Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

So I'm locked in a bitter struggle with LA Caelum as Arcoscephale, I was enjoying supremecy for a brief period of time, but seems he found a useful spell to stop my massed elephant formations from being brutally effective.

Fog warriors, I've lost two decisive battles, and can't really afford to lose another, best mage is probably 4F5E, thought maybe earthquake could be useful in taking out his numerous low hit point Seraphs in the rear, who are mowing down infantry with ease with lightning. His "fog" mammoths are a tad hard to get through though

Any helpful tactics? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Earthquake is good, but more than 1 is better, if I am playing a nation with high hp troops (preferably with regeneration), I love casting earthquake 3 times in the same round. It eliminates all enemy mages, archers and other chaff. Your high hp regenerating troops can then finish the shell shocked remenants with ease.

If you have 3 lvl 4E mages, give them 3 earth gems each and just script Earthquake, hold/castspell, h/cs, h/cs, h/cs, stay behind troops. This could hopefully eliminate any enemy mages before they even cast fog warriors.

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Fog Warriors is an amazing spell - I know because I use it all the time, and it makes my men almost unkillable! Or at worst it effectively gives them an extra life.

I can't see that Earthquake will help once they've cast it, it'll just kill you horribly. If you can take out their mages before they can cast it that'd be good, but as Arco it's not like you'll have more hit points than they do.

As a counter, I guess you want spells with large area of effect to turn off the mistform. Anything with large AOE really - it only needs to do 1 point of magical damage (hence earthquake won't work as it's mundane) to turn it off. I'm too tired to think of any specific ideas right now though... (bedtime in the UK)

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

There is also an item called "Eye of the Void" which can be very useful when given to the right commander.

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

I thought that only worked for glamour?

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Gandalf, will that help with Fog Warriors? That gives Mistform, which as far as I know isn't an illusion. The Eye would of course be useful against Phantasmal Army and the like, but Mistform?

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

The best counter is to hand over all your gems, gold, and provinces to your opponent using Fog Warriors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Magical damage will still cause full damage to your opponent, so I'd suggest as many area of effect attacks as you can manage. Rain of stones would be devastating (To both your mages and his).

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Rain is mundane and won't break fog warriors, but would be great if you can sacrifice a province and a mage or two to pop the enemy mages. Same with earthquake. Arco's mages can't do either of these though. Maybe 2-3 E2 mystics with some earth boots and a very small group of bodyguards to avoid death by flyer could manage to look innocuous enough to the AI to get off summon earth power/earthquake without them casting fog warriors on their turn. Scatter the 3 groups around the field so that arrows won't get all of them and hope that at least 1 or 2 of your guys makes it through to get the spell off.

I'd do this without your army there to kill his evocation squad off, since either of those spells will probably hurt your army and mages pretty badly as well. After that's done and you just have to deal with foggy mammoths and not lightning spam I'd throw a half-ton of sybils and mystics at him with a banner of the northern light and watch soul slay do its thing. All your S1 mages should script power of the spheres so they can cast it as well if you can spare the pearls, paralyze if not. Phoenix Power/Prison of fire for any F2/S1 mystics would be a good choice as well, and will save pearls, although the storm Caelum usually brings along will make your mages' fatigue shoot up pretty fast.

Flaming arrows is also a go-to spell against anything with trample or fog as well. Storms and arrow fend will probably shut down most of your projectiles after round 1, but it's still a pretty good use of a mage to cast it if you've got a lot of ranged units.

Hold your line with your own elephants to slow his guys up, especially if you go with prison. Give your casters as much time as possible to do their thing. Might throw a couple of curse of stones in as well to fatigue them and slow them down, plus it'll split their formation up since it won't hit all of them. Mass regen if you have it is a wonderful choice for your elephants, and your soul slayers don't care if he casts it back at you.

Hope that helps, it might be a bit too long-winded =)

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Ok, I have a problem here. In a PBEM I am being attacked by Man casting Fog Warriors in combination with Storm. This makes my mages unable to cast any long range evocation spells, as their range becomes limited. Also my Arbalests become useless (I am playing MA Ulm). He then charges me with knights and vine ogres (all "fogged" of course). What to do?

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

I'm pretty certain that an earthquake after fog warrior has been cast will cancel fog warriors on all that are damaged.

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Dedas - Hand over all your gems and money! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Folket - I haven't tested it, but from my understanding of the rules it won't. To get rid of Fog Warriors, you need to do at least either 1 magic damage or 25 mundane damage. Since earthquake is mundane it won't do either of those.

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

hmm, AFAIK fog warriors is only cancelled if the unit loses 25% of it's hit points in one go, I think they get a defensive save as well. Soo....all your mages that don't save have a good chance of being hit, they only have 9 hp, mammoths won't be too affected seeing the spell only deals 10 damage. Things like spire horn archers will be affected, not sure about the other flying troops as they have decent defence but ordinary HP's.

Thanks for some of the advice guys, not sure it will help in the current game...too late for that maybe, but it'll come in handy in the future http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Never! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Dedas: roll over and die, MA Ulm is horrible =)

Seriously though, buff your army with some alteration (marble warriors/legions of steel on Ulmish troops gives a somewhat ridiculous protection value...marble warriors is the same level as fog warriors, if you don't have it just throw more meat in the way instead. Wooden warriors might fly too if you've got some indie nature mages to spam it for decent coverage...regardless of how you do it, make a meat shield) and spam magma eruption with smiths after summon earth power. Your troops should do a great job soaking damage from the ogres and knights once they're buffed, and magma eruption will cut through mistform just fine. Make sure you have more magma than he has lightning and you should win pretty easily (unless your Ulmish troops decide to rout. They like doing that)

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Hmmm... yes, Magma would be the obvious counter; but (and this is a big but) the "hum hum" uses Mistform AND Storm in conjunction. This effectively renders any range depending spell unusable.

So yes, more steel on top of the mountain of steel my warriors already possess may be a valid tactic, just too bad that they can't hit squat and of course decides to take a nap after a while in combat.

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Storm's precision reduction shouldn't affect your Magma casters as much at short range, so if you keep them pretty far forward and wait for your enemy to close, you should hit some stuff. This would be especially effective if you are buffing your army, because then they may be able to hold the attack for several turns, giving your mages a nice close unmoving target to aim for.

Of course don't use Magma stuff with Wooden Warriors, because there's some element of fire involved, which your guys would be vulnerable to.

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Don't forget Weapons of Sharpness and/or Strength of Giants. Earth magic has some good army-buffing spells.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

Did you call me a "hum hum"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Counter to \"Fog Warriors\"?
 

I certainly did, sir! *Takes off glove*
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif