Slingmod
 

"I like slings. I'd like to change the normal slings, but unfortunately I can't remove the no-str tag from it. I can, however, make new weapons... and I've always wanted to see Jotun Slingers. So in the 0.50 version of the Slingmod, I replaced Jotun Hurler with Jotun Slinger in LA Utgård. If #clear command is added for weapons, I'll release a 1.00 version that changes the normal sling."

Jotun sling deals -2 points of damage (so 18 after strength of 20...), with range 20, precision -2 and 10 shots per fight.

<font color="purple"> EDIT</font>

Sombre has put together another version of the Slingmod. It changes the slinger units in the game to use the new, improved sling. It can be downloaded from this post later in this very same thread.

Re: Slingmod
 

Why would you need a #clear command for weapons? Just make a new sling and change all the sling using units in the game so they use it instead. There aren't actually that many of them, after all.

Re: Slingmod
 

I've had the idea for a long time. Without Edi's lists, it would've taken a long time. Also, while the number of units is rather small, I'd have to replace all their weapons (e.g. Spear, Sling of Mictlan warriors with Spear, Balearic Sling every time). I could do that, but it'd take too much of the little time I have. I haven't had a chance to use a computer in two weeks, and it'll be another two weeks before I get to use a computer again after Monday.

Re: Slingmod
 

I'm not sure that you'd have to replace both weapons. If you just give them a new missile weapon that should overwrite the old sling and let them keep whatever else.

Anyway, how about I do it? You've already done the code and whatnot, so it wouldn't take me long. I could probably get it finished tomorrow.

Re: Slingmod
 

I tried adding Jotun Sling to the Jotun Hurler unit, and the sling replaced his axe, leaving him with Fist, Jotun Sling, Boulder. I might've done something wrong, though; I'm not that experienced with editing existing units' weapons.

I'd really like to see this old idea actually work in the game, and it'd be really great if you completed the mod.

Re: Slingmod
 

Here's the Slingmod I came up with. You get range 33, damage = str -2, ammo 15,.. everything else is normal.

All the units with slings in the game now have these strength based slings instead. They haven't lost any melee weapons (you were right, you have to put them in manually for some crazy reason, but it still only took 5 minutes so I can't complain)

It's attached. Enjoy y'all ;]

Re: Slingmod
 

Time to go play MA Mictlan http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Slingmod
 

I've been thinking about this one. It might be possible-depending on how their bodies are put together-that Jotuns simply don't have the ability/dexterity to use a sling.

Throwing a spear is a little bit different-and requires a different set of motions from-using a sling. The whirling around required to hurl a stone from a sling might be something Jotuns just physically can't do. I've heard speculation along these lines about Neanderthals-that, because they were put together differently than humans in their shoulders, they were unable to use ranged weapons, and so humans were able to massacre them from a distance.
Jotuns-with their far heavier skelital structure, might suffer from the same handicap as Neanderthal-man.

In which case, the Jotuns could still use atlatls, grenade-weapons, harpoons with lines, "lawn-dart" type weapons, shurikens, and ofcourse crossbows. They also would probably not be able to use ball-and-chain weapons, but they'd be likely to use flails with several heads and various types of maces and nets, because of the area-effectiveness of those weapons-they're big enough that at times they could put themselves at a major disadvantage trying to use only precision-weapons, like axes and spears, against small enemies.

Re: Slingmod
 

Think you're going a little over the top with the 'realism' there.

By the way, have you released any of the 12 or so nations you said you were working on? Just wondering if I missed them on here.

Re: Slingmod
 

It wasn't ranged warfare that wiped out the Neanderthal. It was a 4000-6000 calorie requirement and a birth to death ratio that was .01% worse than Cro-Magnon.

Scientists come up with theories everyday about things from the past. I would be willing to bet that Neanderthal could and did probably use projectile style weapons (very primitive).

Re: Slingmod
 

Regarding slings, they are nostrength for a reason: The power of the slingstone is not related to the actual physical strength of the slinger the same way the power of e.g. an axe blow is. The power is provided by the whirling motion and it requires more manual dexterity than strength to use the sling more effectively. A slingstone hurled by a man average strength will do more or less the same damage as a slingstone hurled by a very strong man simply because the mechanics of how the sling works and how fast you can whirl it before you run against the laws of physics render the strength difference fairly irrelevant.

That said, a Jotun would be able to sling a larger stone, which would cause greater damage at same range, all else being equal, so you get a bigger projectile impacting for the same speed, so when you figure Ek=1/2mv^2, a slingstone five times heavier will have 5 times the energy. It'll also have more momentum, so having a Jotun Sling with greater damage is justififed. Making slings strength dependent weapons is not, in my opinion anyway.

Re: Slingmod
 

I don't think that's strictly true. If you crank more power into the motion of the sling surely you're bound to release the stone at a higher velocity? I mean assuming the sling is strong enough to allow you to put in all that power without breaking it.

I think about it this way - a machine could sling much farther than a human being using the same technique, right? Well having enhanced core strength would make you more like the machine.

Re: Slingmod
 

Generally yes, but remember that we're dealing with the limitations of the human body (structure of the wrist, arm and shoulder), so that puts a certain cap on how fast you can spin it. The thing that would most increase the power would be the length of the sling, since it increases the radius of the circle and thus the radial velocity or whatever it is you call the velocity of the stone as it travels along the edge of the circle before being released. There is a practical limit to how long the sling can be before the slinger gets entangled in it.

A slinging machine would not have to deal with the limitations of human body structure unless specifically built to simulate them.

The way you can test this issue is taking a piece of string weighted at one end and start whirling it like a sling. There comes a point where no matter how hard you try to increase the speed of the whirl, the increase in the speed is negligible. Try it with strings of various length. The speed of the whirling stone around the circumference of the arc and its mass are what determine the power of the sling far more than the strength of the slinger. A heavier stone will do more damage than a light one at the same range, but a lighter stone will travel a longer distance.

Re: Slingmod
 

But you could argue that an artificial boost to strength, such as that from casting strength of giants, is allowing the slingers to overcome the limits of their 'natural' build. And the increase in strength gained through experience alters the damage done by their sling-fire because they are more accurate or have better technique.

Maybe the forumla isn't spot on, but the way it translates into the game works out. If the unit had high strength to begin with, he's using a bigger sling and projectile. If he had his strength boosted by a spell then he's being given abilities beyond what is 'natural' and is more like a slinging machine.

Regardless of this, as a gameplay thing I think I prefer it to vanilla slings, because it allows some nice combos with strength spells, etc and it differentiates slings from shortbows further.

Re: Slingmod
 

Lets just say that high strength=big stones and leave it there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Slingmod
 

Edi makes a good point (and is right, as long as the sling and the stone aren't changed), and I know it's a bit of a stretch, and I know that slingers wouldn't really have too big stones collected for the off-chance that a wizard casts a spell on them, but it makes slings more interesting. That's enough for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Slingmod
 

Sombre, I have one that's just about finished, including graphics-I haven't posted it yet because there's still a little polishing to do, and I have an actual life with work and things, also my wife and I are house-hunting, so that's where all my free time goes, lately. The rest still need more graphics, but they're mostly charted out as far as stats go.

As far as realism goes, why not? It's better to say that there's a good, solid reason that the Devs don't *want* Jotuns to have slings, as opposed to just denying them for balance reasons, and no other reason. It makes more sense that way, the world runs more smoothly-for me atleast.

Plus, it distances Jotuns a bit from just being big humans-big humans who could never function in any "real" world situation because their bodies wouldn't work on that scale. I realize that it's fantasy, but I like my fantasy with a little bit more depth and complexity than kindergarten make-believe. It doesn't have to be completely realistic, because otherwise it wouldn't be fantasy, but it should make sense and follow some kind of rules, if not the laws of our physical universe, or else it's just pretend.

Re: Slingmod
 

Not saying you shouldn't make the mod, it does make them more interesting, which is all good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But I just had to jump in because people were getting the actual physics of it wrong, and that sort of thing makes my brain itch. And if it itches, it needs to be scratched. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Slingmod
 

Are you suggesting that people who have already posted mods here don't have an actual life? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Slingmod
 

Ofcourse I am! that's exactly what I'm doing-except I don't suggest, I demand! They were born and exist purely and simply to satisfy my personal entertainment urges.

Dance for me! dance for me, you beautiful bastards!

Mwahahahahahahaaa!