Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

Formation 45, items 135 & 136: J-35Oe Draken should not be available after January 2005.

Authority - Austrian Bundesheer official website:

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/cms/artikel.php?ID=2512

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

OK John, I can do that but it leaves Austrian without a figher-bomber in the OOB as of Feb 2005.

The Austrian airforce must be flying something capable of ground attack after January 2005.

Any suggestions from anyone would be appreciated

Don

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

The Saab-105Ö trainer appears to be still in service and able of CAS missions (with 30mm gun pods and 75mm rockets).

Also, some 12 F-5E Tigers are being leased from Switzerland, apparently as interim for the EF-2000.
This Swiss press release quotes July 2004 as the date of first delivery of the F-5s to Austria.

So to quote the official Austrian air defense webpage:To this day, the active components of the airspace defense are the Saab-105 and the F-5E leased from Switzerland.

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

It's known as a "capability holiday" - something that we here in the UK are used to!

In-Service Date for Austria's Eurofighter EF2000/Typhoon can be slotted into the game as June 2007, to augment the
F-5/Saab 105.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...hlight=typhoon

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

For everyone who might be interested (and hasn't been contacted by Siddhi) - we are working on an improved Austrian OOB and have so adressed the period 1979-2004 mostly; further contribution is, of course, welcome! (by PM... see the OOB thread...)

I am currently awaiting feedback on the work done so far, but I can tell you: for air units, I tried to get all the ISD/OSDs right for the various aircraft, including the Draken, the interim F-5E as well as the Typhoon - if anyone is following the political crusade against the Typhoon over here, however, it must be said that we better wait what happens until June before we put this as an in-service date... by the way: Air-wise,I also added the PC-6, the PC-7 both as observer and COIN fighter, the Hercules as well as the Blackhawk... however, I deleted certain non-existent air/ground weaponry configurations (you could buy Drakens but only with guns for strafing...);
besides, hehe, navy-wise(!), I even added our 2 (recently retired http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif ) river patol boats,,, plus much more!

I am looking for playtesters for this OOB - please PM me if interested!

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

Hi Don,

We (Austria) still retain the Saab-105OEs for theoretical use as fighter-bombers (even though it's an over-powered trainer only...)- the rockets for the 105s most likely don't exist any more, I heard they were all used up in training; however - I'll check on this one; but I added a Saab 105 in an existing configuration with 2 30mm Aden gun pods (nonsense to buy that unit in the game however) and a PC-7 as COIN fighter in a configuration that truly exists for training with 2 MG pods and 2 rocket pods; for the fighters (Draken, F-5E, Typhoon), I deleted all other weapons besides the guns - say this is nonsense, but then, don't tell me, tell that to our politicians... but it's a fact that these fighers have no A/G role and might be used for strafing only; also, don't come up with old stocks of bombs that might still exist - no, they don't, unless Siddhi or soemone else with good sources may be able to confirm the contrary.

Just like in the threads about Finland and Switzerland, again: Our so-called air force is really meant only for air policing (besides utility tasks), not even air serious defence as in those countries; this clearly does not include and air/ground capability; our OOB isn't finished yet, but be assured you'll receive detailed infos on what we changed and why...

Regards,

Shan

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

You can remove all the bombs and say they cannot be used becasue the Polititians said so and I will say that in the event of a major conflict there would be bombs and missles attached to hardpoints faster that you could say " I didn't think they could do that"

If you want to emasculate the Austrian airforce it's your OOB but the GAME is designed to recreate warfare not "air policing" and I can assure you when the patch is released the new Swiss OOB has an airforce with full functionality for theoretical combat.


Don

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

Interesting.

Does anyone have some firm information on the "Eurofighter/Typhoon" and it's projected in service dates with the various airforces that will use it. 2010 is when we have it in the game currently. I'd like hard confirmation that it WILL be on ACTIVE SERVICE with the Austrian AF in less than three months


Don

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

You seem to misunderstand this - there are no bombs in storage, let alone advanced A/G munitions. So what is in storage will be available for conflict, and we are trying to include this, even though no peacetime training has been done with it, alright, but all other things are just fiction.

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

ANYTHING we project beyond today is "just fiction"

Don

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

OK, about the Typhoon: The first aircraft is already being test-flown in Manching/Germany with the manufacturer and must be delivered in June, according to the contract - 4 Typhoons are to be delivered in 2007 in total, the remaining 12 in 2008-2009; check http://www.airpower.at/; So June should be fine, but with NO A/G weapons whatsoever of course; (these are Tranche 1 aircraft anyway); Political developments on this issue are changing every day, however, so there might be changes, but we'll see; for game purposes leave June '07;

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

An aircraft in this game "with NO A/G weapons whatsoever" is usless and will not be added regardless of contract delivery dates.

Also..... I deal with 92 OOB's and hundreds of thousands of bits of information in them. However, if I had every last bit of information at my figertips I would work for Janes and make more money with lot's less aggravation. Please explain what I'm supposed to make of .."these are Tranche 1 aircraft anyway"

??

Don

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

......AND when they will be fully operational.

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

There were no F-5E's either until they were flown in from Switzerland.....we're there ?? In the event Austria ever found itself in a real war the weaponry would be made available by nations with more foresight. ( and all the politicians that oppose them would suddenly be all in favour of them again, ).

The entire POINT of the game is to allow combat simulation. It's quite possible to fight Switzerland against Iraq in Iraq in the game. Is there even the remotest possibility that something like that would actually occur ? No unless you want to factor in the .0000999 chance that yes it could happen. So...... do we block players from selecting those two opponents ? No we don't . Imagine the howls if I blocked in code every "impossible" battle pairing !

The AVRO Arrow existed but for a very short time and never in combat. I included it for a number of reason and the main one was had something really nasty happened in 1959 you can bet the politicians that killed the project would have suddenly fallen in love with it so in the game it is armed and capable but only for a very short time.

If you want to build your OOB with essentially no ground attack capability for Austria in the early part of the 21st century it's your OOB mod and you can do with it what you please but what we decided long ago is that in cases like this the "Game reality" is that in a real combat situation the weapons would have been found to arm the aircraft.

Don

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

"An aircraft in this game "with NO A/G weapons whatsoever" is useless and will not be added regardless of contract delivery dates."

Don,

This is almost certainly the case with Austria's Typhoons. Air-to-Ground weaponry (other than internal gun) will not be fitted for a few years yet.

"Tranche 1" means the first production batch, btw.

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

The Tranche 1 aircraft are the first production version which don't (yet) include the systems needed to use AG ammo.
They are, like planned in the design, pure fighters.

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

"Air-to-Ground weaponry (other than internal gun) will not be fitted for a few years yet."

Could they carry dumb bombs, at least in a pinch?

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

Probably not, Marcello. The Austrians are going through a strong pacifist phase, and their Typhoons cannot even carry underwing fuel tanks: this prevents them being used "offensively".

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

As far as I know gfrom reading a few editiosn of Air FOrces Monthly the tier one Eurofighters can't carry any bombs. It seems the hardpoints are not the right sort.
Plus they don't even have software to launch bombs (Impact Marker on HUD and stuff), so the pilot would drop the things without any referencee marks, which wouldn't be so effective after all I think, and we don't really need a Typhoon 'bomber' unit in game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

Mr Clark,

That is arguably the case for Germany, Italy & Spain. However, with the continuing delays to the project and the Jaguar's rapidly approaching OSD, the RAF insisted on early integration of an air to ground capability by BAe. Thus, the later production machines within Tranche 1 for the RAF can drop bombs etc.

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

The RAF aircraft will be immdeately overhauled to tranche 2 or later on even tranche 3 standard before being actually delivered to the RAF. (at least thats what AFM states)
It's unique for the RAF as they buy one of the largest numbers of EFs, for the moment only Germany is looking into a similar deal, the other customers want their planes fast first of all, so Austrian AF Typhoons will not quickly be AG capable.

Re: Austrian OOB - J35 Draken OSD
 

Actually, last I checked 2/3rds of the Austrian Typhoons will be Tranche 2 aircraft (since the production run coincides with the switch), and the first 6 shall be updated to the same standard (since we ordered 18 identical aircraft).
So theoretical AG capability should arrive sometime in 2008.
(Incidentally, I can't seem to find an actual in-service date, only the delivery schedule of 4 in '07, 12 in '08 and 2 in '09. Hope that's not completely useless.)


On the bomb issue, I have to side with DRG - we may not actually have any IRL, but
a) it's not like we couldn't get them if we wanted, and
b) useful aircraft are kinda necessary for game balance.


edit: 4-12-2, not 6-10-2. My mistake.

Also, June '07 seems to be pretty much impossible as an in-service date, since the defense ministry is trying to delay the first delivery until November, due to a bureaucratic screw-up.