German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good day,

I few days ago, after updating to 2.5, I was doing my usual German OOB's mods, such as adding Befehlswagens, and a few WHAT IF's for post May 45 scenarios and a thought occurred to me. The icon for the Kraftrads was only one MC sidecar, so would it be more realistic if the Units were modified to reflect this. So I changed the four Unit available.

-I gave them 3 men, max on a MC sidecar.
-Reduced the Hand grenades and MG ammo.
-And reduced the cost accordingly.
-Formations were changed to a section, 3 MC's and a Squad of 10 MC's.

I'm presently using 2 of these Squads as my KG's Recce, and the results were grand, Now that these are no longer 10 man Units, they are a lot more effective in their intended role, the temptation to use then as infantry is no longer there, and they can cover more ground with the MARK 1 Eyeball. Hope this idea is of interest,

Man I love this game!!

Cheers, Bob

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Let's put it this way. Before I would say this is a great idea or a bad idea there would need to be further testing on the effects of a change like that on, not only overall game play but how that would affect existing sceanrios that use MC as well.

It's something to mull over during the summer

Don

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hello all.

An interesting idea. I can see why you did this and can see why this kind of formation would be of use. There are quite a few sceanrios featuring German MC units however. I would like to raise a few gameplay/realsim points for debate though. The Germans used MC in several ways:

1. Attached to indidual units and formations as dispatch riders and messengers. Not really relevant in game terms.

2. In MC coys in the Recce btl of motorised formations.

3. In MC companies in early war (1939-1941) Schutzen and Kradshutzen btls.

In cases 2&3 the MCs were used as a form of APC or Truck. They were a means to transport the users rapidly around the battlefield before they dismounted and fought as infantry. The MCs withdrwaing out of range. The Krad coys were also equiped with sevral MMGs and mortars both 50 & 81mm to support them in these tasks.

The current use of MC units in the game doesn't reflect this perfectly but does allow them to be used in coy size units reasonably well.

I would like to see a unit of bobs size for recon use reflecting a detachment from the Recce coys in addtion to the current MC or krad coys. Not as a replacemnt. I know there are limited slots left in the German oob so if this doesn't happen perhaps we should leave things as is? what do people think?

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good day,

Both responces are great, I do like the idea of having both types of MC units available for the exact reasons as stated above by Ian. (Especially for early war play.) Mod OOB's are saveable, so for home grown games this should fine, restoreing regular OOB's for crafted scenarios ETC.

Purely for the look of the Units on the ground the MC is the only unit which at present it's icon doesn't reflect it accurately, it should be multiple MC's, as it is a 10 man unit. Which is what led me to try this Mod.

I will keep you abreast of how it works out for me over the next few months of campaigning.

I'm also going to work on a Unit mix, along the lines Ian suggested.

-some single MC units for recce work
-somehow intigrated into the Kraftrad Kp structure
-find or create a multi-MC icon.

I will begin work on this in ernest, once I recieve my CD version which has just shipped.

I don't neccessarily expect this idea to make a future version, Don, it's just a change I thought others might enjoy or benefit from. One of the many charms of this game is ability to amend or invent units and see want would have happened.

I have a few other What if's I'm working on, more on those later.

Cheers, Bob

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

I also wondered how to get closer to real-life use of MC scouts. As you pointed out, the motorcycles themselves were just a rapid means of transport and the units would fight dismounted as soon as contact is made - therefore, I use armed MC transports to carry around light infantry squads and scouts, that way both roles can be caried out.

Side note: the losses of motorcycles with and without sidecars were tremendous, usually higher than the number of cars or trucks lost, therefore reflecting the widespread use of MCs, not only in Kradschuetzen units - e.g., in Poland, until 10/10/39, they lost 5523 MCs, 1492 of them complete write-offs, whereas during the same timeframe they lost 4052 trucks and 1949 cars, 1595 and 991 being unrepairable, respectively. (source: Hahn, Fritz: Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deutschen Heeres 1939-1945); in France, 7231 MCs, 2996 cars and 5227 trucks were lost; note also that this includes mechanical breakdowns, vehicles lost in accidents, stuck in the mud, etc... (a vehicle at that time was built for a 10.000km life - which it hardly ever reached anyway)

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hi Shan
I find it easier to just change the motorcycles size from 2 to 1, they can then both move many hexes and fight on equal terms with regular infantry. But of course idealy the motercycles should be dismountable (not to mention bicycles)
Regards Chuck

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hi Bob, if you haven't done so already you may want to checkout the Italian OB. They have both the full size MC squads for combat operations and small (I think 2 man) recon MC units. These are size 0 and extremely useful for reconnaissance. I use them regularly when playing the Italians.

