Insta-rout?
 

Here's one I have never seen before.

I selected an SS infantry platoon in this first battle of the long campaign and fired with it at a scout squad of the Poles. The unit fired and caused no casualties. This unit, I believe, either had no suppression or 1 point. In any case it was low enough to fire (the first time to fire this turn and had not been rallied prior to firing) and IIRC it had 6 shots.

The scouts react fired back and caused a casuality. Suddenly my very experienced SS unit was mysteriously routed with 99 suppression!!! Was this some over-dramatic leader kill feature or something? I can't vouch for who was the leader before this, although I could get an earlier save and find out if it matters.

I tried attaching the save game file, but no searches turn up with it.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

Uh-oh, I have a suspicion what may had caused this. This or the prior turn I had accidentally renamed a unit to nothing. For example "E2 " without quotes. The unit which routed was the E2 unit. I had re-named either it or the E1, but I'm leaning towards the E2 unit being the one that was re-named. Anyway, I re-named it again to what look like the other units InfGruppe SS, so that might help here.

I have no idea how to attach a file that windows cannot find.

Okay, more research. It was the prior turn that I re-named a unit, but it wasn't the E2 unit, but the E1. The E1 was re-named not entirely correctly. It was not called "InfGruppe SS" but " InfGruppe SS". In other words there was a space on the first character space.

I will re-load that save, keeping the old one and play onwards and keep a new save too for the correctly re-named unit and see if anything like that happens again.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

Your unit had a casualty and pulled back in panic - so will quite likely be in rout from the combat result.

Use of the "R" key to rally them should usually get them back in order, and since they are "elite" then this should be easier than for a line unit.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Insta-rout?
 

Hi Charles, any unit can completely panic (supr 99) from a single casualty. SS is not immune from that. It's just much less likely to happen with them. But sooner or later it will. That's why you've didn't see it before. Try a game with really low quality troops and you'll see it happen with some regularity.

Narwan

Re: Insta-rout?
 

I have been playing this or any SP variant for quite a long time, and I tell you it's not the least bit normal, especially for an elite unit. If this were a 30 rate morale unit that "might" be applicable, but even the times I have played those units I had never seen anything like that. Read the description again. Have you EVER had a unit on your turn, which had very low suppression, if any at all, take ONE shot that took out a man and have it rout to the tune of "99" suppression? To make matters worse I don't think it even retreated (moved a hex), but surely, I have never seen a single kill, much less even three kills in one counter-fired shot, achieve this.

In any event, I haven't seen the problem re-occur after addressing the issue I thought had created it.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

If you say so, but as much as I've played this game, mostly with Germans, I had never seen it.

BTW, off topic really, but does every tank in this game come with smoke dischargers? I can't believe how many Polish tankettes have them. I look at the tanks using them, for example the 7TP, and I see nothing like that listed. It's getting to be a real nuisance. From what I remember of most earlier SP variants only some of the main later battle tanks had them (PZIV's, Panthers, Tigers, T34's etc.), certainly not something as early or as small as a 7TP. I think I even seen a tankette of the Poles that had nothing but MG's do it too, but I'm not too certain.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

I've seen it quite regularly, even a couple of times with japanese infantry or US marines.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

I have had the 99 supression from taking a single causality happen on only a few occosians, certanly under 10. All were very similiar to this: Just this morning at my home in Poquoson Virginia I advanced a sqd. of LMG troops (Star Troopers) and after being shot and taking 1 causality from a range of 50m (the next hex) from a defending german rifle sqd. they retreted with the maximum delux suppresion of 99.0 points.
Notes:
The germans were not dug in, but I don't think that makes any differnence
The LMG troopers sqd. were certainly not stock support troops, they had fought 12 prior battles. this makes a differance. Hence the star
They had 1 suppression to start out with! this is important.

Finially to conclude I think the Insta rout '99 just randomly happens on very rare occaisons regardless to a units name or their expeirence or their taste in fast food. Whereass normal routing 16-20-67-88, whatever, DOES have everything to do with prior suppresion, expeirence, wheither nor not the army is routed( I hate when that happens)

Plz post any respones polite or other wise, I love reading the forums and when people respond its very interesting.

P.S. sorry for speling got to run my professor hates late people.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

I've had this happen to me before. I like to think that it's because the 1 casualty was the section's beloved sarge getting his head blown off or something similarly unsettling for the rest of the grunts. Maybe losing a medic would also cause this kind of mass panic. It doesn't happen very often but it is frustrating because then it takes several turns for that unit to get a clean pair of shorts and be ready to continue the advance.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

Essentially, this is exactly what happens. It's rare and it's random and it's in the supression code because every unit, no matter how experienced, can sometimes break for "no reason".

