SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Heya folks, I am making my first appearance here in the SE 4/5 area. I am new to the space empires games, but ive played Space Empires: starfury, so i know a bit about stuff.

I have recently downloaded the demo, and played out 100 turns on quick start - It was fun, but i could use some help... my main problem is that my opponents (namely the amonkri) decided to do all this spy BS... They keep stealing plans and all that. (i ended up declaring war on them and putting a carrier fleet in one of thier systems)

Anyhow, the main point - Is SEV worth buying? It seems like a nice game, and its a nice change from the Civilization games I used to play.

Also... should I be colonizing every world i can? just spamming colonies everywhere, or build up a few of my colonies, the ones that are habitable, and large?

Thanks, -Lance

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I reccommend picking up the package deal where you get SE4 with it. You can't go wrong with 7 years of mods and improvements.

SE5 alone depends at the moment. It is certainly improving continuously, so if you have patience, why not.

As far as colonization, do both. The most militarily useful strategy is generally to rush forward, claiming strategically important chokepoint systems and building resupply depots where nessesary, then backfill everything else as soon as you have a chance.
More colonies, more resources, more shipyards, more everything.
Some mods do allow for more than one level of development on a planet, but generally, you can still develop and expand at the same time without any problems.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Lol that wouold require me to actually explore... as it is, with the demo all I do is go out 3-4 systems, then colonise all I can. then I usally end up researching fighter tech and building a carrier... As it is, in the demo i cant seem to find anything as deadly as a carrier and 40+ fighters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif They seem to eat though a fleet in seconds, i suppose this may be just that there are no larger ships yet.

Also, I note that when I research newer ships, my best, say frigate, can beat any destroyer I put together. Is this intentional?

Err... is SEIV that much differnt than SEV?

lol enough talk.. thanks SJ.
I suppose this forum is more active than starfury :>

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Buy it yes. Very good game despite some minor UI issues.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Right, where have you put the real Atrocities? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

haha from the demo, I see no UI issues... may just be me though. Ive not played the demo long enough to actually do anything though. The farthest Ive gotten is 100 turns in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Btw, will the mods work with the demo?

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

If you like the demo, you'll like the game. No questions there.

I cant get past the glacial turn processing times and the generally poor pacing of the early game. But if you arent having problems with that or with the UI, then I would definately recommend you to pick it up.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Lancefighter said:
"Btw, will the mods work with the demo?"

Probably not.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Heh i suppose the best way to test if the mods work is to start them...

Glacial turn processing times? In my game, on my core-duo dell inspiron, it ran perfectly - perhaps 10 sec between turns(all the way to 100). My desktop runs a bit slower, but still no more than a minute between turns - all the way up to turn 40 or so (not gotten farther on desktop)

Ill have to get this game though... gonna check out SEIV also, i hear its not too bad either.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

10 seconds between turns is really fast! Even 1 minute between turns is fast. Could it be because of dual core? I thought SEV doesn't take advantage of dual core yet?

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Definately not. I just tried it and I'm still cleaning up after the kittens.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Put it this way, It's like being sold a nice looking car which
- you can only drive for 5 minutes, then have stop and wait 5 minutes for it to cool down
- the reverse gear goes forwards rather than backwards
- if you turn too sharp the steering wheel comes off
- will spontaneously break down at least twice every hour
Some people might call these minor issues and say it's working, so I guess it comes down to how much you're willing to put up with and your initial expectations.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Funny, i can play for a lot longer then 5 minutes.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

the only crash I get now is if I start up 2 directx apps. SeV ends up dying, but not due to playing.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I've got a AMD 3000+
1.81 GHz
1 Gig of Ram
2 SLI GeFroce 6600 GT (Ok, no use in processing time)
and my turn processing take 10 seconds
So unless it's a "Battlefield 2" like bug where two identical computers do not have the same bugs on the same game, SEV is going to run fine if your computer does more than + - / *
(unless it's old...)

