SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

My apologies if this has been asked already, but does anyone know how compatible SE4 and SE5 are with Vista? And, for that matter, whether Vista is worth it? I'm returning to the States soon, and I'll need to buy a computer, and, of course, one of the factors that counts for me is making sure I can play SE4 on it. And, if SE5 is improved upon, whether it will also work on Vista...

Thanks in advance,

AMF

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

I can't help you with compatibility, however I have a nice comic you might like. Despite appearances the author likes Vista.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070331

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

They seem to work fine on Vista.

If you buy Vista, make sure to get Home Premium and not the crippleware Home Basic garbage. You don't want the Business editions for a gaming PC, and the Ultimate edition is very pricey.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

I will be avoiding Vista for as long as possible. I'll probably have to have it on a work machine, because sooner or later our customers who are using it will start phoning me up for tech support, but I'm going to press my boss to let me keep my old XP box alongside it, and I don't think I'll ever be using Vista at home.

From everything I've read, it doens't offer any worthwhile new features over XP. Basically there's no real reason to buy it excpet for (a) some stupid frosted glass eye candy or something and (b) Microsoft are going to try to bully software writers into making stuff incompatible with older version by refusing to make direct X 10 work on XP, thus forcing users to switch in order to run new games and apps. That's just extortion, in my view, and if that's the only way way can persuade people to upgrade then their operating must really suck, so will resist as long as possible. A new product should be a carrot, they shouldn't have to turn the old one into a stick.

Reasons for NOT getting Vista: you get (a) all this contraversial DRM stuff that everyone's going on about, which (if you believe the worst-case scenario ppl) cripples your media and sells your grandmother to a glue factory, or at best is just yet another layer of MS bloat to slow all your shiny new hardware back down to the performance of an arthritic Pentium II (b) an immature operating system riddled with brand new, as-yet undocumented security holes (it is MS after all) - at least XP has had a few years of updates to plug the worst of them.

So basically, I see no incentive whatsoever to 'up'grade to Vista. My next home PC will be Linux, or maybe a Mac (I think the wife might get on well with a Mac). SE will just have to work under emulation, or maybe I'll maintain an old XP box or dual boot to 98 or something- God knows there's enough install CDs and licence keys for that floating around.

Microsoft can kiss my hairy pink posterior.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

I have a question. Some time ago I saw a video on youtube for a new interface. The desktop was literally a desktop with documents as bits of paper lying on it. You could trace around a bunch of them to combine, and using the mouse sort them. I thought this was the new vista desktop but I might be wrong. Is that how vistas interface works, or was it some students project?

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Thanks for the advice all..

Don't get me wrong - I too am *very* ambivalent about getting Vista, and I am toying with the idea of just going with linux myself...but I'm no longer enough of a linux-head to feel totally confident that I can do that and still get everything done that I want to...so, it sounds like, I'll probably just go with another XP machine...

Thanks,

AMF

Ps: I'm writing this from a internet cafe in Siam Riep Cambodia, in the shadow of Angkor Wat...gotta love the 21st century...

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

As nice as vista sounds, it sadly has a piece of nagware.

But on the upside, and I need to look this up to make sure, Vista did win an award for being very secure.

btw, has anyone given this a try?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactos

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Hey Fyron why wouldn't you want the business editions for gaming? All versions of Vista have directx 10 last I checked the only thing the business edition lacks are the Windows games like Solitare and such.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Hmm, at least with WinXp, I find the pro version to be far better, for everything really, than the home version. Is something different with Vista?

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

I think the message was that you wanted the edition that was just above useless, but not too overloaded with overuseless features.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Vista Home Basic is the equivalent to crippleware XP Home. Vista Business editions have features that are generally useless to home users (like joining domains and other corporate server infrastructure), while lacking some of the media-oriented features. Ultimate has all of the features of Home Premium and the higher level Business one. Home Premium has all that most home users need. MS has a comparison chart of all of the versions on their vista site.

Instead of having just the basic crippleware and the "all in one" versions as with XP, MS made several versions in-between for Vista.

Dogscoff:
So much misinformation... The DRM stuff only applies to copy-protected files (like blu-ray and HD-DVD, and DRM-protected music), and was required to get any support to be able to play them in anything but low-res cripple-mode. Thank the MPAA. Other than the built-in HDCP stuff, which you can add on to XP to play copy-protected HD discs and such anyways, Vista's media DRM isn't really much different from what you have to add to XP to play DRM-protected files. It just happens to be installed already in Vista.

Note that the DRM features have no effect whatsoever on playing unprotected media files, and they certainly do not serve to make your machine run as slowly as a Pentium II.

Also note that OS X has similar DRM stuff included in it to play copy-protected files...

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Remember all the news stories about how they were putting things off? They canceled everything that was going to be 'new and different' like the new file system, just to get something out the door. What is 'new' is the additional system requirements. But then that was expected. Every new version of Windows eats the hardware gains made since the last release.

LOL!

Yep, I've got several Linux distributions on order with my new HDs. I think I can even make backups of my XP partition using Linux and not have to figure out how to circumvent the 'anti-piracy' measures in XP (Win9x could be copied to another drive/partition but XP makes this impossible, on purpose!) Once I learn how to do everything I need to do in Linux, XP will just be a secondary OS that I boot only when required. When I buy a completely new computer I hope it will be Linux only. You never know if MS might manage to trap some poor vendor into their OS, though. I can get a Mac to use Adobe products. (Dang, I wish they'd do Linux!) But there might be something I still need Windows for. At least they've publicly committed to support XP until 2014. Hopefully I can just move my XP license if necessary and not have to buy any more MS products.

That's why I've been trying to get MM to support WINE. We need the SE series to run on something other than Windows.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Please explain what is 'missing' in XP Home? As I recall, you can't run it on multi-processor machines and a few obscure widgets needed for network administration are missing. Anything else?

Uh uh... and the Social Security number is only for tax purposes, not identification. (And yet that everyone who does any business at all needs to give their SS number out all the time.) And the RFID chips in our tires are just for the vendor to track inventory. (And yet they are not deactivated when the tires are sold, so you can be tracked using the vendor's customer records.) And the power of warrantless information requests given to the FBI is only for investigating terrorists. (And yet it was used to spy on anyone and everyone the FBI agents had a whim to snoop on.)

Do you really believe that DRM is going to stop at control of officially distributed media files? This is about getting control of our general purpose computers. Millions of uncontrolled general purpose computers are just too dangerous for the 'powers that be' to leave uncontrolled. Use LINUX (or at least FreeBSD) and don't support Big Brotherware!

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

There are a lot of "wizards" you can't disable in XP Home that make it a pain in the arse to use (its network file sharing mechanism comes to mind). It doesn't remember network share and printer info very well, which makes it a pain to keep my mother's laptop able to use the network-shared printer (shared by a 2k machine)... The compies with XP Pro and Win2k here have no such troubles, and don't even need to think about hackish solutions like making sure all the account names and passwords are the same on every machine.

You can always install a non-MS media player to play unencumbered media files if they make WiMP screw with them. DRM is nasty crap, certainly, but its only there because the MPAA and RIAA are obsessed with the stuff and demand it for digital distribution and the next-gen disk formats. MS doesn't care enough about their content to try to take complete control of your media playing capabilities...

But yes, the DRM is only applicable to DRM-protected files. It has no bearing on unprotected files whatsoever, and you will never have a situation where you won't be able to play unprotected files in Windows; it just isn't in MS's interests to do that. I currently have no problems playing any such unencumbered files in Vista... Its pretty paranoid to believe you will.

There are lots of good reasons to use Linux; unmitigated paranoia about DRM isn't really one of them.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Well despite my warnings my Mother bought a new lap top with Vista basic pre-installed and guess what, none of her programs work. Oh they told her they would all work, but they don't. She was mad about it that she returned to the store and in front of the store manager called the salesmen a "God damned liar!" for telling her that all of her programs would run on Vista.

Oh well.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Oh, man, I wish I could have seen that.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

I've yet to find a (non-ancient game that requires dosbox anyways) program I use that won't work in Vista.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

But if Vista doesn't even include the new file system, what is the point with it?

It can't be just a slower version of WinXP, can it?

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

It's going to "revolutionize the world." But yeah it's just an excuse to force an upgrade and push the need for spending more money on computers.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

It most certainly can be! They cancelled most of the 'innovative' features, such as the new file system (WinFS), just to be able to get it out the door. The primary changes are the fancy 'Aero' interface, the DRM garbage, and a bunch of API changes to make old programs incompatible.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

That isn't true, BM. Old programs _are_ compatible, for the most part. The old APIs are still supported in compatibility layers, much like Win9x apps are still supported in Win2x/XP (and so are those ancient 16 bit win 3.1 type apps, for the most part). You only have issues with programs that would access the low level parts of the kernel (like some AV software), that is now impossible due to the improved security model. I have yet to have any software or game compatibility issues with software I use/used on XP or Win2k. Then there is the new driver model, but that doesn't really hurt much of anything; any basic peripheral will have most likely have workable drivers already included with the OS, and more advanced stuff (eg: video cards) have new drivers available from the vendors. DirectX 9 and below games are still supported.

Vista probably isn't worth buying to upgrade your current computer, much like WinXP wasn't if you had Win2k (though it could well have been if you were still in the dark ages of Win9x). But if you are buying/building a new computer, you will be better off getting (non-Home Basic) Vista instead of XP. Some vendors (eg: Dell) have even been running "free upgrade to vista home premium" type offers lately.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Ok, So, can I ask some advice, then, for the linux guru types out there? If I were to buy a totally new computer, with the intention of running Linux on it, and I wanted to be able to do everything I can do with a new XP machine, what would be the best system/linux version/etc... to get? I've used linux boxes in the past, and even once set one up on my own, but I am only moderately wise to the whole thing, and would love any and all advice on pitfalls etc...

The only time I set up a linux box, I had lots of problems setting up the DSL connection, video and audio drivers, and installing new software...so I guess I'm sort of an idiot when it comes to all that...but I retain a perhaps vain hope that I could run a linux machine at home to entirely replace my Windoze one...

So...anybody know of a good website for linux quasi-newbies like myself?

Thanks,

AMF

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

I wonder if you can buy a system already set up with a Linux OS?

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Ubuntu is a good distro. For any hardware you are thinking of getting, some Google searching will turn up compatibility issues. Its usually better to buy your own hardware, rather than get a prebuilt system. Some PC manufacturers use some screwy parts that have less compatibility. Sometimes you can be fine; just make sure to do some research.

Don't buy anything ATI; their *nix drivers blow.

You aren't going to be able to do quite everything on linux that you can on XP (probably mostly gaming). Dual booting always works though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

AT:
Yes, there are boutique vendors that will sell you a system with linux pre-installed, but it'll cost you. Interestingly, Dell is currently floating the idea of selling systems with Linux, though they haven't settled on a distro yet, to my knowledge.

Its not that hard to install linux these days, however. Provided you go with a distro geared towards ease of use rather than elitism, of course...

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

If I managed to install Linux, anyone can. Of course, I quickly abandoned the whole linux experience after discovering that my sound card isn't supported. I needs my sound!

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

You can get machines with vendor-installed Linux, but what I have seen aren't all that good compared to roll-your-own.

http://store.madtux.org/index.php

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Ok,so, I've sort of made up my mind that when I get back I'm going to get an empty box from Dell, and install some version of Linux on it.

Is there any consensus on the best releaseof Linux to use for a quasi-newbie with a new machine? I'm concerned about drivers (I always seemed to have hardware that was lacking linux drivers...) and I'd rather not have to compile it all, just buy a version that I can install (*just* until I get smarter at linux!)...

Also,given that I want to play SE4 (and maybe SE5) on it, what is the best emulator to use?

Sorry for all the questions. I just trust and value the opinions of people on this board more than I do others. It's also hard for me to do lots of research at the moment...and maybe I'm a leetle bit lazy...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thanks in advance...

AMF

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

ubuntu is good for a beginer, you won't be able to play se5 on it though, might be a good idea to have a duel boot and have windows on it too.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

I'd second the recommendation for Ubuntu. The Ubuntu people will mail you free installation disks, IIRC. You can also just download the CD images for any distribution for free.

Be aware that you won't be able to play SE5 under Linux. SE4 can be played with Wine or Cedega, but not SE5 at this point. You can always create a small partition for Windows though, and boot into it to play SE5. Assuming you have a Windows install disk, of course..

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

So what is the scoop on Vista Ultimate? Has anyone here used it before?

I am thinking of buying a new laptop with Vista on it. It comes included with Vista Business, with Media (whatever that means) and will only cost me $50.00 more to upgrade to Vista Ultimate, with Media (again, whatever that means).

So what are the pros and cons with Ultimate?

Note: I am not looking to start an XP vs Vista argument.

Edit: I'm dumb. I know what "with Media" means. Gees, one of those days...

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

"with media" probably means that they give you a Windows CD, rather than just a drive image restoration disk.

When comparing Business to Ultimate, the main difference is that Business has all of the media-related functions stripped out; no Media Center, no DVD Maker, and other things of that nature. Also, Ultimate has access to the "Ultimate Extras", which are of rather dubious value at this point in time.

Check out the feature comparison chart.

Re: SE4, SE5 and Vista?
 

Just adding my 2 billion Turkish Lyra.....

Anyone who uses a laptop to do any kind of "in the field programming" of devices via 485/rs232/serial should NOT get a new machine with Vista on it.

That might be what Fyron meant by "AV software." I typically program universal remotes, security panels and DVR's, and Crestron and Lutron processors.