Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

For those of you who do not mod, or visit the mod forums, I am in the process of making an Epic Heroes Mod for the MA. The goal of the mod is to create a unique epic hero that will replace your scout commander at the start of the game. It is being designed to be played with the Worthy Hero Mod.

I already have 13 Epic Heroes made for these MA races:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Hannibal, Arcosephale

A beta version of the mod is available for download on the mod forums if you want to view these heroes. I have been wracking my brain for the ideas for heroes, and some have been suggested or made by others.

But some races I have no ideas for. They are the 3 water races, the new ma race, and Shin. Any help would be appreciated.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Do you want stats, or just names and ideas to go with them? What level of detail are you looking for?

Jazzepi

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I will take ideas. And some have gone beyond offering an idea, and provided a description as well. The Endoperez exceeded that by providing 2 complete heroes. We worked a bit on getting them balanced for my mod, but they are Endoperez' creation.

So I am open to and completely appreciative of anything- just the idea or submitting your own fully blown hero. If I like the hero, I may take him "as is." More likely i will have some suggestions about the description and maybe require balance changes be made to him so he is not too overpowered, or underpowered for that matter.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

R'yleh: The Traitor King. An ancient Basalt King who's betrayal led to the enslavement of large parts of the Atlanean race. Fits with the Traitor Prince's they can recruit, modeled on the EA Basalt Kings (balance appropriately), possibly a large size as I think Atlanteas keep gowning forever(?). He's been promised rulership over all Atlanteans once they are subjugated.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Thanks, I will explore it.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Cathbad the Druid for Eriu. It's a no brainer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Here is a very short write up on him from wikipedia:

Cathbad (KATH-vath) is the chief druid in the court of Conchobar mac Nessa in the Ulster Cycle of Irish Mythology.

In his younger days he was a warrior, leading a landless band of twenty-seven men. Once he led a raid on the house where the Ulster princess Ness was brought up, killing all twelve of her foster-fathers. Ness sought revenge, becoming a warrior and leading her own band of twenty-seven. However, one day when she went off on her own to bathe in a pool, Cathbad came between her and her weapons and demanded her as his wife. She had no choice but to agree.

Ness had a son, Conchobar mac Nessa, although whether his father was Cathbad or Fachtna Fáthach, the High King of Ireland and Ness's lover, the stories do not agree.

Cathbad had the ability to foretell the future. He was present at the birth of Deirdre and prophesied her tragic fate, but Conchobar ignored him. On another occasion, the young Cúchulainn overheard Cathbad prophesy that anyone who took arms on that day would have everlasting fame but a short life; he immediately ran to Conchobar and asked to be armed.

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I would be willing to do the graphics and the stats for this hero if you like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

2 nits to pick:

1) Why would pythium have a fallen angel? It be more thematic to have a regular angel. Like Michael, perhaps.

2) Hannibal was Carthagian (Phoenician if you want to stretch it), not Greek. If you need a hero for Arco it should be Alexander or Leonidas.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I agree with Ironhawk on number 2. LOL I said number 2. Arco is based on Greece, and no one did heroes better than the greeks. It seems odd to have a hero from another culture, even if that culture is heavily greek influenced.

Off the top of my head, I can think of a gazillion choices for Arco heroes, although some may be more EA or LA appropriate depending on where you draw the line for ages in real life Greece. 800 bc - 500 bc EA? 500- 300 MA? 300-100 LA?

I was about to make a list, but FFS, there are so many good choices and most are probably already known to you. Just look at any Greek tragedy for some MA appropriate hero ideas.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I think if we're talking Arco heroes, you should be looking at Greek mythology for EA heroes (yep, should be easy).

Then classical historical figures for MA (hmm, how would you render Pericles in Dominions?).

And then post- Alexandrian figures in LA (for example, how about a Ptolemy Kuranos - sp? I'm not sure, but equals Ptolemy Thunderbolt, or something like that, I believe. You can give him some air magic - not very historical, but kind of matches the name http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif).

99.9% tongue-in-cheek, for Shinuyama, how about the Kappa Commander (or whoever it was who was the main bad guy in Mario Brothers)? Perhaps he could have some kind of special bonuses while fighting against Marignon (the most Italianesque of the Dominion races, dang those Luigi and Mario!).

Somewhat more serious, but non-hero related, while we're talking about Hannibal - has anyone made a racial mod based on Carthage/Phoenicia yet (I don't visit the mod forum much)? I'd say give 'em sailing, elephants, decent light cavalry, perhaps a permanent discount when it comes to hiring mercenaries (is that possible?), and of course blood sacrifice. Maybe something that should be whipped up for EA in the next patch, while I'm wishfully thinking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

My understanding is that Arcoscephale *is* Carthage as well as Greece, hence the elephants. Link.

-Max

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Hero for Arco? The canonical choice is Hercules, of course. And make him powerful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

That's what I get for not visiting the mod forum - it's likely been thought of already (I'd just assumed the elephants = Hellenistic, Seleucid "Greece").

Still like the Kappa Commander though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

That's a lot of cultures to bundle into one nation. I figured the elephants were representative of Greek expansion into Persian and other Mediterranean areas.

I still think a Greek hero would be more fitting simply because even if Arco is Carthage, Phoenicia, Greece and Persia rolled into one, the Greek influence stands out the most. And that may be because three quarters of the cultures people think Arco is based on are pretty much Greek or close to it. Personally I think there are some distinctions between the all four of the cultures at any given time period, but I don't want the thread to devolve into a debate on if Phoenicia and Carthage are seperate cultures from Greece,

But let's not lose sight to the fact that Arcoscephale is truly nothing more than an imaginary nation in a video game. So, Xietor can take any liberties he wants and use Hannibal if he likes and really can we question what heroes are used in this mod? Hannibal is an OK fit for Arco, but I think there could be better.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

MA R'lyeh already has a Traitor King hero, Shadul Ummuush, a mage with W5. A traitor Basalt King for EA R'lyeh would not be as thematic, but a Traitor Mage (a Mage of the Deep, precursor to the later Kings of the Deep), a powerful mage who fled the Basalt Kings and Queens because they would have slain him for being too ambitious.

Though it would make more sense that such a one would seek Oceania as a safe haven. Though you could probably have a Traitor Mage for EA R'lyeh and an Atlantian Mage-in-Exile for Oceania.

Jomon could probably benefit from one more really kick-*** samurai hero, somebody with an insane defense value and built-in fear and awe.

For Vanheim and Helheim, several possibilities are opened up by the Asmeg. Indies of a disabled poptype, descendants of the Aesir who survived the war with the Rimtursar. So some Asmeg heroes could well come of that.

For Ulm, EA & MA, a specialty smith hero. The idea is lifted more from Michael Scott Rohan's Winter of the World trilogy where the main character is a smith of extraordinary skill and power. Magics of F3A2E4W2S3 would be thematic for that one if you were to take the character as he was.

T'ien Ch'i could probably use an immortal general and possibly a hero who could shapechange into some kind of dragon.

The rest of my ideas I'm keeping to myself since I might use them myself somewhere (not necessarily Dom3) and thus they're not for public consumption.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

My mod is MA only.

And great minds think alike. My epic hero for MA Ulm is a Master Smith. Though i used the name Black Duke Of Ulm, and gave him a unique troop summon(in honor of Arralen's Black Steel of Ulm Mod) I totally remade him. And He is really quite interesting. Take a peek.

Would your idea for a kick *** guy ninja apply to ma shin as well?

And yes, I want unique heroes for all 22 ma races. If i cannot think of something unique 22 times shame on me. So If the hero is already in the game or included in worthy heroes, i will not use that idea.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

You could get a whole theme of different kinds of Exile and Traitor heroes, people who have fled to kingdoms near and far to escape assassins, after being dethroned, out of a sense of being betrayed by their own nation, following love or just purely out of personal greed.

Some interesting crossovers would be Vanheim, Man and Eriu who all have more or less things in common with each other.

A Machakan exile would fit almost anywhere and be exotic.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I am keeping Hannibal. He was the one who was known for elephants. it just would not be quite right to have Alexander riding an elephant. If arcos was based solely on the Greeks they should not have an elephant unit.

And I really wanted an elephant commander hero.

Of course i could just let him take a default arcos male name.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

If you read the Fallen Angel's description you will see why he is the PERFECT fit for Pythium. For those too lazy to load the mod(cry) here it is:

A divine being in human form, the Fallen Angel is winged and armed with a flaming sword that destroys undead beings. Angels are surrounded by a radiant aura that intimidates cowardly beings. During the age of the Pantokrator rule, contact between mortals and angels was forbidden. However, during Pythium's violent split with Ermor, one defiant angel came to Pythium's aid in their darkest hour. Despite Pythium's reverence of angels - or because of it - the Fallen Angel was permanently cast out of the heavens. Even after the Pantokrator's sudden disappearance, it still wanders the mortal realm. Legend holds that the Fallen Angel, regardless of the cost, will always come to Pythium's aid.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Ah. Normally a "fallen angel" is a term used for angels which have been corrupted by evil and cast out.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I am fairly certain that Arco is based on Greece for the first two eras and based on Greece/Mesopotamian culture in LA (Representing Alexander's expansion.).

Adding Hannibal as their starting hero reminds me of a football team picking a kicker that was predicted to go in the third round of the draft rather than picking the Running Back everyone expected to go in the first round. It's true they are both football players, but still seems like a strange choice.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I suggest Wong Fei Hung for Late T'ien Ch'i.

Legendary Chinese martial artist, and doctor.
He should be given a very high defence, air sheild (deflecting arrows by hand), heal (he was a renowned healer), And the kappa bone breaking attack (give him 4 attacks per round 2 kicks and 2 punches), He shoul dhave a high leadership(he was a militia drillmaster)

the only problem, he lived in early 1900s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Fei_Hung

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I know. What a twist!! I intentionally made him fallen in the description because, even though he did what he felt was right, it was still against Divine Law, making him fallen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My original description fleshed it out more but Xietor had to change it up a bit since it would have screwed the unit up making it mute like I had written him. That and you can't just name something Nameless.

Maybe I'm reading too much Neil Gaiman.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I will scrap the Hannibal name and use the title "Elephantarch." which si what Alexander called his Elephant commander. Alexander hated elephants, so it would be out of the question for me to use Alexander as an elephant commander and trainer.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Hmmmm. Seems intentionally misleading to me, but then its not my mod so it doesnt really matter I guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

This is good stuff. Thanks for sharing that link. I had never heard of Wong Fei Hung, a very interesting person with an incredible life.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

yes, if you read my credits in the mod, you will see it credits bandar lover with the idea of the fallen angel. he wrote out a good descr. but i had to edit it a bit.

Thanks for all the input. I just made the elephant hero have a generic male arcos name.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Whats the point if your keeping an elephant hero? Just call him Hannibal.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Apparently some people think Hannibal was from the wrong era. cough.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Cough? Are you being checked for a hernia?

The point was not that he was in the wrong era, the point was out of the gazillion great choices for an Arco hero you picked a Phoenician General over a gazillion true heroes from the Hellas.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I apologize for my lack of knowledge of the era. My knowledge of famous elephant commanders is a bit limited. But that is the reason I like to get feedback. I think using the name Alexander gave to his elephant commander is a good fit.

And you can only have 2 "named" heroes anyway, with only 2 custom name types available. Since I used one up for Beowulf it may be a good idea to save the other name list for Turin if he wants a unique name for one of his new worthy heroes.

it is all good.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I think Shin should get either Kintaro or Momotaro, they are the most famous legendary Japanese heroes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintaro

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momotaro

Kintaro and Momotaro both fight demons, so they are no good for Yomi. Demons are long gone in Jomon. So maybe Kintaro or Momotaro is fighting alongside the goblins against the Oni?

I think Kintaro would be best since you could outfit him with a cool axe. Plus he was raised by an Ogress, and that's almost a Bakemono, I suppose.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Oh, speaking of Beowulf, dont you think he'd be better placed with Vanheim? He was a norse hero after all, no?

King Arthur or Robin Hood might be more thematic for Man. Actually, what about the Lady of the Lake? Or Morgana? Merlin??

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

You can read up on greek mythology and fables, most of it is in the Project Gutenberg. It's really worth a read. Homer wrote the Odyssey of Odysseus and the Iliad which centers on the downfall of Troja. There are lots of Heroes participating in that war. But I'd rather use characters from greek mythology like Orpheus or Heracles, both of which are a very good read. Although I have to give respect to the Dom3 devs, heroes that don't steal from existing fictional heroes too much can be far more interesting than those modelled after them - they always seem to be lacking something which doesn't do the myths justice, since you have to make decisions how you can portray a particular feature of the hero ingame.

Oh, and I think that BandarLover's initial concept of making the Fallen Angel mute is awesome. It's unfortunate that you're so picky and closed-minded about things like old age, horrors, afflictions, bad events, and generally anything that represents a flaw or a burden as a game element.

Those would be cool. That got me to think of William Tell as a national hero for Ulm, maybe. A ranger hero with exceptional precision and a magical crossbow.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

The idea of King Arthur is just so cool. Alas, I had never heard of beowulf till 2005, but Arthur, I knew him when I was a kid! Why, we shall have his presence abiding with us. and avalon. and excalibur. Heck, we shall be able to use The Excalibur in game--what a sword!

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

I think Shin should get either Kintaro or Momotaro, they are the most famous legendary Japanese heroes.
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Good idea.

While Beowulf may be a better fit for vanaheim, they are overpowered in the early expansion phase and will not be getting an Epic Hero that helps them in that area. Beowulf actually summons Nordic troops, so there is recognition that he is a Nordic Hero. But there was no way in hell vanaheim was getting Beowulf for balance reasons.

King Arthur is a perfect fit for MA Man, and I may make him and add him to Worthy Heroes for MA Man after I finish Epic Heroes. It was just a matter of personal preference that Beowulf went to Man. The fact that there were more thematic fits available notwithstanding.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

oh, and it was not that i did not want to mute the fallen angel,but some things cannot be modded, at least not by me.

Like the air shield mentioned above for the shin. hero.(he breaks incoming arrows with his hands). I love the concept, but air shields are not something you can add by mod at this time. Or I should say, if it can be done I do not possess the knowledge to do it.

So I may like certain suggestions, but have to change them a bit to fit with the abilities i can actually mod into the character. Even though he is not mute, I think the Fallen Angel's descr is still pretty clear to most people as to why he has "fallen."

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

As for adding airshield to a unit: I dunno if there is a specific mod command for it - and there may be with the dom3 mod commands - but one idea I had for it was to do the following:

- make a special armor for the hero that has airshield as a property
- curse it so it cannot be removed
- give it to the hero

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Hm, since pretenders like the Allfather and the Forgelord start with Afflictions, I would have expected that you can mod them for heroes, too. Okay.

About Ironhawks idea: you could create an intrinsic "Fists of the Wind" weapon which gives arrow fend, maybe. By making it intrinsic the effect should be always enabled, too.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

You cannot mod armor with air shield to my knowledge and cannot mod afflictions. Maybe one of the wily vets can add their wisdom.

And since you guys are a tough crowd, I took your traitor idea, but not for a water race, to make Ermor's Epic Hero. Thoughts?

The Order of Sauromancers requires rigorous training and skill for membership, including immersion in the black waters of the Underworld. In ancient times Sauromancers learned black magic, and closely guarded its secrets. For they understood that the use of black magic by mages not fully trained would lead to the swift destruction of all living beings. The Betrayer of Ctis lost a bitter fight for leadership of the Order to a rival. Knowing his life expectancy under his rival's rule would be extremely short, the Betrayer left Ctis. Later, he surfaced at Ermor promising to reveal the secrets of dark magic in return for power and wealth. Though he warned the Ermor mages not to practice dark magic until their training was complete, their impatience caused his dire warnings to go unheeded. When the nightmare started, the Betrayer aided Ermor, and now leads the Death Cult.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Can you just give Kintaro an Amulet of Missile Protection as starting equipment? You could also give him a shield of valor, but thematically he's not supposed to come with armor.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Armor does not get magical effects, only the stats. So i could start him with shield of valor, but he would only get stats of shield not missile shield.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

You may consider giving him air 1. I am not sure if this conflicts with the nature of the hero, but with air 1 he can cast air shield from turn 1 of the game.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Only if you mod the item directly into the hero, xietor.

If you just add the item to the commander via map mod commands then he will have the item in his inventory, just like normal.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Ironhawk,

But doesn't that void the whole point of doing epic heroes as a mod?

-Max

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Depends if its for a specific game or not. If the mod is intended for general use, then yeah.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

The A1 idea sounds best for Kintaro in any case, since he's not supposed to come with anything except his axe and a bib. Maybe even A1N2 would be appropriate, so he can eventually summon animals. But thematically he should be a melee dude, so don't go too nuts on the magic paths.

Re: Ideas neeeded for some Epic Heroes
 

Epic Hero Mod beta 0.12 is posted on the mod forum.

It introduces the Ancient Master for Shin.

Features:

1. A devastating "Quivering Palm" attack, that will not be replaced by weapons(bonus weapon).

2. "Whirling Fists" which cannot be replaced by giving him items. The Whirling Fists will break arrows before they reach him.

He has other features. I would be interested in feedback.
I incorporated some of the ideas posted. I think the way i did Whirling fists achieves the purpose without giving him 1A.