Don

Re: Insta-rout?
 

OFF-TOPIC:

narwan

is that you from the old list?

if not forget I said a thing,

if not then Hello! -

if not remember me, then dlazov or zovs2002

Cheers

BACK ON TOPIC:

Yes, its random, I had a squad with 88% exp in a campaign with 8 kills, get hit take 1 casualty, go to 99, then the next turn I rallied it down, next turn it got hit by massive arty and took 6 hits and dispersed. Rare, but such is life...

Re: Insta-rout?
 

So any ideas about the very early Polish tankettes being laden with smoke dischargers? They are at least in the 7TP's case. The OOB's show nothing of the sort, and neither does the in-game right-clicking of the unit.

In case you don't understand what I'm saying, I wouldn't expect that the AI would take three separate smoke rounds and fire them in a V pattern around the front of the AFV. No, it appears they come out of thin air, just as if they were using smoke dischargers (not fired from the gun). As I said earlier, I think I even seen one that only had only MG's do it too.

I don't think any of the '39 Gerry tanks have them, but that is the mistake of trusting the OOB's to tell you the real deal. Perhaps if I hit the smoke discharging key, whatever that one is (yes, I can easily find out, I just don't use them myself) it will go off for any vehicle that doesn't have them? Since I don't use them, or almost never do, their overuse in my case doesn't bother me, it's the enemy AI using them like they're going out of style when they shouldn't even be available, that is bothering me.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

Charles can u give us a screen shot or saved game so we can visual see what you are talking about? It shouldn't be to hard to recreat.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

Ramm: No need to. I was unaware that the 7TP is listed in those OOB's in more than one slot with the exact same name, despite the fact that they are armed differently. So for my checking for smoke dischargers I noticed the first one which had no sd's. There is another 7TP I see routinely in '39, but it's obviously different as it's some 7TP Wserzycy or something.

Most of the OOB's I am familair with is the Gerry stuff, and usually their tanks are equipped the same be they a police version or not, so I am a bit surprised to find two Polish tanks with same name, combined with their armanent being different, as well as one not having sd's. It is kind of odd too, because I don't think any of the Gerry '39 AFV's have sd's. To confuse matters more I am under the impression that if you right-click an enemy unit it doesn't show sd's, but I may be wrong on that count too, as I could had always clicked an MG-only 7TP when I did it, though I could have swore that every one in that game had main guns and not MG's.

I don't care whether I can see a tank has sd's or not while playing them, because if I go through the OOB's thoroughly enough I will be able to find sd's if they have them.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

This thread ("7TP Bug?") in the TO&E forum already covers the item (and concludes that there should be no S/D in early Polish tanks).

In future - if you have an equipment question, then please address it in its own thread and in the TO&E sub-forum, rather than drifting from the original thread (which in this case was about retreaters failing morale tests). This makes it much easier to find the thing again in the future, should it need re-reading for reference (e.g. when working through OOB mods for the next release etc.).



Cheers
Andy

Re: Insta-rout?
 

As Andy noted this topic should NEVER have been included in this thread. However, now it is and I have no way to move it without moving everything. The issue will be dealt with. The "additions" came from an outside contributor and I missed that they had been added when I added them to the OOB. Had I noticed they would have been removed. There are only 5 pre 1940 Polish tanks with smoke dischargers.

here's the list

NationID NationName name Unitclass slot yearavailable smokedischargers
2 Poland 7TP wczesny 13 451 26 1
2 Poland 7TP 13 459 38 2
2 Poland 9TP 13 466 39 2
2 Poland 10TP 30 557 38 1
2 Poland 14TP 30 558 39 1



When I get time, I'll fix them and issue a correction. For now, live with it. It's a very minor issue. They are NOT "laden" with them.

Don

Re: Insta-rout?
 

lol I think he was offended when the tanks were said to be laden with smoke discharges.

Re: Insta-rout?
 

Firstly, I hesitate to start a new thread because of my treatment elsewhere when doing such a thing and it was only a minor point (sd's that is), besides, I did start this thread did I not? I can see your troubleshooting point however. Secondly, though I touched on this being an irregularity I did not conclude it was a bug. Thirdly, if you have 9 or 10 of those things going off, when you not only do not have them yourself, but that the other side probably should not either, it is a bit laden. Despite ANY of my SP experience in the past, this is the most I had ever been hit by sd activity irrespective of the time period, so perhaps you could understand it under that context.