Jomon, Broken Swords v0.8 RELEASED
 

PREVIEW IMAGE.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...ew%20Jomon.png

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UPDATE TO VERSION 0.8


Added Fox Chunin, Fox Kunoichi, Bunraku Puppet, Bunshichi Puppet, Handmaiden, Red Masume.

Altered various costs.

Added 2 new heroes.


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Summary: LA Nation replaces Jomon.

Strengths:
Good magic variety
Cheap samurai thralls
Seduce, spy, assassinate - they do it all
Cost effective undead summons
Cat Demons hard to finish off
Stealth army capable
Loyal Dog Samurai

Weaknesses:
Morale problems
Vulnerable to priests/holy damage
Weak vs missile fire
Good troops expensive
Fairly weak PD
Capitol only Sacreds

Re: Replacement Nation: Jomon, Broken Swords
 

Um, incase you haddn't picked this up, you still have the old heros from Jomon late age.

Re: Replacement Nation: Jomon, Broken Swords
 

Yep. Like I said, it's going to be seperate in a later version. For now they have Jomon vanilla heroes, national spells, forts etc.

Re: Replacement Nation: Jomon, Broken Swords
 

Oh and I know the PD is messed up. It's fixed for 0.4

Re: Replacement Nation: Jomon, Broken Swords
 

Looks interesting. It might be nice to make them an added nation rather than a Jomon replacement, so there would be more nations available for an all-Asian game.

Why do Samurai Thrall Cavalry carry maces?

Re: Replacement Nation: Jomon, Broken Swords
 

Because they need a melee weapon to use after their lances break and swords are pretty much banned for Samurai in this setting. The hint is in the title ;]

I've said twice already in the thread that they'll be an added nation rather than a replacement in a later version. So I agree :]

Although thematically they are a replacement (Jomon under the samurai fails and is replaced by this one) people like more options and it's a lot less messy if I just make them seperate and call them New Jomon. I did the same with Ulm Reborn for the CBM version and I'll probably go back and do it for the vanilla version too.

Re: Replacement Nation: Jomon, Broken Swords
 

New version is up. It's got more fixes than you could shake a stick at.

Including;
- various bugs and code quirks I'd missed.
- Nekoni nerfing! Yay!
- Summon Kyuuketsuki that's actually castable.
- New Krasue graphics.
- A banner that may or may not look better.
- Adjusted balance generally.
- PD and starting units which make more sense.

It still replaces Jomon LA but that'll change in the next version. For now i suggest using this one and giving it a quick test game. Maybe on aran or silent seas.

Enjoy.

Poor, poor lucky gandalf
 

I was playing a game with Jomon Broken, using about 10 O-Toyos to cause all kinds of trouble in enemy territory and I got this message (attached). Seems Gandalf is a sucker for ladies that turn into a giant cat demons.

Re: Poor, poor lucky gandalf
 

I just realised I made a fairly major goof with the national summons, so here's the next version.

It fixes a handful more problems I found, changes some values and most importantly makes Jomon Broken an entirely new nation (called New Jomon) - it no longer overwrites Jomon. Because of this fairly major change this version isn't compatible with your games as Jomon Broken so far. You'll need to restart entirely.

Anyway, v0.5 is attached at the first post. Enjoy.

Re: Poor, poor lucky gandalf
 

You dont know how true that is.

Re: Poor, poor lucky gandalf
 

Anyone given this a go?

Impressions?

Impressions!
 

Meant to write this earlier but I've been uber-busy. I've played Broken Sword to about mid game so far and like it much better than plain old Jomon. Excellent job on the graphics and the flavor text. It's obvious you've done your research and I love the Japanese horror film influence. That being said...

To me, the red Nekoni seem out of place with the regular troops. They just FEEL like they should be a commander unit. And did you mean to have both the O-toyo and Black Nekoni be recruitable? That seems a bit redundant since they are the same unit. Unless I'm missing something.

Also, though I must admit I've not seen every units abilities as yet, but I don't see any national summons. The update mentions castable Kyuuketsuki summon but I can't find it in my research lists for magic.

None of this changes the fact that I think this mod is awesome. I'll prolly never play LE Jomon again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Interesting side note: While playing, one of my commanders was attacked by a ninja. While Jomon wasn't in this game and it was just a random event, it was still cool to think that somewhere, Jomon still had it out for the Broken Sword empire.

