MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Note: This is not finished yet. For now this is just where I'm going to gather my ideas for this mod. I'm gonna need some help with this mod, so I encourage you to post your comments and ideas here as well.

Here's what I have to go on so far:

"Al-Murrah is a confederation of semi-nomadic human tribes united by their unshakable faith in their new god. Shieks, or wise-men are the tribal leaders of the Bedouin tribes of desert dwellers. The new government, the Caliphate, based on the teachings of the new god, rules over the various Bedouin tribes. Mamluks are slave-soldiers of conquered lands. While not always accustomed to desert climes, Mamluks are all very skilled warriors."

Race: Humans, Wasteland Survival, Prefers heat scale +2
Military: Versatile light infantry and cavalry. Medium camel cavalry. Medium Mamluk infantry and cavalry. Sacred versions of many units.
Magic: Fire, Air, Astral, some Water
Priests: Powerful

--------

Bedouins are humans with Wasteland Survival, high morale, average martial skill and light to medium-light armor. Ansar Warriors are Bedouins typically armed with scimitars, bucklers and bows or javelins.

Ansar Riders use light armor, light lances and javelins or scimitars and bows and are mounted on fast horses.

Camel Riders are mounted on slower camels and have medium armor, falchions and heavier shields. Despite their slow speed and heavier armor, all camels have a strategic move of 3. (I'd like them to have a reduced supply cost, but I was wondering if that was possible at all.).

Ansar Zealots are more expensive, sacred versions of the Ansar Warriors and Riders.

Bedouin Shieks are wise-men and leaders of the Bedouin tribes. They are mounted on camels and use weak water magic to seek out oases so their tribes can eat and drink when food and water become scarce. They have decent leadership capabilities as well, but are not good combatants.

Mamluk Warriors are tough, skilled and armed with mid-heavy armor and shields. However, they lack ranged weapons and Wasteland Survival of the Ansar Warriors and Riders. Mamluk Zealots are also sacred like the Ansar Zealots.

--------

So far this is all I have. I need more details on the Caliphate, more commanders and possibly some more units. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Strategies, national spells, more units/commanders, anything, put it here. I will attach the mod when it is done.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

The sacred units should benefit from Sakina - religious fearlessness. Morale 30.

Here are some other units that we came up with in brainstorming for another arab mod. I was going to use this stuff for late era so you'd probably want to change the magic.

(sufis)
* Dervish. Capital only berserking sacred.
* Murshid. A priest/mage, H1. WSN plus 100% from WSN plus 10% from WSN. Capital only, berserker (like Dervishes.) You get a hero version who is bigger.

(assassins)
* Ainsarii. Capital only stealthy sacred. No poison!
* Hashshasin. A priest/assassin/mage, H1. Capital only, has D, is crazy bad-***. No poison!

(actual islamic clerical titles, mix of traditions though)
* Imam. A priest/general, mounted, H4, has a standard, large leadership. Is a hero.
* Ulema. A priest/philosopher, H2, makes research.
* Mufti. A priest/judge, H3, has a patrol bonus. Capital only, maybe has a chance of death magic?
* Qadi. A priest/judge, H1, has a patrol bonus.

And given that Alchemy is an arabic word, they should get an alchemist.
* Alchemist. A mage. FED, 100% FED, 10% FED. Forge bonus, alchemy bonus. You get a hero version who also has blood and astral - he's eeeeevil.

I'll gladly help you with mod-script if you don't know how to make any of these units (the Ulema needs to copystats on the EA Arco philosopher.)

Anyway, go ahead and take any of this that is helpful - I've got plenty of other mods I want to work on so I'm not keen on doing arabs myself if someone else wants to do it.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

This sounds really interesting to me. Both the theme and the units. I was about to suggest Fire/Air as main magic paths, but re-reading the first post it looks like you had the same thought.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I've also given some thought to an Arab mod, kinda different from where this one is going though. IMO the magic could go any way you want it - even Nature is possible, consider a priest/mage Marabout unit with high leadership.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Interesting stuff.

If I get around to making my MA turkish/askari influenced nation it could make for some good scraps.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Thanks for posting your ideas. I do like Dr.P's ideas for Sakina and the various clerics and I've decided I can use them.

And Dr.P, I would be so eternally grateful if you would help me with the coding. It's not really that I'm bad at it, it's just that it takes so long to do and I'd rather spend that time making the sprites. I'm actually very good at it too. Attached is the first sprite I made for this mod (in .png format), the Ansar Warrior, based off of the Marverni Scout sprite and edited pretty much pixel by pixel.

This particular one uses a bow and a leather cuirass, but I have a version that uses javelins and versions that use ring mail armor as well.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...r500/ansar.png

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Yeah, it looks nice. What do you want coded?

Oh, I also did some Jinn and Ifrit national summons for Abyssia (they're in my Black Tome mod.) The Jinn needs new artwork (I shrunk down a picture of Genie from the TV show, on a lark) but you should be able to use the code.

Actually, the jinn should probably be cavalry, since the Qu'ran specifically mentions their mounts.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Pretty much everything really. I'll think up the stats for the units and send you the sprites and all you'd have to is plug them in. I can make new sprites for the Jinn and Ifrit you have as well. As I said before I really appreciate your help, Dr.

Also I've been wondering. Equipment for units has a set resource cost now, so does it automatically add the item's resource cost to a unit when it is coded in? (Ex. Say a weapon I make up costs 4 resources and I say the unit I put t on costs 1 resource. When I play the game, will the unit cost 5 resources or 1?)

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

The resource costs are figured automatically.

In general, all human units should have an intrinsic resource cost of 1, except for heavy cavalry, who pay something like 15-20 resource points for barding, which you have to input yourself.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Can i suggest some ideas, being an arab myself i find it weird the game is lacking a distinct arabic faction (its a great game nonetheless), and i find this mod really interesting.

I'll list 3 ages to reflect some history, Tribal (Early), Imperial/Caliphate (Middle), and Taifa (Late).

For the Early Age(Tribal Age) the Al Murrah are a tribal confederation, with units more or less exclusively arab (reflecting on actual history)

Tribal Warband:basic infantry unit armed with swords, leather armor, javelins and large wooden shields.

Shiekh: Though i like your description, i'd still say sheikhs vary, some of them are warlike and like to lead from the frontlines and some hang in the back preferring to not fight.

Ansari: Remain unchanged, good light cavalry.

Camel Riders: unchanged, your description fits.

For the Imperial/Caliphate age, the Al Murrah start augmenting their army with non-arab, and slave troops as mentioned above Dervish (mountain people, primarly kurds) and Mameluke (turkish slave troops), though if you wouldn't mind i have better sacred name versions:

Sacred version of the Dervish could be the Serwan Peshmerga (Death Soldier) they reach a point where they totally cast away any fears they have and are pretty much crazy naked berserkers.

Sacred version of Mamelukes can be Fursan Al Halqa (Knights of the Ring, literally), a better armored version of their predecessor and improved generally.

Jund: Better armed armored version of tribal warbands.

Cataphracts: Heavily armored riders, though not to be confused with byzantine or sassanid ones, the arabian ones had leather lamellar armor mostly and leather barding.

To reflect the Caliphates centralisation, units will be lead by Qaed(Captain) which is an upgraded sheikh.

For the last age the Taifa, the Al Murrah have degenerated and become squabbling kingdoms of princes (Amir) and governors (Wali) without a central leader, they rely mostly on mercenaries and primarily non-native troops. Mamelukes and Dervish units will be present, aswell as:

Askari: drilled and organised heavy infantry, they use spears, metallic shields and chainmail or iron lamellar.

Lancer: armored with chainmail, lance and adarga shield (heart shaped shield)

Thats about it for now, these are just some ideas i have gathered for this mod to be used or not at all, i'm pretty new at the game and i have no idea how i could balance this all, so i'll leave it for the mod author to assign whatever he sees fit. If you like this, i'll provide more information with mythological units such as Djinns, Selbouhs, Ghuls, Ifreet etcetera and some wacky stuff like flying carpets and dancing ropes in my next post :p i'm not sure if its possible to fit these in the game though.

