forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hammer?
 

I'm trying to figure out if its worth it for me to buy my pretenders earth skill up high enough to make the forge. Do you know if it stacks with the dwarven hammer or is the forge basically just like a dwarven hammer for anyone who forges?

Thanks

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

It stacks

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

You can get the smith bonus to 100% and then everything only takes 1 gem instead of xx gems to forge for gems from a specific magic path.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hammer?
 

Can you do that without modding?

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

A four-armed forger with Hammer of the Forge Lord and Hammer of the Cyclops might work.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

yeah, actually a 4-armer with (in order) dwarven hammer, hammer of forge lord, dwarven hammer would have the bonus from all 3 (i think the 'like items stacking if theres another item inbetween' is a bug though)

if you can find a province with a banefire forge and a steel oven you'd get the bonuses from them as well.

also forge of the ancients does more than just make everything cheaper, it also increases each forgers effective magic levels by 1 for forging purposes. (so if you have an earth of 4, you can forge things that take earth 5 - like the aegis) -- in dom2 this added a level 1 path for every path your mage didn't have... but in dom3 it only effects paths they have.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

Okay, this is not correct. It doesn't stack, it multiplies, and it rounds down at each step with a minimum of 1.

IIRC - The bonus from forge of the ancients is applied first, then the construction bonus of any sites, and then the forge bonus of the unit. I should doublecheck this.

So, for example, if you have forge+hammer (as I often do) the cost for a 25 gem item is 9 gems.

That's (25 * 0.5 = 12) * 0.75 = 9.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

ok, I ran a test where i had a nataraja with the hammer of the forge lord, and a dwarven hammer, forge of the ancients, and a steel oven.

the gate stone costs 6 earth and 6 astral to forge given these conditions (normally 65 and 65)

(dwarven hammers don't stack with something in between... so i was wrong there)

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

I am pretty sure that I equipped a master smith with a hammer of the forge lord and had forge of the ancients up in a test game (25+50+25 = 100 forge bonus) and I had only to pay 1 gem per color when forging. It wouldn't take much to test if my memory serves me correct here with a Wish mod.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

I'm sure it doesn't stack in the way that 25+50+25=100. Try out to forge a high casting cost item like wizard ring and it will cost more than 1 gem.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

Okay, I didn't manage to get over a bonus of 75 now, too. Don't know how I acquired 100 before.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

Forge of the ancients is forge bonus 50% IIRC. So is the Hammer of the forge lord. It's dwarven hammers that are 25%.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

so by those standards what I had was 50 + 20 + 25 + 50...

I tested with the gatestone.... normally 65e/65s

after Ancients the gatestone would be 32/32
after the steel oven would make that 25/25
dwarven hammer reduces that by a quarter which is 18/18
forge lord should make that 9/9

but it was 6/6 -- so what happened i think was dwarven + forgerlord were counted as one calculation as 75% so 25/25 became 6/6 after the combined forge bonus.

it is praetorus and calmon who are right.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

I seem to remember forge of the ancients (50%) + hammer of the forge lord (50%) dropping Robe of Invulneraility to 10 gems. That'd be 40*0.5*0.5 which would also agree with this.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

That sounds right.
It looks like the personal bonuses stack. Items and any bonus the unit might have. Mage Smiths with dwarven hammers are definitely 50%.
Then global and site bonuses are applied individually to the remaining cost.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

Mmm hmm. To get 100+ forge bonus, you either need an intrinsic +50 forge bonus (which doesn't exist on any unit I'm aware of, unmodded). If you have three arms (fairly unusual...) and a +25 forge bonus (not a combo that I'm aware of), you could do it with either 2hd artifact forge hammer and a dwarven hammer. Four arms, use both 2hd hammers, or 1 2hd + 1 dwarf + intrinsic +25 or better.

Of course, the Hammer of the Cyclops is only available if you either wish for it or if somebody finds and kills the indy Cyclops, and then manages to grab the hammer. It's a slightly superior (forge bonus is the same, but IIRC combat stats are slightly better) version of the Hammer of the Forge Lord.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

there must be some cap... in my test I just wished for the hammer of the cyclops, paired with forge lord the nataraja has a 100 forge bonus.

wizard rings still cost 6 astral.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

there seems to be a hard cap of 10% (rounded down) of the item must be payed for (the robe of invulnerability cost 4 earth to forge)

of course that means soul contracts for 6 blood 1 fire.

can't argue with that.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

thanks for the detailed input guys i appreciate it!

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

Nah. Soul contract is the only item which isn't affected by forge bonuses.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

interesting!

after testing: lifelong protection works the same way...

maynbe the gift of the kurgi should as well... since these are sacrificed virgis and not raw materials. (but it doesn't, it gets the bonus)

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

An alternative explanation: The soul contract and lifelong protection require a sacrifice, the other things can really be forged.

Re: forge of the ancients stack with dwarven hamme
 

but the sacrifice is right there in the gift of kurgi description. "the gift is given to the first man who brings the kurgi two score bloodslaves"


not in text:
"or, 4 bloodslaves, under the right conditions..."

that just seems like you are disrespecting the kurgi.