Keep up the good work Sombre. Reading through your posts, it looks like you've got your plate over full with projects.

Re: Impressions!
 

I have played this mod. It's very interesting, and challenging in the early game where you can have definite morale issues. I've never seen an O-Toyo fail a Seduction, though; what is their 'number'? (IIRC, Succubus is 16, right?)

As far as the flavor is concerned... doesn't really fit with my knowledge of Japanese culture/history, but ah well. It seems to please most people. (A woman-dominated Japanese nation should be EA, not LA.)

I haven't played the new version with the fixed national summoners, I believe. (I tried summoning one of them, and got Visitors?!? Or was that another mod...)

I'll take another look and check stuff out.

Re: Impressions!
 

I half agree with you in regards to the Red Nekoni. Maybe it's their graphic but they're a bit odd as national troops. It's possible I'll do something about this in a future version, but they aren't going to be commanders at any point - they aren't that different from the the giants of Utgard, the werewolves, trolls and draconians of Vaetti or the Oni and giant bakemono of Shinuyama and Yomi.

The O-Toyo and Black Nekoni are indeed the same. I just wasn't sure that the AI ever used manual shape-shifting ability. Anyone know if this is the case? (A sidenote, I've found out that the AI can use call allies).

You're 100% right about the summons. In updating I managed to revert their restricted nation ID back to the old Jomon one.

Attached to the first post (in a moment) is an updated version which fixes this but pretty much nothing else. So if you want the three national summons, download it. Otherwise, no need to bother.

Re: Impressions!
 

When the red nekoni are killed they transform into 360 year old regular samurais(with -60% stats), not maidens.

Re: Impressions!
 

In the game I'm playing, my O-toyo's have failed seduction twice. Course, it was against C'tis too. Methinks lizardmen don't find humies that attractive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I see your point with the Red nekoni atleast, when compared with say, Neifel giants with reg giants. Perhaps keep the Red Nekoni recruitable units but make a commander version for them, ala the Niefel giant leader for Jotunhiem. I know you said perhaps not a commander, but maybe? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Of course I'm going to redownload for the national summons. THEY'RE FREAKIN NATIONAL SUMMONS!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Little too excited?

Re: Impressions!
 

Shovah32: Doh. Good catch. It's fixed now in the attached v.058.

Very easy fix, just forgot to update an old unit number.

Re: Impressions!
 

Not sure if this is intended or not, but black nekonis have the usual assortment of head, torso, arms, and boots item slots.

Thanks for the mod, I'm really addicted to it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Impressions!
 

I missed this reply the last time, just noticed it now.

The O-Toyo has a succubus/seduce ability of 10, so they should fail more often than the real thing. Maybe you've just been lucky - they do tend to be really good assassins even if they fail though, but they come at a steep price. Not 100% sure on their balance.

Yomi, Shinuyama and Jomon don't exactly fit Japanese history. Indeed you could say that only Jomon is really Japan - the three eras feel like different places to me. Regardless the idea behind the mod basically came from modern J-Horror (which is full of females) the old legend of the Japanese 'cat vampire' and some other asian horror influences.

The summons possibly aren't that well balanced.

Re: Impressions!
 

Just so you know, Sombre, Vedalken has a degree in Japanese Culture and Language, so he has a pretty good idea how close things are to history.

I'm curious as to his impressions on Shinuyama and Yomi. My guess, honestly, is that those two are closer to Japanese _mythology_, whereas the one you've come up with is much closer to, pardon the term, modern mythology.

Just a guess...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Impressions!
 

Yomi strikes me as slightly more pre-Buddhist Tibetan, or atleast proto-Asian than Japanese, but I'll admit it's more of an impression and perhaps a cutting-of-hairs than an absolute fact.

Also, I have to wonder why Onis are equipped similarly to Samurai-curved swords, armor, etc. when the Samurai culture apparently came after they did? I think I would have chosen to arm Yomi's nationals with Chinese influenced weapons over Japanese-or atleast used historically more accurate weaponry-and not shown the early Japanese influences until Shinuyama.

Later Oni *summons* would have been fine and appropriate with Samurai-garb, but the famous curved swords/bladeforms of the Japanese came as a result of Samurai culture, and didn't precede it.

Re: Impressions!
 

O.K. Read back thru the thread and didn't see this posted so I found a new (but interesting) bug for you. With the newest download, Broken Sword Jomon now has recruitable Succubi, worth no gold and only 1 resource! I'm imagining this was unintended since they weren't there in earlier editions.

