Lord of fertility
 

It would not be overpowered, and would make sense, for the growth of any province he is in to increase slowly to 3.

I do not know if that was hard to code, but i cannot think of any reason a pretender named lord of fertility, and his description describes making things grow faster, does not get growth 3?

I have never been tempted to use him, and the change would not tempt me to abandon the Gorgon, but it should be done for thematic sense.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

That's odd. I assumed from reading his description that he *did* increase population in the province he's located in, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Bug or incorrect description?

-Max

Re: Lord of fertility
 

As I understand it Kristoffer puts in the descriptions, and Johan attaches the abilities later. That god showed up in a batch with many others. The second step might have gotten missed.

Sounds like a good catch to me.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

I'll write it up and put it in the bug thread, but not right now. If someone beats me to it, fine.

-Max

Re: Lord of fertility
 

He gives supplies, not growth. We didn't want s pretender that had the possibility to have an ability that was against his own nature (dominion that is). A lord of fertility should take growth 2 or 3. If you do there is no need to give him another growth-increasing ability. It would also feel wrong to me if a player took a force-growing lord and combine it with a death-scale.

There is no such ability in the game, but I would prefer an ability thet doubled the effect of the growth/death scale in the province which the lord of fertility is currenly occupying.

For the time being he gives 50 supplies IIRC.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

I do not see 3 growth as overpowered, since it would only affect 1 province, most likely the capital. Or make it growth 1. shrug.

Supplies and making calves grow not really the same. Change his name to lord of plenty heh.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Well, at that rate, soldiers should reduce population growth wherever they were stationed because they were eating the excess food. It's the same issue as with civilization - in the real world, armies are built out of population, not lumber or ore or even gold.

So if we wanted to address inconsistencies like the one you describe, we'd start by redoing the entire unit production and maintanence system, not by reworking the special power of a seldom used God.

That said, the Lord of Plenty could produce X people per month. Since those people would grow exponentially if you had growth (and decay exponentially if you had death), you'd want to take the Growth scale.

OTOH, a lord of plenty who spread death and disease, sparing only those in his holy capital, would be pretty cool, I think. Pilgrims flock to his great city to grovel and beg for mercy from the generous one.

Likewise, the Soul Eater (or the Colour from the Spheres) consumes 500 people per month in whatever province his holiness resides in. He takes a growth scale so that his empire can survive his vile appetites?

Re: Lord of fertility
 

I think the point is not that giving growth would be overpowered but that it would be unthematic for a god with death-scale. If you want the lord of fertility to encourage growth then you should give him the growth scale when you select your dominion

Re: Lord of fertility
 

It could be overpowering. Ive seen posts by some veterans that say that in certain game setups, taking growth becomes a no-brainer. So a pretender who also boosts growth cant b e considered lightly.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

yeah,

you take growth Gandalf, then when my armies capture your capital, i will have that many more worshipers for my pretender:)

Re: Lord of fertility
 

There are many of these in the game already, though; all the good-luck-boosting pretenders work just like that.

I think Lord of Fertility is seriously underpowered and uninteresting... if you're playing a Nature-magic pretender (as LoF of course is), you already get heaps of supplies from them, and will have access to items that provide more. "Yet more supplies" is one of the least useful pretender special abilities out there.

Might it be possible to tie his population-growth ability to the existing growth scale? The Son of Niefel has a scale-dependent power, I believe. That would seem like a conceptually perfect setup: the LoF allows you to get population growth slightly above what'd otherwise be available, but you have to be maxing it out already.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Wasnt me. I rarely take growth. Go argue the point with the guys in the irc channel if you dare

Re: Lord of fertility
 

But a pretender who increases growth in a single province wouldnt be such a big deal would it? I personally believe than in larger maps where you plan to keep recruiting commanders and making castles you have to atleast restrain from taking death, generally because unless you continue expanding quickly your economy slowly chokes and dies.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

In your capital it would, if you took gowth-3 and had a pretender that doubled that for example and then took order-3 on top. You would be stinkingly rich and money talks early on in the game, more troops, more mages, more castles etc...

Remember, your capital usually provides 50%+ of your income for the first 10 or so turns. Whenever you suggest a change you have to look at how much it can be exploited in order to retain balance.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Yes, if it "doubled that" it would. But that need not be the answer. What if it increased your growth rate (0.2-0.6% if your dominion is positive) itself by 10 or 20% +20% on 0.6% increases the total to 0.72%. The difference in the long run could be considerable, but virtually nothing in the short run- and the short run is the time when it's exploitable, when your home province is the heart and soul and entirety of your income.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Having growth in just the capital would do wonders for old capital-only mages.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

I think the math works out better if it's a fixed # of population per month rather than a %. For one thing, it becomes less like "more growth".

Re: Lord of fertility
 

The fact is right now he is a useless pretender. No one uses him. Might as well just remove him from the game, he will not be missed.

If he actually did something useful like increase growth, maybe(though it certainly still would not be me) someone would take him to help their old mages in their capital, and to increase income slowly.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

I had envisioned him as just increasing population, not providing the other growth effects. But that was just my thought.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Is this the Pretender who looks like he has a giant carrot in his hand? I think he should be given extra powers just because of the guts to face other Pretenders, armed only with a giant carrot.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Really? I would have expected you of all people, O Gandalf of the Huge Maps and Forever Long Games, to see Growth as a good investment. Do you just find it uninteresting or unthematic for the nations you play?

Any province that's had a Growth-3 dominion for 23 turns or longer is pulling in 21+% extra income, which is as good as Order-3. The advantage to Order is those initial 23 turns of higher income (of course Order and Growth is even better).

-Maximilian

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Order also reduces the chance of random events, so it allows you to take Misfortune - the net effect of which is that Order is cheaper than Growth.

But yes, you want both.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Simple response: If no munchkin players are taking Lord of Fertility, maybe he should simply cost less. That way the player can afford to take more thematic growth scale...

Re: Lord of fertility
 

makinh him free, may result in some people taking him, but does zero to address the fact that the lord of fertility(focus on name please), who the description says make more calves grow etc. gives no bonus of any kind that suggests he is the fantasy version of Viagra.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

I bet you didn't know this. The lord of fertility gives giant carrots to feed his troops. Not only are the carrots nutritous but they turn armies orange, striking fear into the hearts of the enemies.

Either that or the LOF sure could use a better looking cornucopia.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

'not bonus of any kind' is a bit harsh. He doesn't give extra fertility to humans, but more calves = more food, hence the supply bonus.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

The problem is that he only provides enough supply to equal one bag of wine. He needs to supply 10x that or something much larger than now.

And besides, taking him and growth only makes having extra supply all that more redundant.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

So you think +50 supply is extra-redundant, but suggest giving him +500 supply? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Lord of fertility
 

+500 supply is a interesting suggestion. He could have his own unique miscelaneous item, the bag of giant carrots.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Let him create growth in the province , but there needs to be a random event the likelihood of which increases the longer he is in the province:

Some local officials, alarmed at the the rise of sexually transmitted diseases, have started distributing free condoms.
The population growth in this province has ended.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Ahh, it is a cornucopia, now I understand. I still think it looks like a big carrot he is going to beat people with, but appreciate the clarification. I must say, for a low graphic game, I have seen relatively few graphics like this.

BTW, I like the one about the orange troops and the one about handing out condoms!

Re: Lord of fertility
 

IIRC, the LoF is sometimes the _only_ Titan-like Pretender with Nature magic inherent that a nation has access to.

If that is true, he does have a use.

If you want to improve him, give him an ability to give a random good event that can only be selected from the 'growth' events. Y'know, the ones that generally increase the growth scale of the province, etc. Sort of like the Lady of Fortune, but more limited.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Some nation other than Pangaea, then.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Everyone likes a good old fashioned carrot now and then. It is probably worth 50 design points to have one. So he's actually quite cheap.

Most cornucopias appear and behave in strange ways. This one is kind of wriggling I'd say. Orange is also the color of gold, when you have opened the doors of perception. Most soldiers are worth ten oranges. Blue gods are less intimidating. Lakshmi has fortune, and someone was right: the lady of fortunes should not be contraproductive in a thematically stereamlined world.

Hmm, I feel the thoughts of beer racing through my brain. I'd better stay siolent for now.

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Siolent=silently violent?

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Good to hear that beer has opened the doors of perception. Please let me know if they will now accept oranges as payment for your rent, as I foresee a excellent export business from Kenya and a happy business partnership between us.

I believe I now need to start a game with this god and role play the carrots. Shame about my new baby, this could be a really fun AAR!

Re: Lord of fertility
 

Siolent - as in the movie "Soilent Green", except when you are talking about orange instead of green, you're supposed to transpose the 'i' and the 'o'. This makes 'soilent' transform into 'siolent'. So it's not about people eating people, but people eating carrots. Kristoffer was obviously going off somewhere to eat carrots. Everyone knows how well carrots go with beer. Is that clear?