Master Enslave
 

I was trying to figure out what I need to have to be safe to teleport in a astral-9 pretender, cast master enslave, then returning. The manual doesn't specify the mechanism that gems use to reduce fatigue, and the last thing I want is for my pretender to pass out from the initial casting to sit and die if the MR rolls go badly. So, assuming I've got a choice between astral boosters and penetration boosters, what's the best way to go? How many pearls does he need to be safe?

An astral-9 mage can use 9 pearls, 8 of which go towards the Master Enslave itself. He's got one above the minimum casting paths, so he'll initially generate 800/2 fatigue, minus whatever 1 pearl can reduce. Guessing that's not safe.

Astral-10 mage can use 2 extra pearls and starts with 800/3 fatigue. This is really where I'm wondering if this is safe, can an astral-10 mage teleport in, cast Master Enslave using 10 pearls and then get out, or does he need to be Astral-11 to pull this off singlehandedly? As he'll be teleporting in by himself (presumably against a significant army) I don't know that light of the northern star or power of the spheres will be a good idea...

Also, my pretender has blood, any thoughts on Master Enslave/Reinvigoragtion/Master Enslave/Returning?

Re: Master Enslave
 

luckily there are two penetration items that are also astral boosters. light of the northern star is a good idea, as it reduces enemy resistance as well (i think)

if you position him at the back of the map, all you have to worry about is fliers. (so a few blood slaves would help his survivability there)

in my experience, after the master enslave hits, the army is in chaos, attacking itself instead of coming at your mage, so usually its no big deal that they are alone facing an entire army.

remember: even if you script vortex of returning, he might not cast it if it looks like the army you captured will wipe the floor with those left over. be prepared for that.

Re: Master Enslave
 

I did some tests some time ago.

11 Astral isn't enough. You need 12.

With 11 Astral you end up with 114 fatigue (with 0 spell casting encumbrance)

With 12 Astral you end up with 88 fatigue.

The formular is something like 800/(spell bonus + extra gems + 1)

So if you have 11 astral you can use 11 gems which gives you 3 extra gems and 3 spell bonus:
800/(3 + 3 + 1)= 114

With 12 astral you got 800/(4+4+1) = 88 which is enough for teleport out.

You can always teleport another commander in and set your enslaver something like:
Enslave/Returning/Returning/Returning/Returning (eg with 114 fatigue)

Re: Master Enslave
 

Ouch, 12 is kinda steep with a fountain pretender (no astral cap). Hmmm, maybe ring of sorcery + crystal coin and I can teleport in a second guy holding the banner of the northern star. Or maybe a heart of life + amulet of resilience which should give a +15 reinvigoration (do chest wounds effect fountains' encumbrance?). Hmmm, not much penetration boost that way though...

I'm more worried about enemy mages than fliers, particularly after I do it the first time and my clever opponents will try to script nasty surprises for me, so I'd really like to drop it on the first turn...

Re: Master Enslave
 

That brings up another question I was wondering though, if my big bad S/B pretender casts Astral Corruption, then teleports, at what point does the horror show up? I was thinking that if the Master Enslave battle goes off first THEN then horror attacks it'd be good to have not enough pearls to Master Enslave again so hopefully the horror would get a face full of high penetration soul slay instead (or even better life for a life).

Re: Master Enslave
 

If you are going to bring a second astral mage (which would be dangerous) you should script him as a Communion Slave and your pretender as a Communion Master. Halving all the fatigue you get will make your spells sure to go off correctly. You will likely kill the slave but thats what they are for, no?

Bring two slaves and you get a +1 magic bonus, and you can probably cast Vortext of Returning to save your investment in mages. Of course, the more mages you bring, the more points of failure your enemy has to attack...

Re: Master Enslave
 

i might suggest using a crone instead of a fountain, same 4 misc slots, but also a helmet and a couple of hands. allows for rune smasher, crystal shield, starshine skullcap, and whatever combination of miscs you enjoy.

a bit fragile outside of her dominion, so maybe a few wishes for power before sending her out.

Re: Master Enslave
 

Here's how you do it.

Take 32 Grand Thaumaturgs - equip them with starshine skullcaps if need be. Make sure they come earlier in the batting order than your God.

Have each of them cast communion slave.

Now have the God cast Master Enslave TWICE, and then Ritual of Returning.

Personally, I like to also send in an S5 leader with a number of followers - and instead of hopping home with a RoR, I wipe out the enemy army and then WIN THE BATTLE. Now that's fun.

Re: Master Enslave
 

How does one manipulate the turn order in battle? This is a trick I have never learned.

Re: Master Enslave
 

You can't. Everyone goes in the order they are listed. So, if the unit is listed before your God in the army setup screen, it will go first.

Re: Master Enslave
 

Ah, this is good information I did not know. So you can know ahead of time what order stuff is going to go off, you just can't modify it (other than by changing who goes to the fight).

Re: Master Enslave
 

i tried it out with pythium - a dormant divine king (or whatever, the guy being carried) with 10 astral 3 death and good scales.

the army ended up being 16 communicants, weilding mostly drain life banners, at least one with banner of the northern star and one with a storm staff. an army of emerald warriors to draw attention. also some empty commanders to pick up the troops.

the pretender had 5 astral boosting items (the wizard rings and sorcery rings are also penetration items) and a crystal matrix.

one cast of master enslave resulted in 1 fatigue for the pretender and 3 or so for the communicants.

needless to say the fights were short, chaotic, and devastating. mind you this doesn't work for master enslave strike team, but as a roaming army, it was insane.

Re: Master Enslave
 

Life drain banners is a nice touch. Maybe I'll try it out.

-Max

Re: Master Enslave
 

i might try again with a crone, since she can hold a rune smasher and crystal shield.

Re: Master Enslave
 

Does everyone always go in the order listed? I thought there was a 50/50 chance of that order or its reverse? Or maybe that's just for globals?

Re: Master Enslave
 

This is news to me too. I assumed they all casted everything in a random order.

Re: Master Enslave
 

Another thing that might be worth trying: script <Soul Drain, Master Enslave, Master Enslave, Master Enslave> with a high-level astral mage WITHOUT an army of communicants. The idea being that Soul Drain on a large army can leech you back fatigue in large amounts, and as soon as you drop below 100 fatigue, Master Enslave goes off again. Combine this with Teleport and Ritual of Returning.

-Max

Re: Master Enslave
 

Of course, by the time you can field your roaming master enslave army, you're likely to get blasted by artillery spells (Flames From the Sky, Leprosy, etc.).

Re: Master Enslave
 

That's bizzare. 800 fatigue, split by 17 is 47... turned into *one* by having extra skill? Should need like astral 55 or something...

Did you burn a crapload of extra gems when casting? Perhaps there's an unknown mechanic with that.

Re: Master Enslave
 

well he used something like 14 gems with the cast as well.

and having extra skill starts to halve the costs of spells. (in combat with northern star up he had astral 16 - base 10 + northern star + 5 items -- i dunno if he spent enough gems to get his skill up to 18, but if he did i think the cost goes from 800 to 400)

trying with the crone (base 10 + 4 items + crystal shield + northern star = 16 astral) and 11 communicants, 14 gems used: each communicant got 12 fatigue, crone got 1 for a total of 133. (clearly the mechanics don't allow her to use a gem for the astral gained from the shield and the banner.)

Re: Master Enslave
 

That's really interesting. It looks like "bonus" levels from gems discount the base cost of the spell (800/6=133, but it should be 800/7--no idea what's going on there), and then it gets split up between the mages in the communion. But then the communicants' 12 fatigue should be multiplied by 4 because they're at S5, and encumbrance should be on top of that. This just isn't matching up at all with the calculations. You're on 3.06? Windows or Linux? (Although I can't imagine that would make a difference.)

-Max

Re: Master Enslave
 

windows, 3.06

Re: Master Enslave
 

Hypothesis: because communicants aren't actually mages, Communion Slave for them works differently. I'll try to test this later.

-Max