New Dawn - EA Dawn of Dominions
 

Hey all,

A group of friends and I are putting together a Dawn of Dominions game, and decided to throw it wide open - since there's only five of us, that still leaves plenty of vacancies. This is conditional on one generous soul offering server hosting, because we don't have the time or energy to run a PBEM game.

UPDATE - Ich will host our game.

Currently, nations are as follows-

Taken - Arcoscephale (Mind Elemental), Agartha, C'tis (LeSquide), Ulm (AI)

Taken by Shrapneleers-
Oceania - Dedas
Ermor - Amhazair
Vanheim - Beefeater1980
Caelum - Ich
Marverni - Darrel
Helheim - Reverend Zombie.
Kailasa - DryaUnda

72 h quickhost
Renaming on
All else at default

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I would like to try Sauromatia please.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I'd like to join as Kailasa.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I think I can fit a nice and slow game into my busy dominions schedule http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'd like to play Ermor.

Edit: I'm willing to surrender my spot to a potential host if he wants to play Ermor. )

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Awesome, we only need four more! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Since 72h is alot of time, I think I'll be able to fit in here. I'd like to play Vanheim, but only because of their magic paths, not their blesses, I swear! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Have you found hosting now?

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I will take an attempt as Marverni.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I'd like to play as Lanka.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I'll play as Caelum

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Lanka? It be impossible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I'd like Mictlan please

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Still no hosting, I'm afraid.

Sorry K & Methel, no Lanka or Mictlan on this map.

We now only have one slot free, Helheim.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I can't promise anything yet, but if it's possible for me to host the game then I'll do it. Which depends on how much the firewall is hampering me, though.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Excellent! Hopefully your firewall will cooperate! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I'll take Helheim, please.

Thanks!

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Okay, I am fairly certain that I can provide hosting. Just tell me how we should do this... everybody sends me their pretenders? Or can I set up a MP game remotely with empty nations on a dedicated server and start after everybody has uploaded their pretender? I have no graphical login. Help!

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Okay! Welcome aboard, Zombie - and hold on tight, everyone, we're now full up!

Hmm... I kind of prefer letting everyone upload their pretender directly to the server. However, if that wouldn't work for you, then we can email pretenders - it shouldn't make too much of a difference.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Okay, I'll try to get the server up in a short time, might take a couple of days, though.

BTW, do you want to use the original Dawn map from the game or this one? http://www.dom3minions.com/games/dawn.jpg

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Hi all,

I am an old time wargamer, but newish to Dominions 3. (I will still kick your butt at it.) I will be playing the Vanheim position for Ich, as he feels he has taken on too much and is a bit overwhelmed atm.

I am committed to finishing games that I start, so no worries on that front. I like playing Vanheim, too, so this should be fun.

SR

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Yep, StrictlyRockers asked about playing a EA game in the Dominions IRC channel, and since I have lots of work in front of me on very short notice, I am quite happy to give the position over to him.

I will still take care about the hosting, though, and I expect that I should be ready by this weekend, maybe even tomorrow.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Sorry, dude, the link isn't working for me. What's the difference?

Welcome, StrictlyRockers! Ich, thanks for hosting anyway, and hope to play with you another time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Perhaps we could use the Worthy Heroes mod?

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

1) I wouldn't mind the mod, but I wonder about the hassle of getting everyone to DL and install it. What does everyone else think?

And while I'm polling everyone:

2) Should we set some kind of special victory condition (such as capital VPs - get 2/3rds to win)

3) Should we have some kind of limit on blesses?

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I'd encourage using the Worthy Heroes mod, but I wouldn't use the CB mod incase somebody is suggesting it because the game has to be played quite differently from the way that players are used to, and it's still under lots of fine-tuning development by qm.

Since I'm not playing myself, I don't vote on Victory Points.

Why do you want to limit blesses? And how? Blesses require lots of points in pretender design, that's already limiting their usage, and there's still diplomacy against too strong players. But if you want to nerf Helheim and Vanheim, okay.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Well, Dawn is not that huge a map, IIRC. You could conceivably take an imprisoned pretender, Sloth, and Death, and with the Cold 1, have more than enough points to go nuts with W9F9 Helhirdings. I've seen suggestions in other games icluding 'limit 9+ blesses to awake pretenders', which might help.

Still, what do you think?

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I am playing a W9F9 Helheim on another server and I am getting the [censored] beaten out of me by all of my four neighbours which attacked me together because they got intimidated by the "zOMG overpowered!" hype. That's kinda overdoing it, but if you really think that some facehugger nation has an unfair advantage then there is still diplomacy to take care of them. Nobody can take on more than two players at once.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I don't mind downloading and installing mods. That should not be a problem.

I like province-based victory conditions. Control of 2/3 of all provinces seems a bit high to me. I think control of 1/2 of all provinces might be sufficient, but I am easy, 2/3 will work fine, too.

I am not in favor of nerfing races or spells at this point. The game seems balanced enough, and coalitions do happen.

SR

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

This is going to be a very imbalanced game. Not only is it a small map, everyone also knows the starting locations of everybody. This will make bless very deadly. But also very deadly will be SC pretenders.Someone could very early take an SC pretender, and take a neighbor out within the first few turns.

But what will balance things a little bit is the fact that since everyone will know who their neighbors will be ahead of time, they can create a setup during pretender creation that will best counter those nations. I am playing as the Marverni, which is one of the worst nations for handling small map blitzes. But i picked that nation because of that, and it will be a fun challenge to come up with an effective defence strategy using them. So let everyone be warned. The druids are ready, and should you try to invade marverni lands, you will be promptly expelled.

The best way I can think of to balance things would be if we have a rule that says no nation can attack another for the first ten turns or so.That will give everyone a chance to build up some sort of defense.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Hey, I'm one of the guys Mind got from outside the board. I'd approve of bless limitings mostly because I personally find them rather dull pickings for a game, and enjoy the more intricate balancing act that comes from requiring people to be more sparing. Pushing for awake pretenders doesn't nerf anyone--the 'heims are still very powerful--but it doesn't unfairly benefit one side over another to the same degree.

I'm also not aware of the Worthy Hero mod, nor have I ever downloaded one of these maps before. How do I do that, which do I get, and so on?

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

A SC rush strategy sounds pretty deadly on a small map where opponents' positions are already known. Having a dormant pretender sounds like a very bad idea here.

What sorts of limitations are people thinking of for bless - some sort of limitations on the levels and combinations of different paths of magic? Are people worried about blessed sacred troops that get uber-powerful?

SR

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

An early SC that can take indies alone is much much easier to counter than heavily blessed Helhirdings.

Perhaps we could agree that pretender must be awake or sleeping, not imprisoned. That would make a heavy bless harder to pull off.

The thing is, though, that EA Vanheim and Helheim are so strong they can rush many nations even with no bless and usually win.

Mods are installed by placing the .dm file in \dominions3\mods folder. The host determines what mods are used in any given game. I attached the Worthy Heroes mod to this post.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Based on geography, can anyone other than Ulm and Vanheim easily reach Helheim? And similarly, does anyone other than Marverni and Helheim border Van? Diplomacy is always an option, but mobbing the Heims might not be too easy on this map.

I'm most concerned about the W9F9 Heim bless, even though that's not invincible. I see two alternatives, which we could use individually or together:

- Limit 9+ blesses to awake/sleeping pretenders, similar to what Teraswaerto suggested. (I'd favour letting people pick imprisoned, non-bless pretenders, though - although I don't know if it would be very wise to pick a scalemonster on a smallish map like this.) This may have the side effect of encouraging SC pretenders, though even then they'd be one lucky Soul Slay or Horror Mark or even Sleep away from being stopped. It may also go a bit far in nerfing Kailasa, whose sacreds are IIRCC horribly vulnerable to missiles.

- Have a truce for the first X turns, as Darrel suggested.

Thoughts?

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Helheim practically borders Kailasa, there is a tunnel under the big mountain, 143 and 145 are connected.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

This is my first time as Helheim in Dom 3, and I won't be using W9F9 bless, for whatever that is worth... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

This is my first time playing Vanheim MP. I am not planning to be using an imprisoned or a dormant pretender. It is probable that I will go to level 9 in one path of magic so I can get one good bless stat boost on my sacred troops.

I think disallowing imprisoned pretenders would be a simple solution to uber-bless strategies. Having a dormant pretender would still be allowed.

SR

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

On a small map, a Dormant pretender could be an okay defense. As the Ulm player, I am well aware of my awfully violent neighbors and not too happy about it, to be completely honest. My mages are fairly awful, so it's not like I'm going to be laying down area-effect fire spells enmasse to wipe away the hordes, so W9 anythings are already pretty painful. I'm all for fairness and not unfairly gimping one side or the other, but since race selection is restricted on this map, I'm a little worried about people exploiting their neighbors' weaknesses if we let blesses get too potent. I certainly don't think Ulm is weak, but this isn't MA or LA Ulm we're talking about, and a smithing price reduction is hardly the game-winning advantage when you're facing a rush-heavy force like the Heims.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Perhaps we could just stick with No Imprisoned Pretenders? As others pointed out, the Heims and people with SC pretenders can be deadly even without a bless, and there's not much we can do to prevent that short of a truce for the first X turns - which I'm still open to, but might be excessive regulation - or dogpiling would-be rushers.

Still, further thoughts are welcome.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

The 10 turn forced truce is fine by me.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Okay, it seems like everything that needed discussion is clear now(?), I'll try to get the server up this weekend.

I will use the Dawn map from the game, 3.06 version and the Worthy Heroes mod that's the most current one then.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Clear as mud! Where do we stand on blessings, truce, etc.?

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Oh well, if you need more time for discussion that's cool, then I have more time to setup the server... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I would agree to any of the proposals presented. Consider me a yes vote.

My preference is for as little nerfing as possible.

I think no Imprisoned pretenders is a good one. No war for 10 turns sounds a bit contrived, a little stilted for a wargame, but I would agree to play with it.

SR

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

No imprisoned pretenders would be acceptable to me, too. I would prefer not to have a 10 turn truce.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

One does not need imprisoned pretenders for dual blessing, BTW, but whatever you agree on is fine to me. I can have the server up as soon as you're ready to go, the problems I had are sorted out so far.

I'd suggest that everybody sends me his designed pretender by mail later on so that I can start off the game by myself and I know how to contact a player in case he becomes inactive in the game.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Sure, but it will force a trade-off on scales.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

My only concern is getting stomped early on when there's absolutely nothing I can do to stop it. If someone is going to do that then there's really no reason to play--if the other players can't be bothered to allow their neighbors a fair shot at playing the game as well, we should know about it now.

So I'm a little concerned when the 10 turn truce is considered 'nerfing' by some people. It makes it sound like several people are planning on a) going high bless and b) rushing their neighbors straight off.

So I'm pretty unhappy with that. It's something I'd try to solve in-game if it comes up, but I'm not real interested in starting up a game just to be taken out turn 3, and have nothing I can do to stop it.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I personally favour the ten-turn truce to counteract the effects of the fixed starting location. ReverendZombie, I'd point out that the truce could help you too -- even Helheim isn't invincible, as Ich found out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Should we also set research to easy? Pashadawg did this with his own Dawn game, so I know it can be done - and it would not only offer another solution to rushing, it would also let us access spells that normally we wouldn't have the time to get on a map this size.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

Setting indies to a 8 or 9 can help address your concerns without resorting to the 10-turn truce.

A full complement of players on a smallish map seems to naturally lend itself to early conflict.

Rather than layer on house rules, we might try a map more suited to the kind of game you are looking for.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

I'm willing to take my lumps. As I said, this is my first time with Helheim, and I don't expect to do that well. I'm not that great of a player, anyway.

Re: New Dawn - need players and server
 

It looks like we have one person strongly in favour of a truce, one person strongly against, and a bunch of people who can live with it. Darrel, you were the one who originally proposed it - where do you stand?

This only works for certain nations; Caelum can fly right over the indies, nations with stealthy units can sneak past, etc.

Even beelining for a neighbour would take 4 or 5 turns anyway, and would leave you vulnerable. I would rather not make either option a "my way or the highway" issue, so how about we go with the majority rule, and if we're still tied, have no truce?