Javelin throwing units
 

Whats the best way to use these things? I've played Vanheim a few times, and the javelin guys have me very confused. In my mind, they sound great...wait until the enemy moves close enough, fire javelins then charge in...in practice, they stood there and took the charge. Whats the best set of commands to have them stand and wait, fire when the closest enemy reaches their range, then attack? Thank you

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Either hold and attack if you know the enemy will be in range or else give them no order/fire closest, they should get into range and fire until charged or they run out of ammo

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Fire closest. But even with that they'll often fire only once, or not all of them, because they tend to be engaged in melee before they can fire a second round of javelins.
With Pyhtium, I like to put Velites on fire closest on the side while the main legionaires stand in the middle with fire or attack closest. That way, velites do throw their javelins without getting caught in melee, if they can flank the opponent a little.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

I like to set them to the side of infantry and slightly farther back. That way they tend to get off more than one volley.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

The best way to use themis not give any orders at all. If you set javelins on hold and attack, they will NOT use them, because javelins are missile weapons. You could put the javelins somewhat further back from the front so that they take a turn or two to charge to the front line, at whoch point they will still throw javelins but won't have charged ahead to be slaughtered.

There REALLY needs to be a hold and fire command...

Edi

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Units on 'hold and attack' will fire a missile weapon for the first few turns, if they have one and are in range

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

If only units with "guard commander" orders would fire when ennemies are in range ...

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

In my experience the hold and attack with javelins does work so long as the enemy attacks right away and your javelin troops aren't too far back.

My main problem with javelins is that they are not very accurate and tend to hit your own troops. My pet peeve with shooters is when they continue to fire at very long range and kill your own troops after the enemy army is routed.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

try using units with good armor and/or shields as your main force. Units with 10+ armor and equippend with shield won't take much damage from ranged attacks.

I usually have the heaviest infantry I can recruit set to hold and attack in the front, with fast units flanking set to hold and attack rearmost (or sometimes attack archers)

I often script my own archers to fire archers, as ennemy's archers or others ranged units are more likely to have less armor, or to have mages near them that a lucky arrow could kill. And while my archers fire at the opponent's, they don't fire into the melee.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

I use Fire Closest and tend to deploy them in wide lines rather than deep formations, which avoids friendly fire. And/or javelineers on the flanks on Fire Closest with plain melee in the center.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Many units have fire power with rotten aim. But if you think like them you can usually see the problem. Try using the page-down key to drop to their view level and see the battlefield. To avoid friendly fire you need to position your shooters off to the side. Or have them do long arching fire such as "fire at archers".

I like to set them at the sides and then use a cheap commander with guards on orders to attack then stay at rear. That makes the run forward, draw attention, then pull back. The enemy chases them up the gauntlet between my crowds of shooters. That works particularly well for javelins since they get off 3 volleys and then charge in on the sides to use melee weapons.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

I only use the starting light inf as fodder for my first battle and never recruit any more.
When set to "fire" they charge in melee and/or get charged but usually don't fire. And if ever they fire it doesn't make any serious damage... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Wow, first battle and then never again? That must be a quick game.

Their position can make a big difference. Telling them to fire can make them run forward to try to get into range. But then the enemy is on them before they get their next action.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

I wish there was a more sensible retreat order. I would really love to harass with skirmishers and then pull them back, especially when playing ea Ermor. As of now you either throw them into the fray where they get mangled or you have them on retreat, meaning that they throw their javelins and then scatter all over the place. Sigh. Oh well.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Only using them once is probably why he doesn't know how to use them and is wrong about how well they work. Javelineers work quite well with the right orders and formation, at least against a typical AI-organized army. Use Fire Closest and they stop and throw before charging into melee, unless something manages to cross the gap first (e.g. charging cavalry).

PvK

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Got to say I am not a big fan of javelin units, they are in my naff/rubbish draw.

However, one exception to that rule is the giant javelin throwers, they due to there strength for both range and damage are excellent.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Both the "Rome" races have very good javelin heavy infantry. The problem with most javlineers is that they are almost exclusively light infantry-based. The principe has 12 protection and 16 defense as well as a tower shield and shortsword. They are ideal for use against both neutrals and the AI, which masses light infantry and archers. Principes are virtually invulnerable to archers, and the javelin/shortsword combination makes short work of light troops. True to their history, these legionaires are best used in one large mass, as the rearward units can fire over the top of their comrades in front, into the mass of enemy. A large mass of principes in the middle with summons on the sides to protect the commanders is a nearly-unbeatable combination against the AI.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

I'm a really big fan of javelin units, myself. As blitz statest the roman versions of those units are great. But even with a "regular" empire, you often have LI that has a javelin. These cheap troops can really fill out an army and provide a surprising punch with thier javelins before they move in to take some pressure off your HI army core.

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

I love javelin infantry. I never give them any orders. They don't need any, because then the AI isn't constrained in its options and it can usually use them to good effect. The key thing is positioning the stacks correctly so that they don't get too far ahead to get slaughtered.

It seems to me that javelin units without orders will move to throwing range and use their javelins until they run out of them, while with hold and attack I've never seen them use them.

Edi

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

I was talking about LI-type javelin infantry whose javelin is the main weaopn, not about HI-types (Ermor/Pythium) or cavalry or even Vans (who have javelins !).
And I use them as fodder for several battles as long as they survive (which is not that long).
I mostly play MP also.
Anyway if they behave better when scripted not scripted rather than scripted to Fire there is something weird in the Tac AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Javelin throwing units
 

Generally speaking the difference between LI javlineers and heavy infantry is 3-5 gold and some resources. I will occasionally use LI javs to expand (Ctis, etc), but the units are going suffer heavy casualties against almost anything. Such units in my experience are best not used unless absolutely required for early expansion, as they are not very cost-efficient when you consider their casualty rate. If you like javs, go with Ermor/Py and mass them... most other races don't do it well enough.