Narwan

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Sure its easier to change them to size 1 - but is it realistic? They you have the same size of infantry - in fact, super-fast-moving infantry that rules the battlefield... so I'd reject this option. The downside of my solution with size 2 MC transports and size 0-1 scouts/inf passengers, however, is also that if drawing enemy fire or driving into a minefield, the crew dismounts and sometimes takes heavy casualties, as does the unarmored bike, but hey, that's what I buy them for... better than losing a tank. I also experimented with single bikes - those will arguably be OK with size 1, IF they are only armed with a pistol - otherwise you got the 1-man Rambo biker---

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hi Shan
Well as super fast moving infantry they do take a lot of casualties when they get hit moving fast which balances them out a bit. But your correct, Ive used them to "unrealisticly" swarm armour on occasion.
Wouldnt it be better to model the transports as size 1? italian tankettes for instance are size 1 and are bigger.
Best Chuck.

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

ok, the size of the units can be discussed, of course. I don't have the game accessible at the moment - but I guess a jeep/Kuebelwagen has size 2, so an MC should be smaller - but even if they're size 2 - I don't think that makes a big difference anyway. And the casualties I take when I drive into an ambush/minefield at full speed are usually quite light - especially if you have experienced units - most times I am able to rally hem and pull back and/or pop smoke, and voilà, mission accomplished: I know where the enemy is and can deal with hima ccordingly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif.

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

I have to correct myself again... the AGDZ was an 8x8 heavy recon vehicle, also taken over from Austria in '38 and mostly used against Partisans; similar in configuration to the german 8-wheel recon vehicle, but quite old-fashioned-looking. - check those very good pics of ADGZ in use with SS, on a polish website: http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/panzerwagen_adgz.htm

The other vehicle with the track/wheel changeable confiuration was called Saurer-RR7 and can be seen here: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/austria/rr7.jpg

wiki info: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saurer_RR-7 - it says it was sued as a armored observation vehicle and not more than some 140 were produced in total, 12 ordered originally by Austria and the rest by the Wehrmacht.

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good post, but a thread apart, Shan http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good day,

Narwan,thanks for pointing me towards the Italian MC units, this does solve one problem with amending the German MC units. The motorcycle(light infantry) & motorcycle (heavy infantry)classes should help making them being more accurate. I'm working on a solution within the programmes parameters.

Shan, thanks for your side note, the figures and info you relayed to us, caused me to do so more research on the Kradschützen (not finsihed yet) amongst other things, I did confirm the carnage the Kradschützen endured in action and the 50% casualities, is not out of line. This figures in the game as well, at least in most of my battles. These stats still ring true with the 2 battles my new single MC have been though, however, my units have been able to carry out their assignments better, being split up. I see why, where possible, the Wehrmacht began replacing MC Recce Units with Armoured Cars. MC's did aerve in the Recce role unit the end of the war with many units. I can well imagine a lot of FNG's were riding point in action. All this has also confirmed that "Recce by Death" was not just routine that keeps raising it's ugly head on the game board.

All this confirms yet again, how awesome this game real is!!!

Cheers, Bob

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Some intersting stuff fellas

Panzerbob,

I for one would be interested in hearing how you get on. I've only recently rediscovered Steel Panthers having played it years ago. My mod skills are zero as a result!

PatG made me smile on the Russian MC thread! Your right Steel Panthers ain't car wars, lol!

Still my interest in this is simply because I like playing with mechanised German units. The krad units are their main recon units espically early war. I like to follow the German doctrine of using agressive recce to "fight for info".

I agree with chuck that in an ideal world the MC units and cavalry would be dismountable. This would more than likely be a major headache for Don and the other designers though! The game is great as it is after all.

Would it be posible to re-exam the Krad units weapons slots though? There is link given by serveral guys to Kstn info at:

www.wwiidaybyday.com

Increasing Krad unit firepower and the units in the formations close to real life would be a bonus for me! To much of a headache though? Anyone any thoughts? Worth the bother?

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hi again!

Yeah this game is great... in the meantime I compared some MC units of various OOBs - German MC sections are AFAIK the only ones having size 2 - they have 12 men and carry a lot of weapons... but in some other OOBs you will also find large squads, all at size 1, so the first thing I'd do is change the existing Kradschuetzen to size 1.

I'm now experimenting with my MC transports and trying to find a good company TO&E - I use Scouts, created 6-men light infantry squads and got LMGs as well, while the MC transports are only armed with a SMG. The company has 2 directly attached MC scouts (3 men, size 1, SMG + grenades), 3 platoons including a heavy platoon with an attached FO, A/T rifles, a sniper and a light A/T gun and so on - good for the initial German campaigns...

I'll need to find out more about actual Kradschuetzen TO&Es, however, to reconfirm this, but basically I think I'm not too far off. Such a unit may quickly secure a bridge and fight off an enemy counterattack until relieved, as it happened many times in RL - which is almost impossible with the existing, non-dismounting MCs.

Panzerbob,

The armored cars always existed parallel with the Kradschuetzen, the latter being the fast-moving infantry support for the former... if I find a good TO&E I'll post it. Later in the war, esp. in Russia, the MCs got bogged down in the russian mud and were worse-affected by the road conditions than all other types of vehicles, thats why this form of transport was abandoned... one of the reason why Germany had so many MCs and didn't give the recon units appropriate transports such as - at least - 4x4 unarmored vehicles, better half-track APCs as was done later, was just that the industry counln't cope with the requirements - look at the enormous losses of MCs in Poland, where roads were pretty bad as well - already in '39 it was obvious that MCs would never survive the russian mud seasons in spring and fall...

A related issue: I checked particularly on recon units in the german OOB and foudn that the 6x6 and 8x8 SdKfz231 currently are rated at size 2, while the successor, the 234, got size 3 - in fact the older Spaehwagen was so high and technically complicated - even without frame antennas it was 2.4m high, the versions with frame antennas 2.9m!
Thats why a new design was introduced - looking very similar but the '234 is 20cm lower that the basic 8x8 '231 (and has no more frame antennas - the '234 had better long range radios where such an antenna was unnecessary).

Basically, both versions are quite huge (6m long...) and should have size 3 or even 4, I'd say. (size 2 is also the size of a Kuebelwagen or Jeep... ;-))

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Shan,

Have a look at the above link. Go into the OOB section, then the KsTN section. KsTN are the offical German TOE for WW2. If you check the Panzertruppen section there's info on the TOE of MC units among many others.

It can be found under the kraftradeschutzen Kompanie for the early war mech infanrty type units mounted on bikes and in the Panzer-AufklarungsKompanie formations. Ie the recce coys of the recce btl. All in German though, but still useful!

Getting info on armoured car TOE, well good luck! as with most German units every foramtion seems to be diferent!

Though normally there were one or if very lucky 2 coys per reecce btl. Armoured cars were actually quite scarce in Pz Divisions even the SS late war elite units.

You can find info on the Sdfz 250 coys that replace the Krad coys on the site as well. Though the support or heavy coys of the recce units aren't in yet. Again these varied widely but typically had a anti-tank plt, inf gun plt and engineer/pionner plt.

A realism point though. Win Steel Panthers works on a core of 200 units, a reinforeced btl sized foramtion or kampfgruppen in German terms. The amount of recce assets the Div could or would assign them would be a fairly small part of the Kampfgruppe, espically late war. More than likley a Aufklarungs Gruppe or a recce group built from various units with the recce btl. Early war krad companies were availbable in greater numbers though from the Kraftradeschutzen btls and the Krad kompanie in each Schutzen or mot inf btl.

Good hunting!

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

You mean this one, posted by Popski - http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstnpanzermain.htm - yeah, my dreams come true... I am already adapting my Kradschuetzen according to this...

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hi Shan,
Motorcycle size has been a hobbyhorse of mine for a while. As you mention these units fight dismounted but cant do this effectively in-game because at size 2 the opponents infantry just chews them up.
Also I have yet to fathom why bicycle units are size 2, they were popular during the war, most german infantry divisions recce battalions were bicycle mounted, theres a KTSN for bicycle mounted panzer grenadiers, In Holland there was at least one completely bicycle mounted division. The British, Canadians and Japanese also made use of them.
Same problem, once "dismounted" bicycle infantry cant effectively fight the opponents infantry because they are size 2.
In previous incanations of the game bicycle infantry has been size 1 and bicycle mounted HMG's have even been modeled as size 0.
Also I think that in-game the height of the vehicle seems more important than length or width. Probably because the range is the big problem with hitting the target and the higher it is the more likely you are to hit it.
Best Regards Chuck.

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Well, Gentlemen,

More ideas, and a great Orbat resource, (I'm surprised I've never run into this one, the German probally threw me off the scent.) I think between us we should be able to come up a workable Aufklarungs Gruppe for attachment to our KG's.

http://www.fireandfury.com/extra/ordersofbattle.shtml

http://www.fireandfury.com/faq/faqGermans.shtml

These two references, may help as well especially with the Kraftrad/Panzerspahwagen combo question, and I beleive Ian had some German Org. questions these may help with. Combined with the German Lang. OOB and the above Refs, just a quick look clarified how the Kradschuetzen, were idealy formed, My refs aren't always as detailed as needed to cobble to together our units.

I like the idea you have for dismountable Kraftrad truppen, please send sitreps on how they work.

My Boys have finished their second battle, advancing on Cannuks in Normandy. They did well, but at a heavy toll. They saved many of my Panzers from PIAT ambushes. I've always have problems with those Canuk PIAT teams, shades of Smokey Smith I surpose. All that being said, my concept is bearing some positve results. However, we shall see. My plan is the try Shan's idea when I load my CD version when it arrives. Then I shall begin testing in earnst.

Cheers, Bob

The Boys catchin a few Z's before their next battle.
http://www.ica-d.de/srv/chr/pic/b0709a.jpg

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Panzerbob,

Interesting links, though the TOE is not bang on for some units and not as relaible as going by KsTN charts (though actually field units always varied quite widley of course) It answered my question about who operated the flamethrower tanks though so cheers!

Having done some more digging around in various books I'd argue that the German oob (oob16) may need some tweaking for the German recce units to be historically a bit more accurate, ie weapons/vehilces and troop numbers/type but hey thats what modhack's for I guess.

I have been trying out scout/kublewagon combinations late war. As the kubelwagon companies had thier own KsTN and were quite widely used. In game terms it lets you sneak about a bit more as they are faster than the sdkfz 250 so you can move in fast then dismount and obseerve an area. Not much combat value though!

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

I just wanna tell you what I've done so far: I created my personal Kradschuetzen company along the lines of the great website provided by the other guys. In '39, for example, the company has 3 platoons each with 3 6-men sections , I classed those as light infantry. They have K-98k, LMG-34, hand grenades and pistol, unit size 1. Each such section has its own MC transport, classed as Motorcycle. Size=1, 3men, 6 men carrying capacity, amament: K-98k, pistol. The 4th section of each platoon is a light 5cm grenade launcher troop (3men, already exists).

Then, the company has a 4th platoon with 2x MMG-34 half-sections, those already exist, an 2x MC transports.

During the course of the war, weapons change of course (MPi-40 instead of pistoly, MG-42s, ...), and TO&E as well, but not significantly.

I used unit class= light infantry for my Kradschuetzen - later in the war the Luftwaffe units use the same class as well but I dont see a problem with that, you just have to take care what you buy. Also, I created a dedicated 'Kradmelder' who cannot dismount from his bike, this being a 2-men unit IIRC, but basically the 3-men MC transports can do the same job.

I am now using such a company in my North Africa-based long campaign, and it fights quite well!
Losses are of course there due to the nature of their mission, but the 6-men sections are doing well, and their bikes often recovered them out of trouble... only the 5cm grenade launchers are quite useless, I normally use them for direct fire thoguh and then they're not too bad. Overall, I'm quite happy with the results, they were better than expected. I'll also do something similar for the Fuesilierkompanie (bicycle infantry), should work accordingly.

Regards,

Shan

I am now using such a formation

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good day all.

After our discussions, and some trial and error I've decided to keep my single MC sidecar Unit, with various arms as per time period, amended to reflect less men (3)plus a size of 0. I decided not to use the Scout/MC transport combo,(I tried it) while even more versatile than a MC unit, I found with the KG sizes I command the MC unit was a little more practical. Of course, 30 battles latter may prove me wrong.

As for formations, I've gone with two creations based on what DIV might pass down to a KG for their use. I've formed a PzKrad Aufkl Gp:

3 x MC/sidecars
2 x MG armed Kubelwagen w 4 men

Plus a PzKrad Spah Gp:

3 x MC/sidecars
1 x (le)Panzerspahwagen
1 x (sw)Panzerspahwagen

One of each will be Recce for the KG on my new campaign. I'm going to try and keep a running AAR on this campaign.

Cheers, Bob

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good to to see your still experimenting!

Would you fellas consider posting your modded OOB16 so other folks can have a look how the formations handle? It would also be useful to get some more feedabck from anyone else reading this as to whether asking for this to be looked at by the designers is worthwhile or of interest to anyone other than the three of us!

Pz Bob & shan could you spare the time to let folks know how the different MC units are performing in your games?

I intended to start screening through the scenarios to see how many would be effected if a change was to be on the cards. Some potenial flaws already though!

1. Any change would probaberly require the creation of new units. The German OOB does'nt have that many left.

2. The scenarios would need changing

3. Possible consquences on other OOBs using MC units.

Worth the bother I ask you all? Opinions please......

On a similar vain has anyone looked into the accuracy of the other german Recce units or played around with a Kubelwagon mounted recce force?

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

np, here it comes. I already posted about the performance - I'm quite happy with it! You'll find the relevant units versus the ent of the OOB, Formations also, but I didn't create many variations in the case of the units as there's a lack of empty unit slots. Note also that I made various other changes to this OOB - mostly in-service dates, as well as creation of Befehlswagen IV...

I suggest you rename the OOB to some of the empty R&D slots and then you copy it into the game data file - that way you can copy the stuff from my oob into yours without replacing the whole thing.

Have fun!

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

shan,

fair enough. I wasn't really thinking of it for myeself. Rather it would have been good to let other folks out there give us some feedback.

While looking into the kubelwagons I found a pic on the Axis history forum website. looks kinda weird. an armoured kubel wagon......

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good day eh

Sitrep, on my MC Experimental and the two units I cobbled together. The MC's are working fine as is the MC/Spahwagen Unit, the MC/Kubel Combo not so good, the Kubel's don't last or runaway, not an endearing asset for Recce Units.

As for the OOB, I will post it, (I'm not at home right now) it has many MODS so don't use for scenario/campaign. I do believe that I'm going take Shan's advice and create PanzerBob's Army (Next Campaign) so to speak; it will stop switching files all the time. DOH! Why didn't I think of that! LOL

Eternal War (gaming), PanzerBob http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Here you go Ian

I'm off to war, PanzerBob

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Panzer Bob,

Thanks for posting your mod. I'd hope we could generate some interest in this in order to put the ideas to the designers but it doesn't look promising There hasn't exactly been much feedback from other users. I'm curretnly going through the scenarios to see how many involve German MC units as DRG suggested.

I'll try out your reece mod and let you know how i get on when I have the time.

If your reading this and have any thoughts folks regarding German MC or recce units then please but pen to paper!

regards

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Has anyone tested my Kradschuetzen? I see one download so far... again, a few details may be adapted but, now that I got real good TO%E data, my Kradschuetzenkompanie is as historically correct as I could get to it - weapons, size of squads, effective combat strength etc...

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Shan,

I've downloaded your mod but I'm afriad the real world may get in the way of me trying it out for at least a week but will report back when I've given it a go. Sure would be nice to get some feed back from other users to see how much interest there is in what you and Pzbob have been doing.

Regards

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good day, Shan

As matter of fact, I've been looking at your MODs but wanted to trial them before I got back to you. I flashed up a small battle to field test them, and liked what I was able to do with them, I'm going to incorparate them into my Mod OOB for my next campaign.

IMHO, I think some change breaking them into single bikes or some single bikes would be good.

But at least we have the MOBHACK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Eternal War(gaming) PanzerBob http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

A little late on this one I know, but would it be possible for you guys to post your mods in .zip format. After a bad experience, I'm afraid I'll have nothing to do with .rar, but would really like to see what you've modded.

Thanks.

Richard H

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Good day Richard,

Attached is my current German OOB besides the MC's it has many other Mods. So careful where you put it, hope this is some help to you.

Cheers

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hello again Richard

Tried to send it diguised as a jpg doesn't seem to have worked. Anyway I'm attaching a rar if you want, I don't have Zip anymore.

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

I just now got around to this item on my "to-do" list so I apologize up front for not dealing with this when it was posted

Shan..... you really didn't check very many OOB's when you wrote this did you ? Did you check the MC units in the Slovak Republic OOB ? Canada ? Czechoslovakia ? Hungary ? All have size 2 MC units. How about Sweden or Bulgaria or Manchukuo ? All have size two MC units as do France, Vichy France, Japan, the POL Motorcycle in the Norwegian OOB, Yugoslavia, Belgium, Romania and Netherlands.

So......Germany is hardy "the only ones having size 2" MC units is it ? Half the nations in the game have MC units that are size 2

The general rule of thumb used was if over 10 men the size would be 2 and under that 1. There were some exceptions and those are being looked at but there are nearly 4 dozen MC units in the game right now with size 2

It's fine to debate the merits of changing this. That's what the forum is for. The concept of breaking the MC units down to carry units that can dismount to fight is interesting and this game is made to be adapted and modified but would it be TOO MUCH to ask before making sweeping statements like " German MC sections are AFAIK the only ones having size 2" that at a BIT more effort be put into checking the other OOB's first?


Don

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

DRG - thanks for your feedback on this subject. Sweeping generalisations apart is there a realisitc possibility of changing the way mc units work in the game? I can see that any alteration to having dismountable mc units would then also have consquneces on push bike and cavalry units and would note doubt require much work on your part, worht the effort I ask?

If the concept is of interest to you is there any kind of referance material or evidence we can hep you with?

As an aside to any one else reading this does anyone have any infomation on how nations other than Germany used thier MC units?

Regards

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

I have already added dismountable MC units and formations to this OOB. That's as far as I plan to go with this for this next patch and the code has been altered so that the game will load MC "passengers" in an auto deploy situation or if they are given to the AI to use but right now I have no plans to put them on the AI's picklist.

Once the Patch is released everyone can have a go at telling me how they would have done it differently.

Don

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Don

Thanks for your efforts, I look foward to the next patch! Don't be so cynical anyhow! You guys do a great job and you can't worry about pleasing every one all of the time as the saying goes!

Regards

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Just a quick thank you for the work done on the Krad units in the German order of battle in the new patch. They play well and are just what I was hoping for.

thanks guys

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Thanks for pointing that out, blitzkreig - I just downloaded the new patch and was about to re-mod my version of the dismount-capable Kradschuetzen when I read your post - I'm pleased to see that my version has largely been adapted and some other minor corrections have been incorporated in the new German OOB. Great job!

(last night my PC broke down, with all my OOBs and much more important stuff on it and I only got saves of some of my files... I hope the hard-drive is still ok - if not, I'm screwed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif()

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

We started to look at the way Bicycle infantry is handled in the game after all the other work had been done but there were code and scenario issues that would have involved extensive testing that would have either delayed the release or forced us to rush testing neither of which we were willing to do so that is a change that will have to wait.

Don

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

Hope to give the new mod a test under combat soon!

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

I'm already happy with the new Kradschuetzen model, I never tried the bicycle infantry but I suppose currently they are fast but must be very vulnerable due to having size=2, just like cavalry. If you go the same way as with the motorcycle units and give them bicycle transports, this would do the trick, but concerning their movement rating I wonder if a satisfactory solution can be found - better just leave them as normal infantery but maybe reduced to size=1 and retain the higher movement rating.
For cavalry, I usually use a combination of cavalry transports, loaded with normal infantry just like in the case of my Krad infantry, plus a few permanently-mounted cav scouts, the type of guys who never leave their saddle, not even for eating, peeing or sleeping ;-).

Re: German Motorcycles and their Units
 

I must say I too am pleased with the new Kradschuetzen units. Much better and useable than the idea I had come up with. I've blooded them in combat and they seem to behave much like I would image them to. I even have one unit which has worked it's way back into my enemy's rear area and taken out several 5.5in Guns, wish I could say the rest of the battle is going that well, but It's not over yet, (it's a PBEM campaign). Mounting and dismounting their MC's is nice and seamless and I like the fact the drivers are armed too. This is something my idea had missed altogether. All and all I now find them a much more useful addition to my KG’s

Hope you don’t tire of hearing this but another job well done BZ!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif