Best satellite design?
 

I want to start a little dicussion on satellites. What do you think is the best weapon to put on one? It seems to me that if you are using them to defend a warp point, the allegiance subverter is the absolute best choice.

CW

Re: Best satellite design?
 

One more question: If you put 2 combat sensors on a ship will you get a 120% bonus?

CW

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CW:
One more question: If you put 2 combat sensors on a ship will you get a 120% bonus?
CW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
only one combat sensor or ECM is effective per vehicle, so the answer is NO


and the best weapon to put on one ??
maybe the Null-space projector, but then you'll get a pretty expensive satellite. I generally don't use sats. or mines, or any unit that i can't move,
i love moving things http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

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Q: When he went, had you gone and had she, if she wanted to and were able, for the time being excluding all the restraints on her not to go, gone also, would he have brought you, meaning you and she, with him to the station?

A: Objection. That question should be taken out and shot.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

hmmm, now you got me thinking about satellite designing damnit http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

well, here are my thoughts,
since satellites don't move, i think a long range/high damage weapon would be very effective.
Allegiance subverter could work, but what if it fails, then you're sats are defenseless.

and if i'm not mistaken, there should be a multiplex trackong component on each of the sats in a stack, or else you can only fire on one ship at a time.

Before phased shields are being used, you could also fill them with phased-polaron beams, but those sats wil eventually become obsolete.

/offtopic
what rank comes after corporal, and when do you get it, i almost got 100 Posts, is that enough for a promotion ?

[This message has been edited by LemmyM (edited 15 June 2001).]

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I rather like "disposable" things. Just hope that I don't get a ticket for littering in space some day! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Once I deploy the satellites they are simply forgotten, especially since they don't cost anything to maintain. A simple small satellite with a combat sensor and an allegiance converter is very cheap at 1050 minerals and 80 radioactives each, and I can pay for 2 of them for a turn worth of maintenance for a cruiser. More than that, what's better than fighting the enemy with his own weapons? (Sorry girls! All of my computer game opponents are males somehow. I'd love to change that though!) By the way, what does the Null-space projector do? It is not in the demo.

CW

Re: Best satellite design?
 

null-space projector skips armor and shields, and does reasonable damage, but the reload rate is 3

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Just some more of my thoughts on satellite employment... I think satellites are useless beyond the first round unless you have some ships to cover them, since they can't move and your opponent can avoid them, but then satellites exist because ships are expensive. This is not to say that they are exclusive of each other, as satellites can be very effective force multipliers IF you have ships too. However I prefer the no-brainer-low-management approach and use them like mines (AND grab my ship support locally from the enemy! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif ).

CW

[This message has been edited by CW (edited 15 June 2001).]

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Plasma missile satellites appeal to me -- PMs are fast, do decent damage, and have long range, while incoming missiles can't even target satellites let alone hurt them.

Of course, they don't hit fighters and can be beaten by PD, so you can't use them as the ONLY defense, but they're handy.

FWIW, 'tho, most of the satellites I've built are recon satellites -- sensors, long-range scanner, and cloak. Sprinkle throughout your own and adjacent systems, distributed to get good scanner coverage and some redundancy (since a clueful opponent with a scanner may notice and target recon satellites, and I don't recall being able to fit a scanner jammer on the satellite).

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Unless you're playing devnullmod or similar, sats are only really useful on warp points, in which case you want high damage weapons. Since range isn't initially an issue at warp points and you can't pursue the target with sats, you have to hit it as hard as you can on the first combat turn. Screw range, stuff reload times, you want to twat it on the first shot. Once you've crippled it you might need something longer range / more frequent fire rate to finish off your enemy, so throw in a few beam weapon sats or something.

I usually design a long range and a short range sat and deploy them more or less equally. In my current vs AI game (devnullmod, 1.35) I used warp sats to fend off the crysonlite for about 50 turns even though their weapon tech was way ahead of mine: I was escort, they were cruiser. I was DUC II, they were Shard cannon X. They had PDC, shields; the works, but about a dozen small external CSM sats with a few DUCs thrown in kicked their arses royale, turn after turn. OK, that's against an AI, but it was still well worth investing my surplus resources in=-)

Design lots of different sats and pile them up on warp points. The more you have, the more chance of killing something and the less chance of being destroyed.

Basically, variety and mass is the key. Sats have no maintenance so you can just keep on building more whenever you have a resource surplus. CSM I might be a crap weapon but if you're firing 30 of them in one combat turn at range 5 then you're looking at some serious damage.

Unless you have several armed space stations or the sat mounts of devnullmod, then they're not much good over planets, but for warp points (until you develop fighters anyway), sats are my favourite defence.


Of course eventually you'll hit the max units in space limit but that's another story...


BTW, this post comes with my standard "been down the pub on a Friday lunchtime" disclaimer=-)

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I haven't really figured out what the LR scanner do but I just put it on my ships anyway. So, what does it do? Does it let you detect ships in the current system? Let you see what's on an enemy ship? Or what?

CW

Re: Best satellite design?
 

LR scanner lts you see what comoponents / cargo / damage etc an enemy ship has. The first level has a range of 1 square on the system map, level II 3 squares (I think) and level III more.

Well worth investing in, especially if you're an intel freak lik me=-)

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: Best satellite design?
 

CM: With the Long Range Scanners, you can see the enemy ship design (if the ship have not the Scanner Hamer or the Scatered Armor).
Very useful in simultaneous multiplayer games.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

me agreeing with dogscoff for a change http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

LR II scans 3 sectors away, and LR III scans 5 sector away

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LemmyM:
me agreeing with dogscoff for a change http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

LR II scans 3 sectors away, and LR III scans 5 sector away<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It lets you see the design of the enemy ship and cargo if it has any.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Missile Ships don't need a combat sensor right?

CW

Re: Best satellite design?
 

In early game, my sats have PPB's exclusively. In later games, I mix PPB's with WMG's and a few dedicated shield sat's. (I don't know why, but if I throw in 1 Large sat with all shields / armor per 10 Weapons sats, my Groups Last a h@!! of a lot longer.) Sometimes I'll throw in a few Null Space but their range is only 5. I seem to have much better success even with PPB's range 6. It doesn't sound like a lot, but that extra 1 space seems to be very important most times.

I use sats almost exclusively at Warp Points. (Against the AI) I don't use mines or missles 'cause the AI still has difficulties with them and AI seems to do a lot better against sat's.

Lemmy, you CAN move sat's... I'll generally move my sat Groups towards the WP's on the outside of my reign. I'll usually keep a few Groups at strategic choke points within the bouderies of my empire. Sure takes care of any ships I miss or any that get hit by the spacial anomoly and end up behind lines.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CW:
Missile Ships don't need a combat sensor right?

CW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, but they will need Multiplex Tracking to target more than 1 ship....

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Missile Ships don't need a combat sensor right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Missiles have an inherent accuracy of 100% if they survive.

The only reasons why you would put a sensor on a missile ship are:
a) You want more accuracy on your PDCs
b) You have some beam weapons too.
c) You have space and money to burn http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Lemmy, you CAN move sat's<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You do have to carry them in a ship (with sat bays) though.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I disagree that sat's are only good for warp point defense. In fact I think they are more useful for planetary defense then they are for wp def.

Against an enemy that knows what they are doing, you get one shot in warppoint d, then the ships that are not damaged scatter, and you can't persue. Unless you have a LOT of sat's, or the enemy has very few ships coming through, it won't do much good.

But as planetary defense they are very good, even early on. A small sat can hold one CSM and one PDC. That's a good combo to handle ships or fighters. Plus you can put heavier coverage on a tiny planet than you can with weapons platforms. This is good for small, but strategically important planets. And if the enemy wants to get at the planet, they have to come in range of the sat's, unless you are way out matched in weapon's tech levels.

Geo

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
I disagree that sat's are only good for warp point defense. In fact I think they are more useful for planetary defense then they are for wp def.

Against an enemy that knows what they are doing, you get one shot in warppoint d, then the ships that are not damaged scatter, and you can't persue. Unless you have a LOT of sat's, or the enemy has very few ships coming through, it won't do much good.

But as planetary defense they are very good, even early on. A small sat can hold one CSM and one PDC. That's a good combo to handle ships or fighters. Plus you can put heavier coverage on a tiny planet than you can with weapons platforms. This is good for small, but strategically important planets. And if the enemy wants to get at the planet, they have to come in range of the sat's, unless you are way out matched in weapon's tech levels.

Geo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally, I never said they were only good for WP's. I said I only used 'em for WP's. And AFAIK, sat's will still clump together as 1 group and usually end up on the wrong side of the planet to do any good. Against that same enemy (that knows what they're doing), the enemy ships will just move to the other side of your planet, glass the planet, and ignore the sats. (Unless 0f course, they've fixed the sat grouping issue)...

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I tend to use satellites as early-warning stations in as many border systems I can find. If I have them I put a cloak, anti-cloak sensor and a scanner on board so I can get readings on what's coming at me.


If the AI is doing the usual with mines (nothing) then I send a cloaked ship to drop a few satellites in every system I can reach.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I would like to use sats more but now I only use them early in the game and as sensor units. If the problem with the deployment could be fixed to allow a wider range of deployments I think I would use them more. Better yet give them 1 movement in combat only.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marty Ward:
I would like to use sats more but now I only use them early in the game and as sensor units. If the problem with the deployment could be fixed to allow a wider range of deployments I think I would use them more. Better yet give them 1 movement in combat only.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can give them combat movement yourself. Very easy. Like this:

Name := Small Satellite
Short Name := Small Satellite
Description :=
Code := SS
Bitmap Name := Satellite
Vehicle Type := Satellite
Tonnage := 80
Cost Minerals := 80
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Engines Per Move := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Satellites
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 1 Descr := Small size makes unit 50% harder to hit in combat.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 50
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Combat Movement
Ability 2 Descr := Built in thrusters generates 1 movement point during combat.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Requirement Must Have Bridge := True
Requirement Can Have Aux Con := False
Requirement Min Life Support := 0
Requirement Min Crew Quarters := 0
Requirement Uses Engines := False
Requirement Max Engines := 0
Requirement Pct Fighter Bays := 0
Requirement Pct Colony Mods := 0
Requirement Pct Cargo := 0
Launched from Ship := True
Launched from Planet := True

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I seem to recall trying that on time and it didn't work. Maybe something has changed, I'll give it another go.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LemmyM:

Quote:

Originally posted by CW: One more question: If you put 2 combat sensors on a ship will you get a 120% bonus? CW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> only one combat sensor or ECM is effective per vehicle, so the answer is NO

Actually I've been fooling around with components in my mod, and I've found you can make the combat to hit plus effects stack if you have different' components with bonuses. It doesn't work if the components have the same family numbers, but otherwise you can stack the effects.

Personally I haven't had much success with using sats for planetary defense. The grouping problem is the main issue. Even the AI seems to know to ignore sats that are deployed on the wrong side of the planet and hit the planet first instead. On occasion my sats have done some good, but I've come to rely on mines and use my sats mostly as sensor buoys.

[This message has been edited by jc173 (edited 16 June 2001).]

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Even the AI seems to know to ignore sats that are deployed on the wrong side of the planet and hit the planet first instead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The AI is probably using Nearest in its targeting priorities. If it's using Strongest, as well, any Weapon Platforms on the planet should be targetted before any orbiting sats, regardless of where they are.

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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I've found large sat's good for no maintance mining rigs. You can only fit one on each satellite, but it's absolutely free.
They're great for large asteroid belt systems.
In higher tech level games, they are great if you get your combat turn first on warp points. Put some big a@@ wave motion guns onboard and tear them up before they have a chance to move.
If your fighting an enemy that uses torpedoes and fighters a lot, then large sat's with a load of point defense on board will screen a large number of them from your planet and or other fighting sat's and ships.
A lot of big guns can't hit a sat like the wave motion gun, this puts the offensive party at a slight disadvantage, and if they're close enough to use the big guns on your planet, chances are you can get them.
I only wish that instead of the way the Sat's are stacked, they would be spread out in an orbit around the planet. that way you could actually defend the planet from all sides effectively.
I don't think you should beable to shoot "over" a planet to the other side. It dosn't make sense for an empire to clump all their satellites together and send them around the planet together.
Their best feature I think is that they don't take any cargo space once their launched from a planet. That way you can have planetary defense stations as well.
Just my thought,

-Steve

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I only wish that instead of the way the Sat's are stacked<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why don't you launch them one by one?

CW

Re: Best satellite design?
 

How about launching from moons? Do you end up with a stack for each planet?

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Nope, one stack/sector no matter where you launch from.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Could you get different stacks, temporiarily, by launching from different planets during combat?

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Possibly, I don't know.

[This message has been edited by Jubala (edited 17 June 2001).]

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Doesn't work. Even if you launch a year after the first launch the second batch will be added to the first batch so they'll always be in one stack.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I find one of the best use for is a spy sats you hide them away in a system and find what ship are heading your way.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I find one of the best use for is a spy sats you hide them away in a system and find what ship are heading your way. Why use sat for defence when you got fighter - just an idea.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I find one of the best use for is a spy sats you hide them away in a system and find what ship are heading your way. Why use sat for defence when you got fighter - just an idea.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

Some of the stellar storms in the game are marked "This storm is opaque to most sensors...". Is it telling me that a LR sensor can't see out from the storm, can't see into the storm, or neither?

CW

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I like CSM on a Satellite at planets in Simultaneous games early on. True, the attack might come from the other side of the planet, but the attacker cannot be sure, so he has to consider the Satellites in planning his attack. Use the left over 20 KT for PDs or some other 20 KT beam type weapon so they will not be as vulnerable to Fighters later on.

Satelittes are great at Warp Points, but you have to build a ship to deploy them

If you are using Emergency builds early on (build colonizers quickly or ship yard bases), you can build Satellites during the slow turns as extra defense.

If you are on a large or huge world, W. Platforms perform better than Satellites. On smaller worlds you need the cargo space to make units(Troops, Satellites, Mines and Fighters), so Satelittes are a better static defense.

Once I have Mines or Fighters, I prefer building those for defense.

Re: Best satellite design?
 

If you are going to place satellites at a warp point, have a combo of engine damagers, wep damagers, and PD weps. They will get through with enough ships, BUT they will be "softened up!"

Re: Best satellite design?
 

I was just happy when I discovered the Religious Talisman and pretty much don't have to worry about 'to hit' modifiers on Sats anymore. Throw in a few Shield Depleters with beam weapons and anyone coming through that warp point is in trouble!

I've found lately, however, that some AI put multiple shield generators on their sats...let me tell you, having an entire dreadnought only able to take out one or two sats a turn is ANNOYING. heh heh

I currently play a modded Devnullmod, and mines have become useless. Any fleet can pretty much bulldoze a minefield nowadays. *sigh*

zen

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zenbudo:
I currently play a modded Devnullmod, and mines have become useless. Any fleet can pretty much bulldoze a minefield nowadays. *sigh*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A modded mod? Wow... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Best satellite design?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zenbudo:
I was just happy when I discovered the Religious Talisman and pretty much don't have to worry about 'to hit' modifiers on Sats anymore. Throw in a few Shield Depleters with beam weapons and anyone coming through that warp point is in trouble!

I've found lately, however, that some AI put multiple shield generators on their sats...let me tell you, having an entire dreadnought only able to take out one or two sats a turn is ANNOYING...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you currently using only PDC on them? I have found that with a PPB and Talisman equipped Battle Cruiser (and regular shields on the sat's of course), I can take out 10-12 sats per combat turn.

I'm not using any 'packaged' mod's - only a few to change production / system setup / etc and not battle situations...

Re: Best satellite design?
 

rdouglass: Heh...no doubt! A couple of things, though: Devnullmod's satellites are bigger (up to 160kt!), and the PDCs can't target sats -- only seekers -- but has minesweeping ability. So essentially, satellites are more useful, and mines less so. Also, there are different weapon mounts for the sats, too, so they can actually be dangerous against starships now. [in a nutshell]

Jubala: Yup, a modded mod. I added one or two things and deleted one or two things for play balancing. I also incorporate some elements of other peeps' mods to basically make a fun 'master mod' (like Tampa's sounds with Devnull's components). I actually go through every single change item-by-item in order to approve them for the master mod. Let's see...the current size of the full mod with new races and everything: 84MB. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif (I also substituted the a lot of in-game graphics (components, events) for others)

zen