My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

is this a bug?

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Need more details of what happened.

In general, no, immortality just means your body is immediately recreated without loss of magic paths back to your capital if your body is slain in your own dominion, and that you eventually heal afflictions. It doesn't mean your body can't die from a disease, or an ax, or anything else...

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

It's a bug that's been around for a long time. If any immortal unit is killed by a disease, then that unit is permanently gone, no matter what the local dominion is.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Yeah, I guess that would make sense since they would still be diseased and not healing, so they'd be resurrected with 0 hp.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I don't think you can call that a bug. Seems like WAD.

I don't agree with it, but there you go.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Sounds like a bug to me. If a phoenix dies from a disease, how is that any different than dying from an axe to the face? Their bodies are reborn.

Diseased is an affliction anyways, and immortal units are suppose to heal afflictions.

Jazzepi

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I think it's pretty silly that pretenders keep afflictions even beyond death anyways... but that's just me.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I agree, easpicaly with immortal units, since with immortal units their body is reforming, liches, they get a new body, not a build of their old one, keeping aflictions is silly, however calling a god back, thats a little different, I think they should keep it through that.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

First that I heard of it. Are the mechanics different from Dom2? In Dom2, if a diseased immortal unit died, it came back the next turn and promptly died again and again until the disease affliction disappeared on respawning.

Does it work the same or has disease been made a non-triggering cause of death? If it's changed, it needs to be shortlisted immediately, but I've not seen this mentioned before.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Hmm, I think immortality is sillier than gods keeping afflictions, and keeping afflictions (sometimes) seems more interesting for play that having them all always vanish. But getting permanently removed by a disease seems like a bug.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

it wouldn;t be permantly, it would be just like a god dieing, even imortal gods need to recalled when they die out of their dominion.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I thought Graeme meant permanently gone when he said permanently gone. Maybe not.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Graeme's post is fairly unequivocal. Dead permanently even in friendly dominion. There are also other issues with immortality and friendly dominion, so it's been reported.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I just did a test. Gave a phoenix a bane venom charm and hit 'e' a lot. Anyway, hit points fell steadily to 1, then the phoenix just "moved" to the capital (obviously died and reappeared there). It had lost the bane venom charm, and the next turn got back to full hit points.

So it seems like the bug doesn't exist after all, or at least not consistently. Edi, apologies for posting on the bug thread without proper testing.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

No problem. Things happen, and immortality has been plagued with all sorts of uncertainties and even straight out weird behavior. I'll remove the shortlist entry.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I'm about 99% sure that there is a bug out there that would explain the OP's (rather bald) statement, and perhaps Graeme's post as well. I'm not sure if this is a known bug (but I haven't seen it on the bug list), but here's how I think year end disease processing works:

In the month which new afflictions are checked for and added, there are two months worth of disease degeneration that occurs. So, for example, if you're using fever fetishes on a scout (one of the easier ways to test this), and your at month 12 with 2 hps, as you roll over to month 1, your scout will be dead.

Moreover, if you have a scout with 1hp at month 12, he will die w/ no announcement. This is the category which I think might explain the immortal dying due to disease. I suspect the first of the two disease processing steps is incomplete, and if an immortal is processed in this way, the reincarnation step is skipped (just as the death announcement step is skipped with my scouts).

I've been wanting to put together a simple test that shows this, but I believe I've seen this many times, and I believe that this is 100% repeatable.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

The easiest way I've seen to make this occur is to use the master with the iron crutch.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Now that I think about it, I think in SP game few of my old mages got disease during late winter. That's normal, but when I checked their HP, they had only 8 out of 10, so I think it's possible there is extra round of disease during late winter when aging checks are done. Maybe this is when immortals might die of disease?

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I had one of those LA atlantis capital only mages who got diseased.

I had him cast twiceborn and set him to charge the enemy in a friendly dominion.

He died but didn't reappear in my capitol as a wight mage. I don't have the turn anymore, but I'm pretty sure that was a bug.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

A bit OT,

I have always thought curses, afflictions, and horror marks should be gone when a god dies and is called back. If your body is destroyed and remade, how can it still have afflictions? I can theorize that curses and horror marks affect the spirit or soul, and survive the rebirth?

Anyway, I think the loss of items and loss of magical strength is a sufficient penalty for a pretender biting the bullet.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Late winter!! You might be on to something here.

I posted a savegame here with this bug, in october.

My phoenix died in friendly dominion, battle report said no commander died, as normal. Same turn, a message that my Phoenix died of a disease, but there was *no province name* for where he died. Hall of fame shows a disease, but there was none in the battle, so apparantly he got it during the killing blow. This was in Late Winter, sounds like a bug in the old age mechanic.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Mivayan, please give me the post number. Search based links tend to get seriously screwed up if people have different posts per page settings in their profile, because the profile settings and the link settings don't mesh and it gets all screwy.

This looks like it's certainly going to get re-entered into the shortlist, but I want all the links so the entry will be as good as possible. This is one of the more complex bugs I've seen so far.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

How? Er, during the magical process of the body being re-created, which is a miracle in itself, apparently the new body is based on the old body to some degree, and the process can recreate some problems with the old body. What that process actually involves in the metaphysics of the immaginary universe, isn't spelled out, so it's up to the developers and their code to determine. Seems to me it can "make sense" either way, or could make sense many other ways, given the info we have and don't have.

From a balance and interest perspective, though, some pretenders don't need items or magic to be very potent, and currently with enough priests, they can be (immortal or) called back very quickly, meaning there isn't much risk or cost or countermeasure. You manage to kill the Wyrm, but you have to fight it again very soon, etc., so your accomplishment means little, especially if it isn't afflicted in any way. In fact, it probably has more experience now. Removing all afflictions would remove some balance, risk, detail and interest from the gameplay, it seems to me.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

It's #457985, I think. Is this the right way to link to it?

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Thanks. When linking to specific single posts somewhere, this is the best way to do it. Click on the "Re: <whatever>" after the post title, then substitute the post number and remove everything after that, it'll get you the cleanest link.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

I was very surprised when I recently completed Call God to find that two of my pretender's afflictions had disappeared. He had four when he died. He is not immortal, and does not have recuperation (he's a Cyclops).

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Yes, you always have some chance to heal afflictions when coming back from death.

-Max

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Couple of nights ago my Phoenix died a turn after he resurrected from the previous "death". When he resurrected i just loaded him up with gems and send him off again. Next turn i got a message that he had died from a poison in *blank*. Now hes permanently dead and my priests are calling him back :/

All this in a friendly province & dominion.

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Was it Late Winter the turn he died in *blank*?

Re: My immortal phoenix died of a disease??
 

Cant recall for sure :/