." Each part usually has 2-4 alternatives listed as well.

Among places to shop for parts, newegg.com usually has decent prices, and the try to ship things out quickly, unlike certain south american-jungle type sites. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I know if I was to build a new box I would want a good CPU, a good video card, a solid MB, and lots of ram. But what these parts would be I have no clue. I just don't know enough.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I tend to just ask the computer store tech. I'm not too informed on hardware.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I have done this at Tigerdirect.com many times. They have very reasonable 'barebones' units that you can generally add whatever you want to them. Their barebones units usually come with a case, PS, matched CPU and mobo, as well as RAM; usually a good place to start and then add your video, HD, etc. to taste.

You also don't need to buy any OS with them but you can if you wish.

I have been quite happy with them.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

How do their prices compare to newegg.com? They also offer various barebones systems.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I can second the Tiger Direct recomendation. I've never built a whole system there, but bought many components and never had any problems with them.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I have used NewEgg in the past and TigerDirect has a good reputation as well.

Do some research, etc. I have to re-educate myself every time I get a new computer simply because I don't bathe in the lingo 24/7.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

How is this for a new system?

$1130.00

CASE:
X-Cruiser Mid-Tower 420W Case W/ WINDOW, MultiMeter Display & Control (Silver Color)

CPU:
(Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6400 CPU @ 2.13GHz 1066FSB 2x1MB L2 Cache EM64T

MOTHERBOARD:
(Quad-Core Supports) Asus P5N-E nForce 650i SLI Chipset LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2 Mainboard

MEMORY:
(Req.DDR2 MainBoard)1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory

VIDEO CARD:
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS 512MB PCI Express x16

VIDEO CARD 2:
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS 512MB PCI Express x16

HARD DRIVE:
Single Hard Drive (250GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)

Optical Drive:
18X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER
Optical Drive 2: 16X DVD ROM

SOUND:
HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I get a "Service Unavailable" message from that link Fyron.

AT, I'd suggest 2 gigs of RAM instead of just 1.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

They've been upgrading the forum software recently. It seems to be working now.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Looks good AT, though I agree with Renegade to make sure you get a second gig.

What OS? Are you going to get Vista on it?

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

You might want to spring an extra $30 to get a Chaintech AV 710 sound card. Your ears will thank you for not subjecting them to onboard audio needlessly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Thank you for those tips guys. The OS would be VISTA o/c http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif but I am sure with SP 1 it will at least be nearly as good as XP for gaming by then.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Vista is evil. Just say NO!

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I am so pathetic.... I am actually considering buy a computer when I know that I am burned out on PC gaming, most likely won't live past another year, and already have five PC's. WTF am I thinking? And to boot VISTA!!!???? Please someone just shoot me.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Wah?

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Atrocities, you need some remedial SE3 under win3.11 on a 66mhz 486.

Also, take two Scorched Earth and a Doom2 and call us in the morning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

No, no, no onboard sound, thank you.

I'll get the best sound card Creative Labs sells, short of the musician-equipment ones. Having used an Audigy2 for the last 3 years, I'm spoiled!

And damn sure no Vista. I know MS too well to buy the first generation of any new OS like that. Cutting edge is one thing, bleeding edge is something else.

Hell, this is going to be my first bawx with XP. I'm still running 98SE on my current rig http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And definitely at least 2 gigs of RAM, possibly 3 or 4.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Atro, the desire for a new bawx is like the desire for a new GF - Too strong to be denied, and too irresistible to bother apologising for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Main difference is, I'm usually happy with a new 'puter for at least a year http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

"Show me that gamer who is not passion's slave."

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Keep in mind if you get 4 GB of RAM Windows will only address about 3.2 GB. This applies to both Vista and XP.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Possum said:
No, no, no onboard sound, thank you.

I'll get the best sound card Creative Labs sells, short of the musician-equipment ones. Having used an Audigy2 for the last 3 years, I'm spoiled!

In terms of audio fidelity, creative cards are not much better than on-board chipsets. Also, Creative doesn't make anything that is really appropriate to label as "musician-equipment."

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I wasn't referring to performance problems, but deliberate sabotage of the audio/visual quality when corporate-"owned" content in detected... which is required for any device to be allowed to run under Vista.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

IF, have you actually used any integrated sound recently? There isn't much of a point in getting a seperate card anymore, as most boards will support 7.1 surround no problem, with connections for both 1/8" jacks for "computer speakers" (gonna sound not-so-good no matter where the signal comes from) and either coaxial or optical (or both) S/PDIF for connection to an amplifier for "real speakers". The audio quality is no different between onboard and a seperate PCI card.

It *USED* to be true that you wanted to pay a little extra for a sound card because it was on the same bus as the integrated modem, however, there aren't many system boards that I have seen recently that even bother with modems anymore. The only reason I can think of to buy a seperate soundcard is if:
A) you have an older systemboard or one that does not have adequate sound hardware (or any sound hardware, for that matter)
or
B) you are building a system to do sound recording approaching studio-quality, in which case you probably will want something a little pricier, with an external box connecting to the card with multiple line-ins for mixing.

Anyway, if you're looking for real sound quality, you aren't going to get it from a $30 sound card. Shell out the cash for shielded speakers, a spool of speaker wire (14 gauge is safe for most home sound systems, 12 if you're wiring all through the house, although I know some audio nuts who insist on 10 gauge for a 6-ft connection), and a good amplifier/reciever.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Unless there are motherboards that integrate an Envy24 chipset (which would be awesome), you can still get improved fidelity from a separate sound card... Just having 7.1 channel support and having a coaxial/optical jack is irrelevant if the audio chipset is not very good. Ports != quality. Being on the same bus as the modem is also not particularly relevant, especially if you never used a modem; no longer having a modem doesn't automagically make the audio chipset better technology.

The Chaintech AV 710 is not quite as good as the more expensive Envy24 chipset cards (eg: m-audio revolution), certainly, but it beats integrated and Creative chipsets. I think you underestimate the Chaintech though... I seem to get real sound quality from my $20 Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (an older envy24 budget card) connected to my stereo speakers. Certainly the audio chipset is only one component involved, but it doesn't hurt to go for the best..

For reference, if you want to approach studio-quality recording, you will probably want something from E-mu, not Creative.

Anyways, the point was that you can get better quality sound for less money than buying a Creative card. Or you could get much better quality for about the same money. If you are happy with your integrated chipset, then by all means, don't throw money away on separate cards.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I was actually refering to the earlier post saying spend $30 and 'not subject yourself to onboard sound'. There do exist systemboards that have integrated audio chipsets that are just as good as PCI card audio. I know, for example, that Intel's systemboards have audio chipsets that sample at 192kHz/32-bit. Wikipedia page for Envy24 says it is up to 192kHz/24-bit. I know there exist soundcards that are even better than that, but that was your example. My point is, it is not a given that you need to get a seperate soundcard anymore, and more than likely, you will get better sound quality by getting better speakers. As a comparison, there's no point in getting dual SLI cards if your monitor is an old CRT with max resolution of 800x600. Or, if you drive a Ford Pinto, there's no point in putting 91 octane in it insead of 87. And, if you have cheap bundled computer speakers, there's no point in getting better audio chipsets, it's gonna be crappy either way.

--edit: I should also note I'm not against soundcards. My current main system has a 5.1 surround card made by Maya (not sure if they're still in business). It's hooked up with a "high-end" set of computer speakers, 90W 5.1 setup from altec lansing. I use the soundcard because I have a board that is 4 years old and has only AC97 codec w/ 3x 1/8" jacks (line out, line in, mic), stereo sound. I'm most likely building a new system in late spring/early summer, and it's not getting a sound card until I get a proper speaker setup for it, and even then, I'm not getting a sound card unless I determine that the onboard isn't adequate. Since I'm going for very high-end boards, it's likely the sound will be fine compared to seperate cards.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

I don't think there is any point to the extra gradations of 32 bit over 24 bit for sound... E-mu external audio devices don't bother going 32-bit, and they are very highly regarded. Even Creative sticks with 24 bits for their audigy xi-fi stuff. 32-bit appears to be snake oil.

You will get better sound quality with better speakers (esp. by going with real speakers and not PC speakers). You will get better sound quality with better chipsets. You will get better quality with both. Speakers certainly make more of a difference, but that doesn't mean a better sound card will be pointless.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Fyron, I take vigorous exception to your comments slamming Creative.

As far as speakers, the output from my Audigy2 goes into my JVC stereo amplifier, and thence to a pair of 25-year old studio monitors with 15" woofers. I grant you that speaker technology has made huge advances since my speakers were new, but the old ways do still work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oh, and a (hopefully) amusing anecdote about these speakers. One time back about 10 years I noticed the sound quality on the left speaker had fallen off quite a bit. Checking wires revealed nothing to blame it on. Finally I snapped the cover off, looked inside carefully, and found that a mouse had built himself/herself a nest inside. Was this rodent DEAF? Who knows...

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Since we're on the topic of sound and speakers...

I've got a couple ~25 year old speakers, massive things, each connected to the stereo with about 15 feet of wiring. Every once in a while, the left speaker will halfways cut out, put out a lot of static, and then for no apparent reason, fix itself. Any ideas what the problem could be?

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Creative makes mid-range quality equipment that they bill as top of the line. What can I say?

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Could be a lot of things. Could be you got some critters in residence inside like Possum did, or maybe your speaker wire is being bumped and it's affecting the connection, or maybe the speakers are not adequately shielded and are being affected by line noise or RF noise, which could be coming from any of the surrounding electronics. Cell phones are notorious for this, when they are negotiating a handshake with the tower. You can get about a half to full second warning that your cell phone is going to ring if you leave it beside an unshielded speaker.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

First thing I'd do is replace the wires. No guarantee at all, but it doesn't cost much or take long, and eliminates one possible cause.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Dare I say...perhaps a possum? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

You all have posted more about sound than I ever knew was possible. I love the fact that there are so many informed folks posting here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I would have been happy with a basic 16 bit sound card, but now, now I am totally confused. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif But thanks to you all, I am learning and that is a good thing.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

If you want to be really confused, you should check out Hydrogen Audio.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

But, how do you know we are all really informed? Do you have any proof that we're not really a bunch of ignorant blowhards talking out our asses? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I mean, we could just be making it up as we go...

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead...but I am looking at possibly building a new PC instead of going with the Dell laptop route.

Take a look at these components... right here...yes, this button.

How does that look to everyone? I'm looking to stay around $1000.00 mark.

Thanks!

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

The new Intel Bearlake chipset (P35--which supports DDR 3, etc.) is out now...you may want to look at that...

GB

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

As always, Ars Technica's system building guide is practically required reading.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Ya I think its time that I finally break down and invest in a new system. I am going to have one built though. Probably have to finance it. This HP POS is five years old now.

My question to one and all is this, do I go with Vista Home Premium or XP Pro 2nd Edition? I am leaning toward the Vista system because it costs less, but I am still not sure about VISTA over XP. The Devil you know I guess.

Re: OT: Building a new box
 

Probably won't happen, but hey, I can dream!

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