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Over-abused car analogies are always so terrible... Software and cars have just about no reasonable basis of comparison.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

That's a fairly large hyperbole and grows even more so by the day.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I can play the game for hours without a crash. My processing turns do increase over time but are never longer than have a minute or so.

The game is the best 4x game to come down the pipe since 2001 and despite its many flaws is still one of the best 4x games ever published. Unlike with most games, such as Moo3, GalCiv, Reach for the Stars, and GalCiv2 who all had huge production teams and large budges, SE V was developed and programed by ONE MAN, with limited help from talented people and virtually no budget except revenues from the sales of SE IV to sustain him.

So ya, it might be a crappy car, but at least the car company is willing to fix it, improve it, and support it long after you have bought it. Its a purchase I would make again and again.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

This forum is the best reason to buy the game, and be patient for the improvements that will come. I'd name names but I'd forget someone. This forum and the modders helped make SEIV the great game it was, and they're working hard at doing the same for SEV.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

At the moment, yeah, I suppose so. Same ideas, but significantly different implementation. SE4 has a lot to offer, particularily in the mods, shipsets, UI, (modded) balance and (modded) AI challenge.

Frankly, Aaron isn't that great a modder; he dosn't have the time for it. He has spent his life making the underlying engine, while the we in the community have spent our lives modding, playtesting, refining strategies... there's bound to be a big difference there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

SE4 has a very big lead... as long as you aren't afraid to spend a while downloading seven years of great community work, SE4 is well worth it.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

No, really, what have you done to Atrocities?

Are you out there, AT? Can you hear us?

EDIT: I should add that it is good game, shaping up to be a great game!

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

While I agree with the sentiment, that doesnt materially affect anything. I dont recall seeing any discount or disclaimer on this game because its made by one guy as opposed to one made my 200. It still cost the same as any other PC game release. If they wanted to offer it for $19.99 with the caveat as 'work in progress', then that argument could be made. But if its offered as a retail release at full price, its going to be judged against those other titles on its own merit, not on how many people developed it (fairly or unfairly).

That said, this 'one man show' has put more post-release support into his game than most of the other 'big guys'. And it was on that basis that I bought the game in the first place. I was an avid fan of SE4 and I expect to hopefully feel the same about SE5 some day. But that day is not today. Here's hoping the NEXT patch gives the game that I think we all hoped we would get when SE5 was announced.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

$40 at release is not discounted, in an era where most games come out at $50-60? Uh huh...

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I havent paid more than $40 for a PC game in forever...certainly not for Paradox/Matrix/Shrapnel/Strategy First title.

You can quibble about the actual final price, but the sentiment is the same.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

You not being willing to pay more than $40 for games does not in any way change the fact that new retail games generally start at $50-60 dollars in this day and age, and SE5 was sold at a (discounted) lower price point from release day. I'm not sure how that constitutes "quibbling" when it illustrates that SE5 was in fact "discounted" when it was released.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Its got nothing to do with not be willing to pay more than $40. I go into the store on onto the website...I pay the amount listed. And for most reasonably recent games I've bought, I've paid right around $40.

$40 is what I consider the 'going rate' for a new non-mainstream PC game. Yes, some premier games cost $50 for the first few weeks, but most other games I pick up are simply priced at 39.99 or so. Perhaps things are more expensive on the West Coast, but that is the going rate around here.

Gal Civ, Gal Civ2, RftS all cost me the same as SE5. MOO3? well, that is a special case. People literally couldnt GIVE that one away after the first week or so...but that was what? 4 years ago? Hard to compare at this point, I suppose. In any case, MOO3 wasnt worth it even for free...

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I totally agree Uncle_Joe.

I have never been dissatisfied buying work-in-progress software before and this would be no different, except that it's advertised and sold as a fully working product, which clearly it isn't. It makes no difference how many people made it, how much support it has (which I admire) or what price it is, this is still a lie, which as far as I can see does nothing but cause disappointed customers (like myself) and give it a bad name. Why not just be up front and do without these things? Or is there something I'm missing here?

No basis to compare cars and software? - We know what they are meant to do, can easily measure whether or not they do it, both are fun to use and frustrating when they break down. Why else do you need?
I'm not too sure what this growing hyperbole is but it doesn't sound very nice.

From what I've seen, whenever anything interesting is happening, like a couple of battles, turns generally take upwards of 10 minutes to process, depending on how interesting what's happening is. If there's nothing but moving ships, colonising planets and processing construction queues it doesn't take long, but this soon becomes pretty boring. Unfortunately the computer AI is not capable of much else - something I wouldn't mind working on myself, but if the scripting works anything like the game does, I'll pass for now and save myself the frustration.
Un-modded SE is extremely unbalanced in favor of fighters which simplifies walking over the computer oponents somewhat, even when they are teamed against you. The balance mod fixes a lot of this without changing the game much.


Anyway, this is what happened my last game (v1.25, Bal Mod 1.03) - so prospective buyers can know what to expect:

Small map, 11 players, good PC 1-2 years old.
After 10 turns it took 10 minutes (I looked at the clock) to process each turn, which I spent reading a book rather than watching the green and red progress bars snake across the screen. Minimising it stops the turn processing.

I was trying to use satellites to defend warp points, but when I told a ship to launch units at a warp point it would launch them sometime on the way to the warp point instead. I worked out the trick was to tell the ship to move to the warp point, then move 1 sector and launch the units there, which would actually result in them being launched at the warp point.
When the 2nd load of satellites were launched the supplies and ordinance of the group was mysteriously reduced by half, and then down to 1/3 when the 3rd load was launched. I wasn't attacked, but last time I played if a group of units had 1/3 supplies, only 1/3 of them would fire resulting in them all being destroyed by relatively small forces.

When I tried to transfer some supplies from some fighters to my ship it didn't work.

I couldn't pause the movement log playback to see the enemy ships go past.

I had to make sure all units were built where I would load them as I found it the game before it was impossible to move them (cargo) between planets with transports since the 'drop cargo' didn't work.

I wasn't surprised when there was a battle where no-one took any damage despite being shot the entire time. At least this time it was both sides which were seemingly immune to damage, not just one, but it still let the enemy into a system I had guarded.

After launching some fighters from a planet to deal with an unwelcome visitor I couldn't recover them from space leaving them stuck in the wrong system.

When planets were attacked, combat would begin with the attacking ships right next to the planet rather within drop troop range rather than near the edge of the combat map.

To use simultaneous movement, I each turn I had to do this:
- Load the game
- Login as 'player1'
- Play then end the turn bringing up the start screen
- Load the game
- Login as 'host' with the password 'master'
- End turn which would bring up the start screen again.
This time I used 'different machines' mode because last time when I used 'hotseat' mode I had to restart SE every 2nd turn due to turn processing errors.

I also managed to do this continuously for a couple of hours before I was forced to restart due to a game load error, so I must be getting better an not doing things which make it crash.

This doesn't include the minor problems.

At turn 13 I stopped, coming to the conclusion that it would be best to wait until more works before trying to enjoy playing a game.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I don't recall ever seeing "fully working product" as part of the advertisements/PR for SE5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Dan_ said:
"No basis to compare cars and software? ... Why else do you need?"

In order to make a strong, useful analogy, the objects you are comparing need to have a fair level of similarity. The more similar they are, the stronger the analogy. The more dissimilar they are, the weaker the analogy. Apples to oranges, yes. Both are fruit, both are round, they have similar shapes. Apples to jet planes? Pretty weak. Analogy is an oft-abused tool on the Internet...

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Uncle_Joe and Dan, why would there need to be a disclaimer stating that the game was made buy one guy opposed to 200?

I was simply stating fact, not making policy. If you dislike the game because you expected more, well that is your right. But if you hate the game because it reminds you of MOO3 and you compare it to such, then like with all things, you should be fully informed about the objects you are comparing.

Most games are shipped caveat emptor with little to no additional support past one or two patches. And these game developers often have large programing staffs with significant budges and they give you squat in return for you purchase. At least Malfador and SFI have on going support for SE V. The simple fact that there have been nearly 1,000 issues addressed since the games release, with more coming, should be reason enough to justify its purchase. Most game developers, the ones with staff and money never reach the level that Malfador has historically set for its game support. If there were gold medal given to game developers for superior support of their games, Malfador would have multiple gold medals.

I also agree with Fyrons comments in the above post 100%.

Given the choice between all of the 4x type games that have been released since June 2001, SE V is the best, and even with its irritating UI flaws, I would still have bought it, will continue to recommend it, and will always consider it one of the best 4x games of all time.

For those reasons I restate that despite its flaws, I would buy it again, and again, and again. It is simple the best 4x game on the market today next to SE IV.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

This is the point exactly. The only "BIG NAME" games I have EVER seen recieve ANY kind of patch after 3 months of release have been Blizzard Games (Diablo 2, Starcraft, etc) and Counterstrike, which initally wasn't "Big Name."

Most computer games now days are massive scams to the consumer. The companies basicly copy some other game in some form because it's a safe investment and give you a crap product because it's guaranteed profit because you can't return it. Why? Because there is the potential that you could be burning it despite the fact that a large majority of people that buy it legitimately may not get it to work on their machines.

SE V recieves continuous support from it's designer and is ever changing. The whole SE series from my understanding is an awesome investment and I have myself now ordered SE IV Deluxe.

It's appearant you expected something different when you bought SEV, but I have to say I find it amusing that you are frustrated that a TURN BASED GAME takes T-I-M-E to play.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

Uncle_Joe, fortunately the upcoming patch will address a number of concerns including that silly 1-move early order bug and long processing times with combat execution much faster. For gameplay, I'd recommend you don't do small maps with more than 5 or 6 players. Having more than that means they start much closer together and won't have time to establish any of their own territory - this leads to short tempers between the AIs and more frequent combats - reducing their strength and making them less threatening versus the human player.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I didnt ever think their should be. But I'v seen that same 'excuse' before (it was only made by one guy, not 100s). My point was simply that whether it was made by 1 or 101, is immaterial. It is going to be judged against the others the same way (again, fairly or unfairly, that is just the way it is).

IF they had offered it at half the price as a 'public beta', THEN IMO it wouldnt warrant a lot of the criticism being leveled at it...But that is not the case.

Like I said before, I bought it solely on the strength of the reputation of that 'one man'. I would have liked to have had the game feeling more complete than it does, but I am confident that eventually, it will be the game I had hoped it would be.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I see your point. However it really isn't an excuse, it is a fact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif But I again, see your point.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

There have been more famous games released in worse condition that don't even get 10% of the support this game gets.

Re: SEV - to buy, or not to buy?
 

I would be interested in see the results of a survey of customer satisfaction if this was possible. I don't know how you could include the people who bought it off the shelf, and those who were not happy may not want to participate either. Results from people who regularly read the SE forums is not likely to be a very true representation of everyone who bought it either unfortunately.
- Total copies sold
- # survey replies (% of customers)
- How happy they are with it
- If not happy, why
- Suggestion for improvement
- And for interests sake, how they learned of it, and if they are were involved in the SE community when they bought it.

If anyone knows of any info like this, could the post a link please?

Edit:
Mainly this is here coz I needed to upload the attached pic somewhere I could reference from the play by web game forum. I just loaded the first turn of this pbw game to find that instead of building the ships and units I had planned, the construction queue was full of other races designs, and most of the my designs had vanished. Perhaps if someone knows how to avoid this they can let me know - thanks. (I think that's the first post which passed the spell checker http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )