Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Sorry if some of you guys dont like the threads name, but im really wondering who is actually playing SEV.
I have it installed since it was released, but havent touched it in months.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I'd be playing more if UF would submit his turns! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I'm sort of in a 'on-hold' state regarding SE V, waiting for the next patch. That's something I find myself doing with almost every new patch, unfortunately.

It's not only about the issues and bugs left, it's also that I've grown rather tired with the original tech tree, not to mention the predictable AI. I expect it'll get better in a few more months, though.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I haven't played since the 1.2 patch first came out. I'm still patching my game and hoping for some AI improvements, but the last time I played I got the feeling that SEV is an inferior version of SEIV with some bad design decisions. However I am patient enough to wait and see if all the problems (bugs and design) get fixed.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I still play SEV, but my games tend to not last very long because after several hours of playing, I get tired of all the annoying things about the game: the crashes during processing, bugs, problems with the user interface, etc. It stops being fun. So I stop and don't play for a week or two. Then I forget about the frustrations and I start a new game, and repeat. Sometimes I go back to playing SEIV. With each patch, SEV gets better but it's still got problems that make it not-so-fun to play.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

For some reason, the graphics gives me a headache. Guess I'm more of a straight strategy player. I will give it a shot on PBW when I have more time.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Thanks for the votes and comment at this point. I feel just liek Raapys does. Im waiting for a new patch, and thats what i ve been doing since the first patch.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I wish there was an option between "once in a while" and "all day."

Does "modding" count as "playing?" heh

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Voted "haven't played for weeks", but it's really "months". But that's more due to major life changes than to the state of the game. I haven't had a period of time where I could just sit down for 2 or 3 hours and just explore the game, there have always been other things that took priority. I wouldn't want to join in on a PBW/PbEM game until I took the time with the game individually, especially since I haven't really played anything except the demo. I have the full game, and I installed and played for an hour or so when the first patch came out, but then I had to pack up everything and move. So, haven't come back to it since.

I actually think I might take a shot at PBWv2 in some of my weekend spare time someday soon. The major hurdle I had been facing is not knowing what needed to go into the design of an application like PBW, but I've been doing nothing but JSPs and servlets at work for the past two months, so I have a much better idea of how to go about things now. I'll post a new thread if I ever actually get that started. You will forgive me if I sneak in a few SEIV and SEV games before I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

The UI makes it impossible to play. Sorry guys, but after many months of continuous play I have come to the conclusion that while the game is good, the UI makes it too much like a job and thereby to frustrating for me to play.

I should not get depressed playing a game, and regrettably SE V depresses me horribly. The damn UI is just so user unfriendly.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Heh, actually i thought about replacing weeks with months because i believe whoever didnt play in weeks didnt play in months either. But i decided doing so would be too rough.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I find the UI perfectly friendly and play in PBW games, good stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Same thing as a lot of the above guys....I play each time the new patch comes out and so far each time, I give up in frustration.

Waiting on the next patch....

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I just can't play the game because of the horrid interface and that's saying something because I love dwarf fortress(terrible UI).

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

The game is really a good game, its the UI that makes it not playable for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif That doesn't mean that other won't like and or enjoy the game. I love the game, just hate the UI.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

IT surprises me how many people here aren't playing it. Apart from some trouble before the first patch I haven't had any trouble. I think I just don't let little things bother me, although I have never had any trouble with the UI.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Hell, I'm playing it right now. I'm having great fun with the Balance Mod, and pitting Star Trek TMP ships against the Cylons is just sweetness (even if those pesky Cylon troops happen to be invisible).

Honestly, the UI doesn't bother me as much as it used to. It's like Guinness, I think. Not that pleasant at first, but really rather enjoyable once you get used to it.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I just don't like this game. For me it's the MOO3 story all over. The interface needs an overhaul. Galciv2:DA has been taking most of my time.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

You can't possibly compare SE5 and MOO3. SE5 has not been abandoned by the developer, and is actively being improved. SE5 did not have the fundamental game design drastically cut and altered in the final stages of development. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

My only question is how many people posting here have 'never' played SE:IV. All the 'UI Issues' seem to stem from comparison to SE4. Like listening to people who are extremely resistant to change. I'm not saying you are wrong to do so. I'm saying that opinions based on comparison are not 'fresh views'.

Personally I find nothing wrong with the UI in terms of functionality. (my only rub is I do not like the SE3 % type of research allocation, I much prefer the way SE4 did it with queues.)

Stats: Since the release of SE5 Aaron has made 656 fixes, changes, and additions. That my friends is allot of hard work. Rest assured Aaron will continue to make changes, additions and fixes for a good long time. He wants this to be the best it can be. (as do we all) but he is just one man. IMHO He puts other developers to shame when it comes to listening to their fans and catering to their wishes.

You can nit pick till the cows come home, or you can let the new design grow on you. SE5 is sooooo much more 'Modable' than SE4. You can tell that Aaron had 'Modding Features' as one of his top priorities. This is a Modder's game come true. It could well have been called "Space Empires Construction Set" (including the basic game engine to build upon).

Anyways, I think you people are judging by comparison and each and every one of you see what you believe is a 'better way to do it' and in seeing this become obsessed fail to see and adapt to the games current state.

Nuf said.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Question is, why was the game released in the first way ?

Should those 656 fixes, changes and addition not be done BEFORE release ?

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Did you see the anticipation around here leading up to release? It had to be released sometime, and it was released in a form that was at least playable for the most part. At some point you have to decide that you need to ship and can do patches along the way. If we had to wait for every single bug to be tracked down and fixed, then this community would not be what it is, and I might or might not be sitting around with the SEIII community waiting for the 1.0 release of SEIV.

And DEG, I think most of the complaints about the UI are how tedious it made doing simple things. When I had played months ago (around first patch release), SEV had a nasty habit of making me click through multiple dialogs to get anything done. I don't even remember anymore what the actions were that I was trying to do, but in general for UIs, it is best to be able to accomplish common tasks with one click or one keystroke, and reserve the multi-level dialogs for actions that are taken rarely in the game.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Sure. However, if even a LOT of beta-testers were VERY worried about a release at that time, i think thast should weight more.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I never played SEIV much, so maybe thats why I don't have a problem with the SEV interface.

As for bugs in game releases, that seems to be the way the world is moving, not something malfador invented. I am sure they would have rather had more time, but its a business. That is both good and bad. back before the internet was common, you'd buy a game and that was pretty much it. Of course, that meant the game had to be solid, but that wasn't always the case. Now at least there is a possibility of fixes and getting more content.

SEV is as close as I've gotten to the old PBEM 4x strategy games that just had rules, no programs. You can do so much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

the main beef I have about SEV UI is the loss of the single click to add items to queues.

that, and some places where it needs cleaning up a bit, like the size of the combat log in the news.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

David,

Its not change that I am resistant too. Its lack of function, less information, more clicks, bad organization, and a sincere lack of inspiration that make me dislike the UI. I like the visual look of the UI, but in most cases it lacks the depth and attention to information detail that SE IV's DOS like UI had. I miss seeing what I need to see at a glance. The new FILTER system is a PITA and often requires many clicks to find the info you need. In SE IV it was a simple matter to get to the info you wanted, in SE V it is not.

The pointless features of the UI that do absolutely nothing to help the game like clicking on the main image and it brings up a larger view of it but with NO information. WTH is the point to that? Clicking on the main image should bring up information about that object, not just a larger view of it.

Click fest is not something my index finger enjoys either.

Sure I am spoiled because SEIV was a well thought out design that provided much needed simple information at a glance whereas SE V's UI doesn't.

All this aside, I can never recall a time where I was frustrated by SE IV's UI and gave up playing the game because of it. While I love the game, the UI is simply to aggravating for me to deal with over long periods. It ruins the gaming experience for me and frustrates the hell out of me. I am sorry but that is the God's honest truth.

Aaron has made a wonderfully deliteful game in SE V. No one can deny that say for the few who are hooked up on moo3 comparisons. I am in no way knocking the game, it is a great 4x game and one that I highly recommend for purchase, but for me the ONLY issue that keeps me from playing it are the UI issues that annoy me. I have faith though that over time many of them will be ironed out and that keeps my hope running high. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

se5a said:
the main beef I have about SEV UI is the loss of the single click to add items to queues.

You can generally double click, which is pretty much the same action.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Except when trying to add multiple items.

Se4:
1,2,3 of that. 1,2 of those.

...With only small movements of the mouse down the list
...a list in which you can see 19-20 items without scrolling, rather than just 5 or 6


There is really no doubt that SE4's UI is vastly superior.
The debate is really whether SE5's UI is good enough on its own. I'd say a non-emphatic yes.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Even then, double click takes roughly as much time as single click. The list could certainly stand to show more items, but I don't see any fundamental issues with double vs. single click.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Oh, come on. The UI has many many issues. Even though people got hung up on one of the things I listed, here's a sizable list (yes, a few have been reported fixed in the as yet unlreleased latest versions), but there are a lot more UI problems than just a double click issue.

Link
Edit: Fixed the crazy-long link

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Didn't say or imply there weren't.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

There is no problem with a doubleclick if you have to do it only occasionally.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I see the spread is pretty even and stable. Despite its flaws SE V is still the best 4x game to come out in the last five years. (Say for SE IV Gold)

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

SEIV was addictive. The more I played it, the more I wanted to continue playing. SEV is the opposite. The more I play it, the more frustrating it becomes and I increasingly want to do something else other than play SEV. And I don't think it's just because I'm used to SEIV and I'm resistant to change. I had no problem switching from SEIII to SEIV many years ago even though I was used to SEIII and SEIV was different. I really want to like SEV. I've started many games of SEV and spent dozens of hours playing it, to get used to the interface.

The main problem I have with SEV is the crashes. In order to not have the game get stuck while processing turns, I have to keep saving the game, quitting SEV and restarting every 5 turns or so. Otherwise the turns go slower and slower until it eventually crashes. If the memory leak problem gets fixed, that will solve about 50% of the frustration for me.

The other frustration I have with SEIV is the user interface. It's not so much the number of mouse clicks or the way the menus are organized that is really the biggest problem. I could live with the awkward user interface if all the functionality I wanted was available somewhere, even it took a lot of clicking. One of the annoying things is that some of the screens get increasingly cluttered as the game progresses. For example, the obsolete ship designs never seem to disappear from the ship list in the combat simulator, so after a while you've got hundreds of old ship designs in the list that you don't want and can't get rid of. You can't delete old construction queue fill lists so they pile up as well. Plus I agree with a lot things from Slick's list, especially the ones related to the ship design screen.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Fyron: My bad. I guess it looks like I was responding to your comment but I was just making a general statement.

SJ: thanks for the edit. And I also agree with the double click position. I think they are just another mostly unnecessary time consumer in the UI. *checks wrists for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome*

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I couldn't have put it better.

My understanding is that this is a feature and intended to be this way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif x 10 to the 10th power.

Very Nice list Slick.

This has been fixed in a recent patch.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Never being able to simulate with obsolete designs would be terrible. Rarely do you have an empire consisting of only the utmost latest designs, along with all of your enemies' empires. The screen could still use a toggle, of course, but it should never just filter out all obsolete designs automatically.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I was playing with the balance mod and having fun with the shipsets, but even in a small universe with just 5-7 empires the turn processing was taking way too long. Probably going to try it again once this new patch is released since it's supposed to speed up combat and allow the turn to process even with the window minimized (YEA!!!) I would have prefered the SEIV interface to the new one, because it just seemed more friendly. When I click on a facility I should be given the option of upgrading or scraping there, not having to exit out of planet view, click on the planet, go to the CARGO menu (I never knew buildings were CARGO) and then scrap it. Not saying the new one is all bad. It's not a game breaker for me.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Once in a while I'll play for a while, wishing the interface wasn't a clickfest. Wishing I didn't have to play detective to figure out why a fleet with overwhelming superiority turned and ran this time. Wishing something as SIMPLE as a 'Systems to Avoid' filter was available on the Planets List menu so the send colonizer button could be used to simplify at least one aspect of this game. Wishing it didn't take several seconds to pull up a menu in large games, and minutes to process a turn. Wishing the person who wrote the game actually played it, to have a better feel for the UI and game play in general.

Mostly, that addictive pull to play 'just one more turn' that was ever present in SEIV just does not exist in SEV. I usually just quit in frustration because once again a perfectly healthy and well supplied and ordinanced fleet turns tail and runs instead of flattening a nearly defenseless planet. Or I get tired of waiting on menus to pop up, or turns to process, or a stupid AI decision makes me realize I'm playing against one of the most retarded AI's ever produced for a game.

And I wait, and wonder IF the game will get much better, and how many more months that will take. If it wasn't for a handful of helpful people on this forum, and the modders, I would've uninstalled the game right after purchase.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

I have been trying to think of how to best describe what I feel when I play SE V. Your comment nailed it. A sincere lack of JOMT Syndrome. In other words, the game doesn't produce a sufficient high. A failing that does not make this game an addictive product.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Maybe its a product of age. I haven't had that syndrome since MOO2. I don't really attribute the lack of it to the games though.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

The game itself is a very good game. The UI though makes it a very frustrating game to play. However in time much of the UI issues will either be worked out or learned to be accepted as characters of the game and accepted.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Yeah, I agree there Aegisx, I remember when I was a teenager me and my friend would pull all nighters playing games like Civ 2, Flashback, Shadowrun, General chaos, P.T.O., Syndicate wars, Starflight, games like that, and just never get bored. Even if we beat a game we'd get together the next weekend and start over. Even MOO2, we'd have 2 person teams, 1 researcher and 1 warrior each team. It just never got old. I think the last game that was that addicting was Alpha Centauri. SEIV was kinda like that. I was addicted to it, but only due to the mods, not to the stock, which really doesn't count since none of the others were modded.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Civ 2 not modded? Oh my... moddability was one of its strong points.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

The MoO mod for Civ2 was classic. In some ways even more fun that the original MoO.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Ehhh civ for SNES, not pc

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Could you play SE V without the use of a key board? I ask this because with the improvements that we are now seeing in consoles such as the X-Box 360, PS3, and Wii, a game such as SE V, dumbed down a bit, might just be feasible... ?

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

The console developers control what can be put on their consoles. And the most complicated TBS I've seen on one is Advanced Wars. Not a good sign. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Ironically, consoles are turning more and more into regular computers, soon the only difference will be that they use the TV as opposed to a computer screen.

I've yet to have a good experience with a PC-game-gone-console, though. In all cases I can remember it has degraded the PC experience immensly. Especially concerning UI/Controls, since the developers are usually too lazy to develop seperate systems for both platforms.

Re: Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?
 

Case in point: Oblivion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif