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Xietor April 20th, 2007 01:28 PM

OT: good fantasy books
 
I wanted to share a few series that I found pretty good that maybe are off the beaten path a bit. So I will avoid the usual and obvious references to Wheel of Time, Tolkien, Feist etc.


1. "When True Night Falls" Trilogy. C.S. Friedman. Technically science fiction, but it is fantasy at heart. Magic and swords. It has a slow start, but has to lay the background. But it picks up fast, and is top notch fantasy.

2. "The Last Apprentice".Joe Delaney. 2 books so far more to come. A little bit spooky. Good read.

3. Magic's Pawn series by mercedes lackey. This is a good trilogy, but it is not for the homophobic. Main character is gay. But good sword and sorcery.

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 01:44 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Mercedes Lackey good? First time I ever hear anyone say that.

I'd recommend:

A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin
-Low fantasy, lots of political plotting, warring noble houses. Very bloody and ruthless, the good guys are not guaranteed to win or to survive.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson
-High fantasy, demigods and ancient races, sorcerers battling demons, armies incinerated by magic. History of the world reaching back hundreds of thousands of years. Reminds me of Dominions actually.

Prince of Nothing by Scott Bakker.
-Weird fantasy, the Dark Lord was killed centuries ago and people no longer believe he really ever existed. His servants still exist though, and they are led by sex-maniac aliens. Very dark and disturbing, but excellent.

Ubik April 20th, 2007 01:56 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Best fantasy story I ever read is "A song of Ice and Fire" by G.R.R. Martin. Start by reading book 1 "A Game of Thrones" and stop at "A Feast for Crows" waiting for the author to continue the story...

Xietor April 20th, 2007 02:03 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
The g martin books are good early, but his last book, a Feast for crows, was pretty bad. He ran out of steam.


Xietor April 20th, 2007 02:05 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Mercedes Lackey has written many series, most of them not so good. This one particular series actually won a few awards and was good.

Evilhomer April 20th, 2007 02:12 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Thats mainly cause he split a huge book up in two parts, and had most of the boring characters in book 1 (last one published).

My vote would go for a "song of ice and fire" for number 1. Other books i have really enjoyed when young would probably be Robert Jordan (first 5 books are good, then he somehow lost himself in the plot), Tolkien (a classic) and Le Guin (earthsea).

jutetrea April 20th, 2007 02:20 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
ditto on RR Martin

The Malazan series was surprisingly good, a bit similar to the black company books in that they take a bit to get familiar with the characters... but it works.

Brust's assassin books are good as well

Salamander8 April 20th, 2007 02:25 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I love the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. Especially Guards, Guards!; Mort; Pyramids: and: Moving Pictures. The Monty Python humor combined with the swords and sorcery (as well as sourcery http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) make for some excellent reading.

PrinzMegaherz April 20th, 2007 02:26 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Song of Ice and fire is great, but I am not a fan of such long stories.
I would prefer:

The Night Watch from Sergej Lukyanenko

It's a perfect blend of fantasy (magic, vampires usw.) brought into our time. It's from a russian author and creates some kind of magic cold war:

In the world of the night watch, there are humans and others. Others are former humans that learned to use magic in one way or the other. However, becoming an other means you have to choose whether to serve the light or the darkness. After both sides nearly annihilated each other, a truce was settled limiting the amoung of good and evil both sides are allowed to do. Both sides have police force that makes sure the other side does not cheat - the night- and daywatch. It's a story about a cold war between those two factions and a detective story about Anton, a young nightwatch member.

Evilhomer April 20th, 2007 02:26 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
It would seem like GRRMs books are the dominion players favourite choice.

Xietor April 20th, 2007 02:32 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
That is because they love diplomacy and treachery!

Novi April 20th, 2007 02:41 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Quote:

Teraswaerto said:
The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson
-High fantasy, demigods and ancient races, sorcerers battling demons, armies incinerated by magic. History of the world reaching back hundreds of thousands of years. Reminds me of Dominions actually.

Well, my experience with this book wasn't as thrilling as it was supposed to be according to the countless fans... Yes, it is epical in basically every aspect but exactly that makes it tedious and difficult to read. Too many facts, too little explanations. Took me a TONNE of devotion and time to read.

The very best thing I've read so far is A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. LeGuin. It might be a pain in the neck for those who yearn for glorious battles and intricate plots but it makes up for that with its depth. Recommended reading. =)

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 02:50 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Yeah, it's true that the Malazan Book of the Fallen is not the easiest read. It's a good idea to re-read a few times to really get into it and understand what's going on. I've started the series from the first book every time a new part has come out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I like the Earthsea series, read it a dozen times I think.

Edi April 20th, 2007 02:55 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I actually like Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series of books for the most part and consider them good. They have their own issues, but I found them entertaining and would not mind reading the lot of them again.

As for George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, I liked it at first, but it's almost all downhill. It has its good portions, but more bad than good in my opinion. I do not like the gratuitous feasting on rape and torture that is a fairly prevalent trend throughout the series. Martin has a lot of interesting characters, but he simply throws them away for no discernible reason when he runs out of ideas for them and generally they are not replaced or the subplots involving them tied up at all. He does have some interesting characters that actually grew out of some fairly two-dimensional cardboard cutouts into "real" characters. Jaime Lannister for one, in Storm of Swords, the Hound and Tyrion Lannister earlier.


Edis's list of good fantasy
  • J.V.Jones: Barbed Coil, Book of Words trilogy (Baker's Boy, A Man Betrayed, MAster and Fool), Sword of Shadows trilogy (A Cavern of Black Ice, A Fortress of Grey Ice, A Sword from Red Ice (Nov. 2007)). Contemporary fantasy does NOT get any better than the Sword of Shadows trilogy. That one trounces anything and everything else on the market that I've ever read.
  • Janny Wurts: To Ride Hell's Chasm, Wars of Light and Shadow (currently at 7 volumes, more to come at some point), Cycle of Fire trilogy, Master of Whitestorm. If J.V. Jones's SoS trilogy wasn't so bloody good, Wurts would be undisputed queen of fantasy writing.
  • C.S. Friedman: Coldfire trilogy (Black Sun Rising, When True Night Falls, Crown of Shadows), see above.
  • Marcus Herniman: Arrandin trilogy. Has its problems, but I really liked this one. The final book was in many ways the weakest of them all, but the first one (Siege of Arrandin) completely drew me in.
  • R. Scott Bakker: Prince of Nothing, already mentioned, totally kickass.
  • Raymond E. Feist: The Riftwar saga (the original four volumes starting with Magician), and its followup books up until the end of the Serpentwar saga, plus the Empire trilogy cowritten with Janny Wurts
  • Deborah Chester The Sword, The Ring, The Chalice trilogy and its followup books and the War of Shadows trilogy are all good.
  • Glen Cook: Black Company. 'Nuff said.
  • R.E. Howard: The Conan Chronicles. What, you thought I would leave HIS name out of the list?
  • Ursula Le Guin: The Earthsea books are great.
  • Tolkien If Howard and Le Guin get mentioned, then he does too.
  • Roger Zelazny: The Chronicles of Amber
  • Patricia A McKillip: The The Riddle-master's Tale trilogy. A very good series, though a bit slow to start. It has the novelty of having very unusual villains and a suitably mysterious plot.
That should do for starters.

Xietor April 20th, 2007 03:04 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Edi,

on the JV Jones series, are they stand alone, or should you read them in a particular order? In short, can you just start with the SOS trilogy?

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 03:05 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I think you misjudge Martin, Edi.

The world he writes about is violent, and the fact he does not gloss over it is one of the things that make him a great writer. The fact that being a main character is not a guarantee if surviving does not mean he's "run out of ideas", just that for a while he told the story from the point of view of someone who doesn't live to see its end.

Also, I don't see how you can say Martin has too much rape and torture and then list Prince of Nothing as "good fantasy".

Nick_K April 20th, 2007 03:08 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
My favourite fantasy novels are probably the Lyonesse books by Jack Vance. They're available in two volumes in the 'fantasy masterworks' series.

Their main competition is Fritz Leiber's books about Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. They're called something like 'The chronicles of Lankhmar' in the fantasy masterworks series.

I was also very impressed with some others mentioned here - the chronicles of amber and Earthsea for instance.

There's a few mentioned here that I didn't like very much, but I won't go into that - people have different tastes and I don't want to upset anyone by criticising their favourite!


(edit)
Oh, I forgot the "chronicles of an age of darkness" series by Hugh Cook. He's been criticised before so evidently they're not to everyone's taste, but I found them to be enjoyable light-hearted reads.

Deimos_tw April 20th, 2007 03:13 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Day/The Night Watch from Sergej Lukyanenko

/seconds that, and if you're too impatient for books the movie's good too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

K.J. Parker's 'Fencer' Trilogy was fun.

Everything Eddings

Read more Tolkien

I found J.V. Jones interminably boring, personally - almost as bad as the wheel of time.

Jazzepi April 20th, 2007 03:20 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Amber

I absolutely loved The Chronicles of Amber. If you want a shorter read that's a mix of sci-fi and fantasy try out Lord of Light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_Light

Jazzepi

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 03:21 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Not mentioned so far:

Michael Moorcock, and his The Eternal Champion body of work. Elric of Melniboné is probably the best known. Also Cormyr, Hawkmoon, Erekosë and many others.

Robert E. Howard, and the original Conan short stories. Classic sword and sorcery everyone should read.

Stephen King, and the Dark Tower. A strange postmodern metafiction that ties together all his novels. Sadly, I felt the series lost its focus towards the end.

BandarLover April 20th, 2007 03:23 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Very interesting topic. I know of some of the writers mentioned but some I've not heard of. I pretty much grew up on Tolkien, so I compare everyone else to his works, often unfairly I admit.

I also like Terry Goodkind. His Sword of Truth series does have an annoying habit of enormous plot build up, and then wrapping everything up in the final chapter. But the world he's created is very interesting.

I also enjoy Cecilia Dart-Thornton. I've only read two books, and honestly don't know if she has more but they were both very good.

And even though he didn't write fantasy per se, Richard Adams is one of my favorite authors as well. Shardik is probably the closest to fantasy, though Watership Down does have a lot of rabbit mythology in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So there's my two cents worth.

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 03:25 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Quote:

BandarLover said:
And even though he didn't write fantasy per se, Richard Adams is one of my favorite authors as well. Shardik is probably the closest to fantasy, though Watership Down does have a lot of rabbit mythology in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Adams is great. Maia, the prequel to Shardik, is even more fantasy I think.

Edi April 20th, 2007 03:47 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Quote:

Teraswaerto said:
I think you misjudge Martin, Edi.

The world he writes about is violent, and the fact he does not gloss over it is one of the things that make him a great writer. The fact that being a main character is not a guarantee if surviving does not mean he's "run out of ideas", just that for a while he told the story from the point of view of someone who doesn't live to see its end.

Also, I don't see how you can say Martin has too much rape and torture and then list Prince of Nothing as "good fantasy".

The difference is the way they go about it. I know there's quite a bit of sex and also rape in Prince of Nothing, but Bakker hardly dwells on it the same way it jumps out from Martin's books. Case in point, there's the scene from SoIaF where Daenerys is married off to the barbarian and what follows reads like something from a pedophile's wet dream. Then there are some scenes where it is, completely out of the blue, brought up how the Lannisters' soldiers have tied women to stocks and are raping them etc ad nauseam, in places where it does not serve the plot at all.

In Prince of Nothing, I have a hard time remembering similar occurrences completely out of the blue. Black Company also has its share of mentions of what the mercenaries do to captured women, but that's just it, mere mentions without going into the gory details. Martin's writing in those instances reminds me far too much of Terry Goodkind's bull****.

I do understand that opinions may vary and that some people like Martin's work even in those instances that I deplore, and that is their right. It's also my right to express my own opinion on the subject, and at least I can enumerate sound reasons for those opinions of mine other than just some nebulous gut feelings.


Xietor, of J.V. Jones's books, Barbed Coil is standalone. Book of Words and Sword of Shadows can be read independently of each other, but I would recommend reading Book of Words before Sword of Shadows for reasons that will become VERY clear at the end of A Cavern of Black Ice. It is not necessary, but it will greatly enhance your understanding of the backstory and some other things.

Deimos, which books by Jones did you read? Granted that Book of Words is like drying to drink tar in some places, but once you get through those patches, it's good. The Sword of shadows trilogy is an order of magnitude better and much faster-paced, which just shows how much she has developed as a writer.

Edi April 20th, 2007 03:54 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series was tolerable for the first two books. Three and four were just tedious and everything after that is just thinly veiled preaching of his (neoconservative libertarian) political views interspersed with liberal sprinklings of masturbatory rape fantasies that should turn the stomach of most decent people.

It had good ideas to begin with and up to and including the end of the fourth book and even the Chimes in the fifth, but those good ideas are not nearly enough to counter all the screwed up ****e in his works.

Xietor April 20th, 2007 04:02 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I agree with Edi somewhat. The early Martin books are excellent, despite what i think is overkill on feeding a man's
prurient interest. To me, there were two major drawbacks in the books, and the unnecessary and somewhat offensive aggressive feeding of the prurient interest is somewhat degrading to the intellect of the reader.

Second, martin himself admitted that killing off too many main characters was what stumped him in continuing the series.

He DID kill off too many of his major story lines, by his own admission, and the creation of new ones, like that stupid female knight, was a poor substitute for some of more interesting characters he killed off.

To add insult to injury, when he finally(years later and after burning the 1st effort) managed to publish another book in the series, it does not include anything about the 2 most interesting characters left alive, Jon Snow and his crippled little brother.

I would strongly advise against buying A Feast for Crows, but i do recommend the earlier books. His earlier books get an 8/10 but could have been even higher had he not dwelled on the issues raised by edi, which assumes the average fantasy reader is a 15 year old boy wanting masturbation material. The killing off of main characters is fine to a degree, but not if leaves the storyline bereft of meaning.

And it is not open to debate that he killed off too many main characters, martin admits that mistake himself.

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 04:08 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
SPOILERS ABOUT A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE!



Edi,
What happens on the wedding night between Khal Drogo and Daenyrys is important to the story. Though Daenyrys is forced to marry him, she comes to love him and accepts her part as Drogo's wife. Everything that follows is built on that.

Also, she is not a preteen, so your pedophile remark is not accurate. Modern laws about age of consent are just that, modern.

Likewise, descriptions of brutality done by soldiers of the warring Houses are important. Writing about war and passing by the ugly parts is very common, and as I said before, the fact that Martin doesn't do so speaks in his favor.

I can understand that one can be repulsed by such things, but that is quite a separate issue from whether or not the books are good. Not that I'm denying your right to an opinion, but like you, I like to explain my point of view. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



SPOILER END

Actuarian April 20th, 2007 04:14 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Here some books that haven't been mentioned yet.

Robin Hobb is a wonderful author. All of her book are really good, but her Assassin Trilogy is a must read.

Kate Elliott - Crown of Stars series (this definately has a Dominions feel to it)

Stephen R. Donaldson - Thomas Covenant/Illearth series

Raymond E Feist - The Riftwar Saga

Marion Zimmer Bradley - The Mists of Avalon
Guy Gavrial Kay - Fionavar Tapestry trilogy

John Varley - Gaea Trilogy (Wizard, Titan, Demon) - this is clothed as science fiction, but it's really fantasy.

Ursula Le Guin - The Earthsea Trilogy

crumply April 20th, 2007 04:18 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Jack Vance--The Dying Earth

Actuarian April 20th, 2007 04:23 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Teraswaerto, I agree with your points regarding Martin, but I wouldn't want any of my kids reading him. You should try Robin Hobb if you haven't already. She and Martin both write darkly, and convey a similar feeling of desperation and a sense of fatalism.

Deimos_tw April 20th, 2007 04:29 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I was unfair to robert jordan in that post, the first few were immersive, excellent stuff, i mean, years on and i still remember lots of it, I guess the trouble was he wrote so much pedantic tripe inbetween the bits of interest as the series progressed it became a slog.

J.V. Jones..bakers boy to master and fool, it wasn't a scratch on the pawn of prophecy et al imo, but each to their own.

Not sure Brian Lumley could be defined Fantasy in the strict sense, but the necroscope books were entertaining nonetheless.

I hit reply and some guy steals most of the meat, eh - Feist and Donaldson were awesome, yay.. Donaldson though, like Jordan seemed to write for chapters on end at a time with no objective other than to get words on the page. Feist is like Eddings, but with more than half a plot:)

C.S. Lewis - ja, well, not read him since I was a kiddle, but then they were wonderful, avoided going back to them incase they aren't as good as I remember - why spoil a good memory eh ;-)

A few others that are struggling to raise their heads out of this foggy swamp of a mind.

Actuarian April 20th, 2007 04:30 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Xeitor, I heard that the reason that Jon Snow and the cripple aren't in the latest book is that he made the book way too long and had to divide it into two books. Snow should feature in the next book.

Cor April 20th, 2007 04:32 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Most everything by HP Lovecraft

the problem, he is a bleeding racist. I wish someone would go back and modernize his work, take out all those refrences to eugenics.

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 04:44 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Quote:

Actuarian said:
You should try Robin Hobb if you haven't already. She and Martin both write darkly, and convey a similar feeling of desperation and a sense of fatalism.

I've read Hobb's Farseer trilogy once, but it's been a while. I hear Liveship Traders and Tawny Man are good too, haven't read them yet. They take place in the same world, Liveship Traders being only peripherally related to Farseer while Tawny Man continues Fitz's story 15 years after the end of Assassin's Quest.

Endoperez April 20th, 2007 04:48 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Naomi Novik has written a very interesting series about alternative history. Starting from His Majesty's Dragon, or Temeraire on the other side of the Atlantean empire. Napoleonic wars, with infantry, navy and dragons acting as huge air-ships. Dragons wearing harnesses from which the gunmen and the bellmen and the bombers and the cargo hang, dragon-to-dragon boardings, etc.

Here's an excerpt.

Johanna Sinisalo has written some unbelievably good books. Her novel 'Ennen päivänlaskua ei voi' (translated as 'Not Before Sundown', or 'Troll - a love story' in US) won several Finnish and international prizes.

W. Somerset Haugham's book "The Magician" isn't strictly fantasy, but in parts it's very close. I read it from Project Gutenberg website expecting something very different, but found myself enjoying it immensely. The book has a christian theme, but at least for me it was more about one man's faith than the God he believed in.

Edi April 20th, 2007 05:00 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Quote:

Teraswaerto said:
SPOILERS ABOUT A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE!



Also, she is not a preteen, so your pedophile remark is not accurate. Modern laws about age of consent are just that, modern.

IIRC, she was 13, and I would think you'd agree that there's a big difference between 13 and 15, which is closer to what the marriageable age was historically. It still doesn't wash, not given some conversations I've had with people who have actually worked with kids and other people traumatized by abuse (sexual or otherwise). Simply put, the description is unrealistic and off and lingers far too much.

Quote:

Teraswaerto said:
Likewise, descriptions of brutality done by soldiers of the warring Houses are important. Writing about war and passing by the ugly parts is very common, and as I said before, the fact that Martin doesn't do so speaks in his favor.

It would, if it were not done in a way that wallows in it and makes it gratuitous and extraneous. Black Company has similar events, so does Prince of Nothing, Wars of Light and Shadow, Book of Words, Sword of Shadows and a lot of other books, but the point is that they do not do engage in such feasting on the subject. They don't especially shy away from it, but neither do they zoom-focus in on it.

Martin's writing has more in common with Goodkind's in this respect than any of those others, which is where it becomes such a turn-off, especially since the plot does not quite carry the day as far as it should.

Quote:

Teraswaerto said:
I can understand that one can be repulsed by such things, but that is quite a separate issue from whether or not the books are good. Not that I'm denying your right to an opinion, but like you, I like to explain my point of view. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Yeah, I see your point of view, even understand it, but I do not agree with it. I would have, once upon a time when I was younger and much less experienced in many things, but not anymore. Our frames of reference are too different.

HoneyBadger April 20th, 2007 05:04 PM

The best fantasy of the last and current century
 
I'm going to keep adding to this and editing it where I feel it's appropriate, since there's a lot missing from the list
(I'm getting old, and my memory's starting to go).

Modern Fantasy:

"The Eye in the Stone"-by Alan L. Wold. This is really a superlative
novel. The author, the publisher, and the reading public all made
mistakes by not giving this book a lot more support. It's 1980s
modern, hard magic with lots of action

"Little, Big" by John Crowley. Absolutely THE fantasy novel of the
1970s-1990. The Best. 'Nuff said.

Neverwhere. The best fantasy novel that I'd recommend for pretty
much anyone and everyone to read. Good for kids, good for adults,
good for grandparents, good for brits and yankees, republicans and
democrats, moslems and jews. If you haven't read it, you probably
should. Probably the best of the 1990s-plus, in terms of being a
successor to Little, Big.

Sandman is supposed to be his best work, but I haven't managed to get the collection yet-it's also graphical, which isn't something I'm generally including here, because it's a little bit more difficult defining, and you start to get into movies. Otherwise, I'd list the Dark Crystal and-coincidentally, the Jim Henson Company and Brian Froud.

American Gods-also by Neil Gaiman. I actually found it a bit dry
after Neverwhere, but still, a very worthy read-and once you've read
Neverwhere, you MUST read American Gods-otherwise, you won't have a
grasp on Neil Gaiman's range as an author-plus, I command you to!

Oldschool Fantasy: This is the hardcore stuff that's every bit as relevant, and in the end, generally better written and better fantasy than, the Lord of the Rings.

Dying Earth series by Jack Vance. Really excellent techno-fantasy with lots of neat magical and technological weirdness.

The Lankhmar books by Fritz Leiber. If you haven't read them, you should. Amazing, weird, at times philosophical, and funny!

Elric Saga by Michael Moorcock, the Anti-Tolkien.
Another incredible read. Very weird, very intense at times.

Conan. Read the originals by Robert E Howard. They're a lot better than the movies and Conan's *very* different from Gubernator Schwartzenegger.

Gormenghast-all Titus books by Mervyn Peake: I've just started
reading this, so normally I wouldn't recommend it, but the author
is/was an appealing personality, and the book itself flies in the
face of all that bad fantasy stands for-plus, it feels a bit like
Kingdom Hospital.


Epic Fantasy:

Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn; and the Song of Ice and Fire-just the first book, though, the rest are more and more disappointing-if you
absolutely MUST read about dragons and elves, and get your epic on,
these two are actually worth the time of day.

"The Dark Tower" By Stephen King. Stephen King gets a bad
rap-mostly deserved-of having churned out book after book in order
to get paid. He's still a really good author, and the Dark Tower
series is his Opus. Besides, who doesn't like the idea of a fantasy
version of The Good the Bad and the Ugly?

"Magician" by Raymond E. Feist
More dragons and elves, but I decided to include Feist, because Magician really is quite a good book (it was divided into Apprentice and Master for publishing reasons), even though I don't really care for most of the later books after Darkness at Sethanon, the exception being the Empire books he did with Janny Wurtz. Atleast for a little while, he was really innovative and exciting as an author, which isn't easy to do in such a tired genre.

Other:

"The Black Company" The first two books, by Glen Cook-the best
military fantasy currently extant. I'm only recommending the first
books because I've only read the first two, and I've heard
discouraging things about the rest of the series, but the first one's groovy, the second one's gravy. Cook does with fantasy exactly
what I want done with fantasy in a military fantasy novel-apparently, later
on he screws up the formula, but oh well.

"Weaveworld" By Clive Barker-I haven't read this one either, all the
way through, but I like what I've read, and I've heard very good
things, and it's written by Clive Barker-besides, if I had read all
the best fantasy, already, I'd be pretty depressed.

"Ambergris" all works, By Jeff Vandemeer. Really great quirky
fantasy/horror set in a third world and written by a teacher (and
probably a very good one) of creative fiction. Again, it's written
the way I'd want it to be written.

Terry Pratchet: The single best comic fantasy author of the 21st century, and one of the very best fantasy authors of the 20th and 21st. I recommend pretty much anything and everything he writes.

BandarLover April 20th, 2007 05:08 PM

Re: The best fantasy of the last and current centu
 
Waaahhh! How could I forget Gaiman?! I'm about to start Stardust.

And now thanks to this thread, I'll be starting some other new books later. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edi April 20th, 2007 05:13 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I'm going to second the people who said Guy Gavriel Kay writes good stuff. I've read Tigana and Sailing to Sarantium and they were great.

Likewise with Cecilia Dart-Thornton, the Biterbynde series was good, even if it took me a fairly long time to read it.

Sarah Ash's Tears of Artamon (Lord of Snow and Shadows, Prisoner of the Iron Tower, Children of the Serpent Gate) is great, even though I largely detest books where the premise seems too reminiscent of historical Europe with some fantasy flavorings on top. For this reason I almost hurled Karen Elliot's first book into a wall, since I'd just read two or three series with too many similarities, but I'll have to get back to it.

One writer that I have not yet seen mentioned here is David Farland and his Runelords series. Elizabeth Haydon's Rhapsody series is also a good one, even though some elements of it are annoying. Both it and Farland's Runelords certainly can't be blamed for lack of originality either.

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 05:15 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Edi,
I don't remember the descriptions as "feasting", not any more than in Prince of Nothing certainly, and I found Bakker's alien flesh-lovers and their rape-driven creations far more disturbing than anything in A Song of Ice and Fire.

Teraswaerto April 20th, 2007 05:20 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Gaiman is great. His main work is The Sandman, which was published as a comic book between 1988 and 1996. It's been collected into 10 albums which are still in print I think.

Edi April 20th, 2007 05:21 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I'm going to put a word of warning (based on my personal opinion, so take with appropriate amount of salt) about Memory, Sorrow and Thorn:

It is, without doubt, the most terminally boring series of fantasy I've ever read. Your mileage may vary, but if you are bored halfway through the first book and finding your attention wandering, do yourself a favor and leave it at that. It is NOT going to change in style or pace of events for the rest of the series and you will not get those hours back. I wish I could.

If, on the other hand, you find yourself immersed and blown away, that is quite fine and I hope you enjoy the books fully. I also hope that whatever it is you have isn't contagious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Edi April 20th, 2007 05:24 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Quote:

Teraswaerto said:
Edi,
I don't remember the descriptions as "feasting", not any more than in Prince of Nothing certainly, and I found Bakker's alien flesh-lovers and their rape-driven creations far more disturbing than anything in A Song of Ice and Fire.

I will amend my earlier posts: With the exception of THOSE creatures, Prince of Nothing is less offensive in the regard I spoke of earlier. The No-God's creatures, yes, they were very, very disturbing indeed.

As for the word "feasting", well, wallowing is better, but the Finnish translation we're looking for is "hekumoida", though it would be impolite toward the others here to talk all in Finnish.

Xietor April 20th, 2007 05:38 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
As my 1st post alluded, Feist, Jordan, and Tolkien were not included on my list because they are so well known, i thought it redundant.

But, of course, Feist is excellent, Jordan's 1st few books were 10/10, then became dribble, and Tolkien is what other Fantasy novels are measured against.

HoneyBadger April 20th, 2007 05:50 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I didn't find Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn to be nearly as boring as the Wheel of Time, the Lord of the Rings, Terry Goodkind's stuff (I didn't make it all the way through the first book, and I don't think I'll bother going back) and the crowning achievement of Accountants in Chainmail/Fantasy Economics 101/The Great Gatsby with Swords that was Feist's Merchant Prince.

M,S, and T was very lengthy and densely written, but not as I recall in a bad way.

MaxWilson April 20th, 2007 06:31 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Steven Erikson--I really like the Malazan Book of the Fallen, although I hate the first book in the series (many people do). Erikson's writing vastly improved in the ten-year gap between writing Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates. If anyone is interested, I'd recommend starting with Memories of Ice, especially because of the Seguleh. A nation of Nietzsche supermen sends a punitive army of THREE MEN to punish a neigboring Evil Empire for bothering them. Now that's style! (They probably would have gotten obliterated if they hadn't acquired allies, an ancient sorceress and a T'lan Imass, but they would have given it a good try.)

I enjoyed Martin for a couple of books, but eventually the grinding unpleasantness of the world got through to me and I said the Eight Deadly Words: "I don't care what happens to these people." I haven't gone back. Martin admitted in an interview that, of the characters in SoIaF, he identified most closely with Tyrion because of his sexual obsessions, which made a disturbing amount of sense given the gratuitousness of some of the material. The thing that got me interested in Martin in the first place was someone's comment that Martin examines "real evil," which is to say not some evil overlord in a tower who wants to Take Over The World, but rather the plausible kinds of evil that actually occur. It's true, and he delivered on that promise. I guess I just got turned off by, among other things, the fact that there aren't enough GOOD people in the stories to counterbalance the evils. Or if there are, they get far too little screen time. YMMV.

I second the recommendations for Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber, and Brust's Vlad Taltos books. I started with /Issola/, of which you can read the first chapter here: http://www.tor-forge.com/Excerpt.asp...589177#Excerpt

-Max

Blofeld April 20th, 2007 07:18 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
China Mieville is my favourite amongst the contemporary writers. His Bas-Lag series is certaintly not run-of-the-mill Tolkienesque cliche, it's more in weird fiction vein, the books bristle with original ideas, races/cultures and takes on magic and ot technology.
The first book, 'Perdido Street Station' suffers a bit towards the end in plot and coherence departments, but he gets better in later books, 'The Scar' and 'Iron Council'

Xietor April 20th, 2007 07:26 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
I am ordering the 1st 3 black company books, and the 1st trilogy of jv jones by edi.

If they suck, you will have to answer to Pangaea in a small map blitz duel!

quantum_mechani April 20th, 2007 07:35 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
Something that has not been mentioned that I've seen: The Waterborn by Greg Keyes. A great fantasy book that also has something of dominionsesque flavor. I've even thought about making a map/mod based on it, might look something like a small map duel between Pangaea with a lord of the wild and T'ien Ch'i with an oracle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

There is also a sequal to it called Blackgod that is about as good.

WraithLord April 20th, 2007 07:52 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
This is a great thread that holds for me the promise of reading many new marvelous books, so thanks all for your recommendations here.

I would like to add some names not mentioned here,
1. Forgotten realms books. Some may take them as childish or shallow, but to my taste they have a nice "action" feel to them, they make for a nice casual reading. Noteworthy series are: The dark elf trilogy; Legacy of the drow; Icewind Dale trilogy; The cleric quintet; The paths of darkness; The Avatar series; Return of the Archwizards; War of the spider queen;

2. Robert Jordan's wheel of time series. Mentioned before. I'd just like to say that IMO the books are good so long as you fast forward reading all the detailed descriptions of every minute thing that's going on.

3. Roger Zealazny, not only Amber, also his pseudo mythology books are great.

4. Dan Simmons. Hyperion series is top notch sci-fi. Carrion comfort and song of Kali are great dunno exactly how to classify them.

5. Terry Goodkind, Wizard's first rule, only first three books are good, the rest are abysmal.

6. G. Martin, Already mentioned. Just like to say that I loved his ice and fire series.

djo April 20th, 2007 08:00 PM

Re: OT: good fantasy books
 
To start with, I'll second the votes for Roger Zelazny, China Mieville, Patricia McKillip, Neil Gaiman, and John Crowley. They are all well above the pale, extraordinary writers. You can't go wrong with almost anything they've ever written.

The Malazan books could be Erikson's ticket into their company, if he keeps up the quality for the full series. Ditto Brust and his Vlad series.

Here are some choices from a bit off the traditional epic fantasy track:

Ash: A Secret History, by Mary Gentle--looks like, feels like, but isn't quite historical fantasy; it's a tricky book, but keep with it. This woman knows her medieval warfare! Ash is a female mercenary captain in the middle ages, fighting against a Carthage that never fell. Depending on what edition you get, it is sometimes broken up into multiple volumes.

Declare or Last Call, by Tim Powers--fantasy set in the 20th century, with conspiracies, deep magic, and convoluted connections through myth and history. Declare is a Cold War spy novel, the East and West rushing to secure a magical power on Mt. Ararat. Last Call is a Las Vegas novel about, among other things, the dangers of playing poker with a Tarot deck.

The Dragon Waiting, by John Ford--the War of the Roses, but with magic; Ford is another extraordinary writer who unfortunately didn't produce at a high rate.

The Death of the Necromancer or The Element of Fire, by Martha Wells--two well-written, character-oriented, not-epic, stand-alone fantasies, set in a country looking a lot like France. The latter is Renaissance-ish, the former is set later, in a time where magic co-exists with trains, guns, and gaslights.


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