I was running a game with New Ulm at first and thought I would check and see if it might have just been a freaky number coincidence but it's the same running just new Jomon.

Re: Impressions!
 

Yeah that's my bad. I was testing succubi seducing against O-Toyo seducing to see if there was a problem and I forgot to turn them off.

I'll fix this after some more feedback. I can't keep uploading like a million little fixes one by one.

What I don't understand is how I didn't notice that when I tested the new verison. Weird.

Re: Impressions!
 

Ah, the inspirations for Yomi and Sinuyama? It's quite clearly based on Tokugawa-period 'science fiction', if you will. Near the end of the 1600s, there was an immense burst of popular culture in Japan. Among other things that grew was the print industry, and there were entire genres that came into being. One such was the genre of the 'ghost story', which generally were set in the Sengoku Jidai (Warring States period, very well depicted in movies such as Ran and The Seven Samurai). Also think Inu Yasha. That would explain the references to samurai culture.

Sinuyama (which, BTW, means 'Death Mountain', and probably would be better as 'Siniyama) springs from the same genre, though more of 'popular folklore' with the kappa, etc.

As I said, I think I'll work on a true Classical period Japanese state, with a centralized government that no one really listens to, reclusive esoteric Buddhist sects (certainly not the populist Amida sects; this is where the Jomon Onmyozi come from) providing the magic, etc. etc.

If you link the references to the 'Kingdom of Wa' from BC Chinese sources to Japan (which many people do), their culture around 200BC appeared to be a female-dominated theocracy. I.e., women shaman were the community leaders. If you like, I could research this more.

Re: Impressions!
 

I thought it might be interesting to have a late period Japan where they've been heavily influenced or semi-conquered by LA Marignon forces, representing contact between the Portuguese / Spanish and Japan. Of course in history this was a gunpowder and cannon period, but it would still provide interesting inspiration for some sort of LA Jomon.

You could also have a MA / LA Jomon supposing they had been conquered by the Khans and their barbarian hordes, since historically the Mongols came close to launching a serious attempt on parts of Japan (stopped by bad / divine weather and distracted by other concerns).

Would your classical era Japan be EA?

Re: Impressions!
 

I don't see why it still can't be a gunpowered sorta age, cannons go a big far f you ask me, but then again you could have magic representing their guns.

Re: Impressions!
 

Almost certainly EA, maybe Middle. If you wanted it to 'match up' with the similar time period in Tien Chi, it would be middle. (It corresponds to Tang period China.) We'll see.

And, really, you could have gunpowder-type weapons in early age Tien Chi and Japanese stuff, since it actually did exist.

The main issue with Japanese nations is that if you have dismounted samurai, you really should also have guns. Guns are basically what caused the samurai to dismount.

It's kinda funny that LE Tien Chi is very close to what early feudal Japan would be like. It would just have a smaller emphasis on death magic.

Re: Impressions!
 

I didn't think they had special breeds of horses like those used by the mongols and other steppe tribes, so I'm guessing they couldn't have been so cavalrific.

I also wasn't aware China or Japan had any useful gunpowder weapons before the Europeans showed up and in Dom3 none of the Euro style nations have reached the gunpowder age. Their most advanced military tech seems to be pike formations.

I know I wouldn't mind seeing a gunpowder using early or middle tienchi varient though - a fusion of fire magic, fireworks and science. A few oddball military thinkers through the centuries have invented sort of one shot flamethrowers before.

Re: Impressions!
 

Oh, they didn't have firearms. They had mre siege-oriented gunpowder weapons (cannons, etc.).

And yes, the original samurai were mounted archers, with swords taking a major backseat to bows as far as importance goes. (This was mainly because the height of military technology pre-gunpowder was the mounted archer.) I can't tell you how special the horses were, except that the horses raised in the Kantoo plain (modern-day Tokyo) were larger and hardier than any others in Japan, and thus the Minamoto 'clan' (which was based there) had a 'leg up', as it were, against the other cavalry.

Really, in many ways the 'gentleman samurai' wearing haori, hakama, and daisho is an anachronism, as the samurai weren't really that way until the Tokugawa period (1600 AD+, after the Sengoku Jidai). You don't really see a real emphasis on bushido _and_ unmounted Samurai except in fictionalized accounts (like the Seven Samurai), or in the _very_ rare violent disturbances of the Tokugawa period (like the Chushingura).

Re: Impressions!
 

Hm...This whole discussion gives plenty of fuel to my idea that there should be more than 3 ages. Also, I'm thinking that it would be very nice if you have spell-lists that-while shared by more than one nation-are not universal. You could then have nations influencing other nations and adding spells to their list-kind of like gunpowder being brought over to Japan by the Portuguise/Dutch.

If the Jomon nations traditionally have never had, say, most of the Evocation spells, and by Late Era, suddenly they do, that would be an interesting facsmilie of gunpowder.

I'd really like to have the ability to take away from the main spell list, but I'm not sure if that's fully doable yet.

I've been thinking lately, what the world would be like today if gunpowder had never been invented. Maybe old Genghis Khan slaughtered a few different Chinese and tore down a different town or two in an alternate universe, and in the process nipped gunpowder in the bud.

You'd probably have things like steam-tanks, flame-throwers, and ofcourse advanced crossbows and the like, but warfare would probably have stayed with an emphasis on melee combat, horse-calvalry, and the longbow/crossbow for a much longer period of time. Personal armor would be much more advanced, since it wouldn't have to stop a bullet, but it would have to make your knight more surviveable, which means it wouldn't have a long period of obsolescence. Chemistry itself would probably be a lot more primitive-mustard gas might be on the "cutting edge", and used on a regular basis-as horrible an idea as that is. Ofcourse, it wouldn't be long before gas-masks caught up. Wars might also last for hundreds of years, since they wouldn't be nearly as dramatic or intense.

Eugenics would have probably both caught on and stayed on, as the ruling powers sought to breed more powerful, longer-lasting knights, while democracy and communism would have both suffered (communism probably more than democracy, since atleast some of the nobility through the church would have heard and admired of the Greek example, but then Russia wouldn't be so backwards, compared to the rest of Europe, and that might take the pressure off a bit.). I could definitely see communism popping up in other places than Russia though. Ofcourse, Nazi-style Fascism, with it's xenophobic hatred doctrines and willingness and ability to breed "supermen" would have gone over a lot easier and smoother. The French revolution probably would have still happened, but in America, the colonists would have required a lot more support from their home states, and the Indians wouldn't have had nearly as much of a disadvantage, and would probably still be powerful, especially the Iroquois Nation-both united and in a position to trade with the Europeans. South America ofcourse would still be ruled by the Aztecs, Incas, et all. China itself would probably actually be *more* powerful militarily without the invention of gunpowder-but then, their culture would be the most affected by the loss of fireworks.

Just to bring it back on topic, you might eventually have seen Europe settle into the kind of complacent society Japan was in, in the 15-17th century, only influenced by the ideals of chivalry, rather than the ideals of bushido.
It might not be as good as we'r starting to have it now, but then again, it might not be that bad, either.

If you just took away gunpowder and it's by-products (fireworks and all the centuries of chemical research and safety-practices that goes along with them, black powder, possibly the internal-combustion petrolium engine, probably dynamite, maybe sulfa-drugs) you'd have a much different world, different societies, and a very different battlefield.

Re: Impressions!
 

... mm, I think your idea, Badger, suffers a bit from reading a bit too much into things.

For one thing, Japan in the 15th-16th centuries was _anything_ but complacent (that's the Warring States period). Now, if you were saying that Europe in the 15th-17th centuries would be complacent like Japan was in the 17th-19th centuries, that would be better. However, the Tokugawa shogunate focused _all_ of its energy into preserving itself, and did so by numerous methods. The one I am most knowledgeable about is the _sankin kotai_, or the system of alternate attendance. I really wouldn't call Japan 'complacent' in that period, even so, so much as 'peaceful'.

And I'm not sure, but I do believe you can mod a 'base' spell into a national spell, so that only certain nations have access to it. If you can do this for one spell, you should be able to do it for all of them.

And, really, if you took away gunpowder, you would also have to take away not only the consequences of it, but the steps that led to it. And that, really, is impractical to describe from our current standpoint.

Re: Impressions!
 

Actually, VedalkenBear, and I mean no offense when I say that I think you're the one reading a little bit too much into my post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

It was just an idle thought-I wasn't trying to lay out 500 years of history as would occur without a crucial piece of technology, I was just speculating-brainstorming, if you will. If I'd been doing more, I would have tried to give sources and references, and I certainly would have researched more into it. I really was just aiming for conversation-and just maybe to get people who read it thinking in new directions, if possible.

And you're right, "peaceful" is a much better term for most of what I meant than "complacent". I just couldn't think of a better term at the time. I meant "complacent" in that they were happy with their culture as they had it, and were satisfied to keep it as it was-ofcourse, as you say, doing their very best to keep it stable-but not that they were apathetic or lazy about it.

Re: Impressions!
 

So anyway,...

ABOUT THE MOD,...

;]

Re: Impressions!
 

With the big 'mass undead' national spells, it might be nice to boost the Twisted Daimyo's undead leadership a bit. None of the recruitables can manage more than 40 as is. Of course, I suppose you can have Bane Lords for that...

Re: Impressions!
 

That's something I might do. I thought he was at 80 undead not 40.

Re: Impressions!
 

Ok, tonight or tomorrow I should have V6.0 uploaded.

As usual there are lots of little fixes - Twisted Daimyos get extra leadership, no more succubi etc.

EDIT: The sheathless were totally messed up - next version they will be fixed.

So any feedback you can give before that moment would be awesome. Really, anything at all. I'm kinda surprised that this mod hasn't generated more chatter.

Oh well maybe Arga Dis, which will be out next week, will take your interest :]

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

v0.65 is up. This one is well worth the update.

Details and file at main post.

PLEASE TIP GENEROUSLY. Hahah.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

Sorry, Buried/Burned/Drowned still have case problems with the graphics filenames. For the CBM version, too.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

They do indeed, because I haven't updated JB recently. It's all fixed on my computer, but I didn't want to update until I had done a couple of other tweaks / content changes.

The CBM version is based on 0.65, also hasn't been updated and so has the same problem.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

Attaching a preview pic.

A new version with a couple of heroes will be up probably tomorrow.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

I never did get around to updating this and I've been working on it this weekend a bit. I will update it soon with various bits.

Done so far.
Bunraku Puppet - immortal troop summon
Bunshichi Puppet - immortal elite troop summon
Handmaiden - female ghoul troop summon
Red Musume - female seducer recruitable commander

Still to do.
Couple of j-horror inspired national heroes
Drow-like spider maiden commander summon (with sleep causing music)
Female fox demon ninja recruit and commander
Three unique summons - Three Tails of the North, Five Tails of the South and Nine Tails of the East.


I'm updating them because they never got that much love in the first place and because they feel sort of 80% finished right now.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

FEMALE FOX DEMON NINJA!1!1!

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

Also: awesome, will be glad to see this updated.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

Cool, I always wanted to try the cat demons for myself; and lo here they are.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

I'm down with a fairly nasty cold/flu right now, but work will continue slowly. Expect this released by/on the weekend.

I just bashed out a fox ninja graphic. Looks good enough, so I won't work on it any more (a good rule of thumb, I find). This mod and LA Oceania make use of vanilla graphics as basic templates to greatly speed up my graphic making. I like making complex graphics like Rat Ogres, Ogre Butchers, Plague Priests and whatnot, but it is rather time intensive.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...xy%20foxes.png

I made three foxy variants, couldn't decide which one I like best, so you tell me, kind people of the mod forums. Actually that's the graphic for the Fox Chunin (middle ranking ninja troop), the graphic for the Fox Kunoichi (commander status) is very similar though. In fact one of those could be the troop, one the commander. Haven't decided yet.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

All three are nice. If you are deciding which to use for a troop and which for a commander however, I would go for the first as troop and the last as commander, just because of the differentiation. If I was picking just one, on art alone, I would go for number three.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

I agree exactly with Panpiper.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

I was going to release this tonight, but ran into a huge number of issues when weapon modding. A bunch of stuff I assumed would work simply didn't, then there was additional weirdness.

Anyway, I will release this tomorrow with,...

At least 1 new hero
3 new troop summons
2 new recruitable commanders
1 new recruitable troop type
Some other stuff

It isn't my best work, but the nation is certainly improved by it.

The 4 unique blood summoned fox demons will take longer, but I will do them in a future version for sure.

Re: Jomon, Broken Swords v0.65 UPDATED
 

This mod seems to be cursed or something.

Just after I finished making that post promising it "tomorrow" I lost the internet. I only just got it back today. Updated version will be up very shortly, barring horrible unforseen catastrophe.

Literally all I have to do is check for ID conflicts with other popular LA nations, then it's up.