OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

I've got a winXP box that loses an hour consistently from its system clock. It is basically setting itself an hour earlier than what the real time is, some time after I fix it. I've fiddled with DST settings and such, but every combination still results in losing an hour after I adjust it. The machine has also now lost the ability to sync with time.windows.com or nist.time.gov, in spite of taking efforts to reset and reinitialize w32time service. I even tried disabling the "Windows Time Service" entirely, but it still sets it back an hour.

I thought it might have been a bug with the recent DST update, but the problem persists after uninstalling it.

I don't think this is a CMOS battery issue, because the time is not randomly losing minutes. It also does not lose multiple extra hours; it only sets it back an hour before the real time.

Has anyone encountered this before? Any idea on how to resolve it, short of reinstalling windohs?

For reference, I have attached a dump of the w32time registry settings.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

set it an hour forward so when it looses an hour it will be right?

might be an interesting test to see if it looses one hour or two.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

I am having the same problem fyron. On all my XP machines

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Somewhere in the menu brought up by double-clicking on the system clock is a simple checkbox for synchronizing the clock through the internet. Either uncheck this box or change your time zone setting.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

I'll try setting it an hour ahead, but I have my doubts...

douglas said:
Somewhere in the menu brought up by double-clicking on the system clock is a simple checkbox for synchronizing the clock through the internet. Either uncheck this box or change your time zone setting.

As I said in the OP, I have already tried every combination of those settings, and the system can no longer synchronize with Internet time... This is not an issue of how to use the system, it is a bug that has cropped up for which I am trying to find a solution. Also, that isn't really a solution anyways, because it will only perform the sync once a week. Even when the box was still able to do that sync, the clock would still get set back an hour, about an hour later. I wrote a little script a week ago to manually perform the sync (w32tm /resync) once an hour, which worked to fix the clock, but the time service is no longer able to sync even manually on the command prompt.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

It sounds like it's the Daylight Savings Time bug.

This year, various places (including most or all of the USA) changed the date when Daylight Savings Time went into effect. Microsoft Windows requires an update, or it will follow the old schedule and get mixed up, etc. It's especially nice since many networked computers rely on a time server, and will thus systematically re-set to the wrong time; and some M$ network software reportedly requires clocks to be in sync in order to authenticate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif . Win 2003 and Win XP SP2 should patch it if you go to the Microsoft Update web page and run their software (especially if you have their insulting "Genuine Advantage Genuinization Tool" or whatever-the-frack they call it). Earlier Windohs sufferers (including Win2K, and XP SP1 it appears) need to manually install a patch, which does exist but isn't the easiest thing to find...

As for why the frick Microsoft Windohs won't even let you set your own system clock manually and have it not be a problem, well, I'd chalk that up to typical M$ over-engineered "we know what you want - here, let us jam it down your throats" design.

PvK

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Yeah, that bug is affecting some of my co-workers. Their e-mails are constantly being sent 1 hour in the past. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

I have that exact same problem on my computer as well...I just readjust the clock and then ignore it, since once the "normal" DST time comes around, it'll fix itself I'm sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Yeah, this didn't start until after I installed the DST patch. It doesn't matter if I turn off the DST updating, it still sets back an hour. I even uninstalled the DST patch, but no dice.

Setting it 2 hours ahead didn't matter.

I think I'll try living in Arizona for a while... see if that helps. hehe

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Arizona time zone didn't help.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Yay! It's finally catching. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif My meme is finally spreading. Spell it WINDOHS to remind people how cruddy it is. Not only does this recall Homer Simpson's "D'ooh!", it carries some association with Playdoh, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Playdoh is for people who can't make modelling gunk themselves.

We've got a recipe.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Sounds like the DST patch doesn't work... sigh.

Ya, Baron Munch., the fine products of M$: M$ Windohs, M$ Outhouse, M$ Abscess, M$ Turd...

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

there is a problem and microsoft does NOTHING to fix it.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Don't forget Internet Exploder. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Actually, there is a problem because Microsoft tried to fix something. This is typical. The 'fix' for the animated cursor attack is known to break some software packages. They released it anyway because they were under a lot of pressure to 'do something' about this security hole. They are probably frantically scurrying around in their bureaucracy right now, trying to figure out how to fix the DST thing properly.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Geeze.. you guys will take any opportunity you can to bash MS. It's not appropriate in threads where people are genuinely trying to get help; take it elsewhere.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

We are just noticing that there is no help to be had -- not entirely off topic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Perhaps it is the BIOS system clock that is off? Maybe your hardware is trying to be too smart and compensating for DST, while the DST patch doesn't know how to deal with it.

Long shot, but if you've already tried everything else...

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

If it wasn't for windows, third party software mfg's would have nothing to bash to be able to push their own products and little incentive to make anything better.

As for the time problems, I have had no problems on 4 pc's with the DST update so I'm sorry to be of little help. Plus I don't have the time displayed.

Also I have retreated from keeping track of time per se. I don't wear a watch anymore, eat when I'm hungry not at some arbitrary time set by some clock , ie Noon. I sleep when I'm tired, get up if it's daylight out. My internal biotime has always served me well by waking me a few minutes before the alarm, so I don't use alarm clocks anymore. I don't miss my flights and I'm very relaxed nowadays. And generally feel better for it.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

I found an hour. It was in a tray with the spare change and car keys. It's in fairly good shape -- looks like it was only used a couple times to watch TV. If anyone's clock is still missing an hour, I'll post a link for downloading it (takes about an hour).

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

/me hands AngleWyrm a medal.

Cause that post deserves one.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Please post the link.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

aye, did you come up with that yourself?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

heh, ya. Was gonna make a countdown timer page to link to also, but...it'd take me more than an hour http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

For a more interesting hour, Gravity Probe-B preliminary reports are due next week. Frame dragging and spatial distortions.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Cool.

One thing I've wondered is, if mass is partially relative to the speed of light, what is the speed of light relative to?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Anything and everything that isn't accelerating, as long as the reference frame you use has the object in question at rest.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Ah, but at rest relative to what?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Your reference frame. To do meaningful calculations in any situation where relativity has a significant impact you will at some point simply have to arbitrarily define what is at rest. You can choose absolutely anything you want, it will all work out correctly regardless, but you have to pick something.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Hehehe, read this and had to chuckle.

Yes, it's the change in daylight savings time, but that's not why I'm snickering.

I'm snickering because 98SE doesn't have this problem at all. I set time to PDT manually on the new day. On the usual day, I fired up my bawx, and 98SE politely said, "Hey, boss, it's time to set the clock ahead. You want me to do that?"

I replied "no", and that was the end of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Why, why, why are more sophisticated mechanisms, (and there can be no doubt that XP is far more advanced and sophisticated than 98SE), always more subject to quirky little problems like this?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Somewhere, the shade of Herr Doktor Werner Karl Heisenberg is laughing heartily http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

How about a squirrel busily gathering nuts? I'm at rest relative to that.

Energy of squirrel = M*** of nuts times Chewing velocity. Squared.

Cause everyone should have a square meal.

That'll probably come up again with lots of jargon in it, if/when we break the light-speed barrier.

"Just cause it got from here to there and back before light did, doesn't mean it was actually travelling faster than light. Relative to itself, the photons experienced phase shifting dopplar blahzidy blah effects, so really it's not going faster. Einstein be praised!"

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

that question always confused me too narf.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

If mass and energy are the same thing, what happens when I move my coffee cup from one side of the table to the other?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Ok, so then, what's the difference between the speed of light here and at jupiter?

Remember, the planet Earth and the planet Jupiter are moving at different speeds in different directions.

Now think about that some.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Zero. The speed of light relative to Earth in a reference frame where Earth is at rest is exactly the same as the speed of light relative to Jupiter in a reference frame where Jupiter is at rest. This simple fact is the basis of most or all of the theory of relativity.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

I might point out that earth and jupiter are not at rest relative to each other.

Nor am I contradicting you.

It just seems to have some interesting implications.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

nor is the whole system at rest eaither...

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Which doesn't matter when you aren't comparing Earth and Jupiter.


Why are we talking about this in a windows issue thread, again?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

...I dunno.

Fyron...If the speed of light is relative to the nearest large body...Think about it.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

The speed of light isn't relative to anything; that's the entire point of relativity. Through vacuum it always travels at C. (which is what causes all the other weird side effects of relativity, like time dilation)

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

...Hey, I'm just working off what other people say.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Which doesn't contradict me at all, he just didn't explain it the same way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Hmm, yes, then he didn't answer my question, because I specifically asked the difference between the speed of light here and at jupiter *While both are moving*. Not at rest.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

The speed of light is the same here as it is near Jupiter. It is not relative to the nearest large body. That is the point; from all reference frames, the speed of light is the same.

This contradicts what you would expect, given the behavior of matter. eg: If I throw a ball, its speed of travel is just the speed at which I threw it, when we are discussing the reference frame of sitting here an Earth. However, the ball is really moving a lot faster than that. Its absolute speed is the speed at which I threw it, plus the speed of the Earth's rotation, plus the speed of the Earth's orbit around the sun, plus the speed of the suns movement in the galaxy, plus the movement of the galaxy... (though we really should be talking about velocities, not speeds.)

But with light, none of that is relevant; it travels at the same speed regardless of reference frame. Shine a flashlight from the surface of the earth, the light moves at c. Shine a light from (a stable, geosynchronous) orbit, the light moves at c. Shine a light from orbiting Jupiter, where you are moving at a different speed than orbiting Earth, the light still moves at c.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Ah, well, thanks. That answers my question and brings up a different interesting thought - That, using the speed of light, it should be possible to calculate an absolute frame of reference.

Anybody done that yet?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Might be able to do something like this with red/blue doppler shifts seen in surrounding stars.

For instance, take a given star and measure it's color-band shifts in spring when the earth is travelling in one direction, then again in fall when the earth is travelling in another.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

Why not just measure the speed of the earth relative to the speed of light?

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

The whole point of relativity is that an absolute frame of reference simply does not exist. No matter what frame of reference you use, light travels at c in that frame of reference. If you measure the speed of a planet as 300 km/s and then measure the speed of light relative to that planet in the same direction of movement, you will get c - 300 km/s. In the opposite direction you will get c + 300 km/s. If you then change your reference frame by landing on the planet so you are moving along with it and the planet is at rest from your perspective, repeating your measurements would tell you that light is moving at c relative to the planet in all directions.

Re: OT: System Clock Loses Hour
 

sooo...
the speed of light IS a frame of reference?

if I have a torch (flashlight) moving at 0.5c and I turn it on, the light from the torch would be moving at c right?
but, ralitive to the torch the beam is moving at 0.5c or 1.5c depending on weither the torch is facing forwards or backwards.

what narf is saying, is if you use said torch, and mesure the amount of time it takes for light to get from the torch to an known distance, you should be able to work out how fast, and in what direction the torch is moving, and therefore be able to say what "still" is.