Hope you like it :p

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I'd shy away from using real world terms like Bedouin and possibly Mamluk.

I would go for pure fire and air as their magic paths. It's a good combination, is vaguely thematic and isn't 'taken'. Yes, they could legitimately have pretty much any magic path, but it's the same for all the nations. Plus, I tend to think nations with focused magic are more fun to play and easier to balance.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

the words are just arab meanings for terms like Desert Nomad and Slave Soldier respectively, i do not see whats wrong with that, since Ermor and other roman based nations already use terms like Hastatus and Accensus which were originally latin terms for their soldiers.

though if you mean to go for more originality i guess i could help with that i guess

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I agree 100% with wizzil - if the nation is modeled after the historical arab military, it's fine to use arabic terms for the military units.

I could see how someone might have a problem with islamic names for the various types of cleric - but the game has oodles of "bishops" in it, not to mention deacons, a few other religion-specific clerical titles.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

For some reason I had thought that Bedouin had a discrete ethnic meaning, but after checking, it doesn't seem to. So consider that objection shelved.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

In response to Wizz, thanks a lot for the ideas, but right now, I'm mainly just focusing on getting the MA nation done first. If this goes well, I'll consider making EA and LA versions later.

I would like you to enlighten me a bit on the role of Dervishes. Everything I've read said that Sufi Dervishes were humble priests rather than fanatic whirling killers. I'd like to know where that idea came from and why. I would also like some info on the mythological creatures you mentioned. Also I'm thinking that instead of FED alchemists, they would be FES instead as I've read that alchemy also includes the study of astrology to a lesser extent.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Does it matter where the idea came from? It's a modern myth, like the ninja.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

There are several sects of dervishes that perform a whirling dance (or other moving meditation) while carrying swords, probably for symbolic purposes. Maybe some of them would also fight this way but I kinda doubt it.

Anyway, other (completely different?) sufis developed a formidable reputation as highly elite light cavalry, and the two descriptions were somehow merged in the west. Or so I have been told.

Anyway, as Sombre points out, like all mammals, Sufis can be cruel *or* totally awesome.

Given the close links in practice (if not in doctrine) between sufi sects and far-eastern religions, I do think WSN is the right magic for sufi practitioners.

You could legitimately give alchemists almost any combination of magic paths you wanted. If you want to be historical, they viewed themselves as a continuation of greek traditions, so you could give them the same mix of magic as an arcoscephale mystic, or something similar. Fire/air would certainly work.

The choice of death magic reflects a lovecraftian influence - HP Lovecraft loved arabic folklore, although the state of scholarship in the early 20th century was fairly primitive.

Anyway, all that "calling forth from dead saltes" stuff that HPL goes on about has alchemical roots, and it's really cool, so I think alchemists should do that. I'm sure that astrology played a bigger role than necromancy in alchemic practice, but - the purpose of alchemy is to flip and out and kill people.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

DrPraetorious provides a rather nice discription, though may i add for game purposes they can be like berserkers fighting in a whirlwind like motion.

I'll get on with the mythological creatures:

Djinn: the basic type of otherworldy creature in middle eastern mythology, they can be taken in any direction and have many other "castes", though the basic djinn is usually considered as some sort of air spirit or tied to the air element generally.

Marid: Coastal Djinn, huge in size, usually cruel creatures that torture their prey by asking almost impossible riddles before eating them whole.

Efreet: Generally small djinn, their size may reach that of a human, very fiery in nature and destructive.

Selbouh: not related to the djinn, a sentient froglike creature with big eyes, usually they stalk their pray in rivers, skewering them with spears and dragging them into the bottom of the river to consume them.

Ghul: formerly they were human, but madness has destroyed their minds, they usually dig out graves and eat the corpses within them.

i haven't played much yet of the game to give the units roles, so i'll leave it to the author, seeing how djinns generally vary they can fit in pretty much everything (like for instance Ifreets as skirmisher type of units, firing flaming arrows and fighting with swords enchanted with fire), maybe have them conjured as some sort of national magic that depends on the school of magic you take.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I made an effort to incorporate Jinn and Efreet into some of dominions3's own unique mythology. Obviously these descriptions will have to be changed if they are not national summons for Abyssia, but I wanted your feedback on the general ideas.

On the stats for Jinn etc.:
* They are made from smokeless fire, so they are ethereal, and immune to fire damage.
* They have the ability to become invisible, maybe shape change, etc. - best compromise, give them glamour. Possibly flight, as well.
* Jinn derives from a term meaning something like "hidden", so give them stealth.
* They live on dust, and their mounts eat bones and dung (or was it the other way around?). Anyway, they don't need supplies.
* They are extremely long lived, at least a thousand years maxage - but not immortal.
* Solomon had an army of them by virtue of his ability to communicate with anything (or am I misreading this?) Anyway, the question of communication suggests that they require magic leadership (and thus are magic beings.)

The Abyssians are the children of Rhuax, the lord of Magma. So, I thought the Jinn should, by extension be the children of Catharsis (lord of smokeless fire) who becomes Anthrax, lord of bane fire, in dominions3's own internal mythology. The "good" jinn hide themselves from humans mainly out of fear and shame, they fight with more or less regular weapons, while the "bad" jinn, ifrit, marids, whatever you call them, followed their father into the underworld, and fight with blasts of banefire.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

if this is directed at me, just one error, Solomon had the djinns becuase it was granted to him by god, his communication with non-humans came from his father King David (if i recall correctly).

Everything else sounds good and meshes well with the Dominions mythology imo.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

What about the jinns' mounts? do they have any unusual characteristics? You said they were mentioned in the Koran, so I flipped through a copy they had at my school library, but I probably missed it.

Also, say I wanted to make the Dervish berserkers do something different when blessed, like some of Mictlan's units. I was thinking when blessed and wounded, they would start to attack faster, simulated by them transforming into a state with higher Attack and AP as well as giving them weapons with extra attacks (ie. making a weapon identical to a scimitar, but with 2 attacks rather than 1). If it is at all possible, how would I do this?

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I saw some artwork depicting jinn riding around on sort-of cloud whale things. I don't know if that's a common depiction, but it looked cool. I'm having trouble finding it (mostly getting the dude from star wars I.)

I'm also having trouble finding the passage in question as well. It might talk about their animals insead of their mounts.

The wikipedia article says "animals" so maybe my recollection is wrong.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Edit: Nevermind, I was gonna ask for a link, but I just noticed you said you were having trouble. As far as I know Jar-Jar has little to do with jinn....

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Just chiming in to say I'm very much looking forward to this mod. There does seem to be a lack of arabic stuff, which is a shame considering how much magic there is in the mythology. Alchemy should be a focus, as long as it's different from Arco's.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Cool...my arab mod fell apart. as did my ottoman empire mod. For the Ottomans i was thinking Janissaries as sacred units who drew strength from enemy dominion but didn't know how to do that and just gave up. yay

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

That's impossible, unless one of the devs decided that it should be added to the game. The best that could be done with the current system would be to make Janissaries benefit from scales that the Ottomans wouldn't take (say, +att/def/str in cold, while Ottomans prefer Heat), or by making Janissaries superior fighters with severe negative abilities (say, each increases unrest by 3 in the province they are in and each has negative supply bonus 2, so that they have to stay in big provinces, pillage, or get magical support to keep from starving, but keeping them in your rich provinces would be disastrous).

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Here's an idea: What if I make some national priest spells that mimic some of the effects of spells my nation might not have access to? For instance, I had their main focus around Fire, Air, Astral and light Water, Say I make a national priest spell (probably H3 or 4), that gives some of my units extra protection, or the effects of elemental fortitude? Also, is it possible to create dual-path spells with priest magic as one of the paths?

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

It is possible to create dual-path spells with H, yes.

I'd recommend against giving them extra holy spells that mimic something that isn't highly tied to their religion - the *only* bonus holy spells that anyone gets in the basic game are undead-boosters and anti-enemy-sacred-unit spells. If you had a nation that worshipped demons or magic beings I think demon or magic-being boosting spells would conform to the general pattern for other nations, but otherwise, they're a little difficult to justify.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Well is it possible to make the spells only affect specific units on my side, like all Jinn or some Sacred units on my side only would be affected?

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

You can restrict a spell to only work on sacred magic-beings, which would mean it would only affect Jinn.

However, such spells in the basic game (e.g. Music of the Spheres) are generally not holy. If you wanted to make one Holy I'd say it would conform to the general pattern, though.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Well here's what I have on units so far. I am still in the process of making sprites for all these guys, but schoolwork is getting in the way, so that's why it's taking so long.

Please let me know if any of the titles or abilities I have are wrong, or could be different, especialliy regarding the Jinn.

[Weapons/Armor]
(Special Abilities)
{Magic Skills}



Units:

Desert Bandit: [Scimitar/Turban, Leather Hauberk] (Waste Surv., Stealth +0)
Ansar Warrior [Scimitar, Composite Bow/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Cuirass] (Waste Surv.)
Ansar Zealot [Scimitar, Composite Bow/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Cuirass] (Waste Surv. Sacred)
Ansar Warrior [Scimitar, Javelin/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Hauberk] (Waste Surv.)
Ansar Zealot [Scimitar, Javelin/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Hauberk] (Waste Surv. Sacred)
Ansar Rider [Spear, Composite Bow/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Cuirass] (Waste Surv. Mounted)
Ansar Zealot [Spear, Composite Bow/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Cuirass] (Waste Surv. Mounted, Sacred)
Ansar Rider [Scimitar, Javelin/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Hauberk] (Waste Surv. Mounted)
Ansar Zealot [Scimitar, Javelin/Turban, Buckler, Ring Mail Hauberk] (Waste Surv. Mounted, Sacred)
Camel Rider [Falchion/Turban, Shield, Scale Mail Cuirass] (Waste Surv. Mounted, Reduced Supply cost)
Mamluk [Falchion/Iron Cap, Shield, Scale Mail Cuirass]
Fursan Al Halqa [Falchion/Iron Cap, Shield, Scale Mail Hauberk] (Sacred)
Mamluk Rider [Falchion, Hoof/Iron Cap, Shield, Scale Mail Cuirass] (Mounted)
Fursan Al Halqa [Falchion, Hoof/Iron Cap, Shield, Scale Mail Hauberk] (Mounted, Sacred)
Dervish [Scimitar x2/Leather Cuirass] (Mtn Surv. Sacred, Berserk +3, Ambidexterous 3)

Djinn [Falchion, Composite Bow/Turban, Buckler] (Sacred, Mounted, Need Not Eat, Magic Being, Flying, Ethereal, Fire Immune, Cold Immune, Glamour, Summoned)
Efreet [Scimitar x2, Throw Flames] (Sacred, Heat, Need Not Eat, Magic Being, Ethereal, Fire Immune, Fire Shield, Ambidexterous 3, Glamour, Summoned)
Marid [Claw, Claw, Bite] (Sacred, Need Not Eat, Magic Being, Ethereal, Amphibious, Fire Immune, Cold Immune, Glamour, Summoned)



Commanders:

Bandit Lord [Scimitar/Turban, Leather Hauberk] (Waste Surv., Stealthy +0, ok leader)
Ansar Captain [Scimitar, Composite Bow/Turban, Buckler, Scale Mail Cuirass] (Mounted, Waste Surv. ok leader)
Mamluk Captain [Falchion/Iron Cap, Shield, Scale Mail Hauberk] (Mounted, good leader)
Shiekh: [Quarterstaff/Turban] {H1/W1} (Sacred, Mounted, Waste Surv., Reduced supply cost, ok leader, near Old Age)
Rohani: [Dagger/Turban] {H1/F1 +10% FASW} (Sacred, Waste Surv.)
Ayatollah: [Dagger/Turban] {H2/F2/A1 +100% FASW +10% FASW} (Sacred, Waste Surv., Old age)
Allamah: [Dagger/Turban] {H3/F2/A2/S1 +100% FASW +10% FASW +10% FASW} (Sacred, Waste Surv., Adv. Old age, Cap Only)
Ulema: [Dagger/Turban] {H2} (Sacred, Waste Surv., Old age, makes 5 Res)
Qadi: [Dagger/Turban] {H1} (Sacred, Waste Surv., Patrol +10)
Mufti: [Dagger/Turban] {H2 +10% SD} (Sacred, Waste Surv., Old age, Patrol +30, Cap Only)
Alchemist: [Dagger/Turban] {F1/E1/D1 +10% FESD} (Waste Surv., Alchemy Bonus, +3 Res, near Old Age)



Sites

The Stone of God (Unique Site, Holy) (+2F/+1A/+1S, homerecruit Allamah, Mufti)
The Mountains of Kird (Unique Site, Air) (+1A, homerecruit all Fursan Al Halqa, Dervish)

New Armor: Turban
prot: 3, head
def: 0

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Seems good. However, the sites won't work as you've written them. Sites can only have 4 or 5 effects on them, and each different gemtype generated is counted as one effect. If you check out Abysia's Smouldercone site, you'll notice that only the MA version spreads heat - the devs ran out of place in the EA and LA versions, due to there being more capital-only units. I am pretty sure the limit is 5, so you'd have to move one gemtype or one recruitable from the Stone to the Mountains.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Alright then:

The Stone of God (Unique Site, Holy) (+2F/+1A/+1S, homerecruit Allamah, Mufti)
The Mountains of Kird (Unique Site, Air) (+1A, homerecruit all Fursan Al Halqa, Dervish)

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

The only way for non-magician units to do research is to copystats off of the Philosopher - so their research is Sloth dependent. Is that okay?

Patrol bonuses are not directly modable, I have to get patrolbonuses by copystats off of other units, and may not be able to get +10 and +30, might have to be some other value - especially if you don't want the units to have forest survival or other funny powers.

Turbans are helmets, what prot and resource cost do you want? Is it okay if we call them Imama, instead?

No glamour on the Jinn?

Otherwise, what do you want for profiles? I'll script this up shortly. I'd suggest -

(default profile) all stats 10, ap 12, but morale 11. Everyone gets this unless otherwise noted.
(ansar profile) att 11, def 11, str 11.
(zealot profile) att 12, def 11, str 11, morale 30.
(mamluk, fursan) hp 12, att 12, def 11, str 12, morale 13/30.
(dervish) att 13, def 16, str 11, ap 15.
(cavalry) ap 22.
(camel cavalry) ap 18.

I'll let you fill it in otherwise.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I don't think I want them to be Sloth-dependant. Just give them S1 and a research bonus and we'll call it a day.

I don't really know what other powers they might have instead. Could you look around a bit and see what guys have patrol bonuses without funny stuff? I'll choose the value from there. Someone ought to tell them to put that modding command in 3.10.

I had a feeling I forgot something on them. Would that be on all of them, or just the Djinn?

The profiles you have look good, but I think I'd want the Ansar horses to be AP 26 instead.

Turban would be just 3 head prot and 0 resources.

And profiles for the jinn are as follows:

Djinn: Size: 3, HP: 26, Str: 16, Prot: 10, Att: 14, Def: 14, Prec: 13, Mor: 30, MR: 16, Enc: 1, Mv: 3/20

Efreet: Size: 2, HP: 20, Prot: 10, Str: 14, Att: 15, Def: 14, Prec: 12, Mor: 30, MR: 16, Enc: 1, Mv: 2/16

Marid: Size: 4, HP: 55, Str: 24, Prot: 15, Att: 12, Def: 12, Prec: 10, Mor: 30, MR: 16, Enc: 1, Mv: 2/16


I'd also like multihero versions of the jinn. You could add 1 to their Att and Def values I think and give them magic. A3, S3 to the Djinni, F3, S3 to the Efreet and W3, S3 to the Marids.


Thanks a bunch for you help BTW, Dr. I promise, I'll have the sprites up as soon as I can.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I think there are variants of turbans worn during warfare which offer somewhat more protection than that - in any case, it ought to be at least as good as leather hat (prot 6.)

I think all three varieties of Djinn should have glamour, myself - but I can see an argument either way.

Keeper of the Bridge gives patrol bonus of 50 - I can strip of magic and pretenderhood but you still have darkvision and have to wear chest armor.
A copystats off the "Judge" (unit 1645) gives a patrol bonus of 20 - I can strip off the magic.
The Eunuch (805) gives a patrol bonus of 15, but also stealth.
The Eye of teh Lord (896) gives a patrol bonus of 15, but also forest srvival.
The Censor (1655) gives a patrol bonus of 10, but also some kind of armor (can be replaced but not removed, unless I set "armor 0" a bunch of times and then he can't have a turban either, I don't think) and undead leadership.
Other patrollers:
Watcher is immobile.
Heroine is female, mounted, armored.
Celestial Hound is magicbeing, flying.
Great Eagle is flying.
Sentinel is magicbeing.
Granite Guardian is magicbeing, inanimate.
Forester has survivals, stealth, etc.
Attentive Statue is a magicbeing.
A few other units have patrol bonuses < 5.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Consider somewhat more weapon diversity.

The Falchions and Scimitars (which I coded as a +1 attack, +1 resource cost short sword) are the most famous weapons, but they also used lances, battle axes, maces/morning stars and ball-and-chain weapons.

http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sc...r/Weapons.html
http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sc.../Weapons2.html

This also suggests some cool national spells - an area of effect buff to give your units fire shield would be pretty sweet.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Attachments don't work - can you PM me with an e-mail address so I can send you drafts?

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Yeah, I don't want any funny stuff on them, just copy the Qadi and Mufti off the Judge and clear the magic. I will also see what I can do about that spell you mentioned.

As for weapons, I can go with that. Give the Camels and mounted Mamluks and Fursans Lances in addition to their swords, and give Light Lances to the Ansar riders instead of spears. Give the Camels the Ansar profile as well. Code in some more normal Mamluk infantry too, and give them Spears, Morningstars and Axes in place of their Falchions. Also, give the Fursans something called a Damascus Blade and give it 8 dmg, 1 att, 1 def and 2 len in addition to an appropriate resource cost.

How much more gold do you think you would pay for unbreakable sacreds?


This is starting to look like a really good nation to use a super-bless strategy for...I like it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Okay, I'll make those changes and e-mail you a file useful for viewing units and stats.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

+

=

Unstoppable. Completely.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Not so - well, maybe the Marid. Longbows + flaming arrows could make short work of them (depending on how much they cost individually.) Also, put an eye of the void on a ether lord and have him lead his men into battle. It depends greatly on how much they cost and on how high they are in the research tree. If they come out at conjuration 9 - your opponent had better be able to come up with a level 9 combat spell to deal with them or he doesn't deserve to win.

Anyway, I agree that writeup is a bit extreme - it's a rought draft. For starters I'd like to reduce their Prot and remove the cold immunity. Would that help?

Also, no "awake" Marid, only troops - the folkloric basis for a distinction between Marid and Efreet is a bit lost on me, and the whole "water jinn" thing makes of Dungeons and Dragons.

I'm going to send a draft with combat stats soon, had to do some stuff for my folks yesterday and didn't get to finish.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Depends from many things. Item slots being most notqble. If they CAN'T wear body armor, their prot is way too low. They are missing boots already, losing the body would make them like the nagas of DomII, or Scorpion King without Earth.

Etherealness and Glamour is a nasty combination, though. Just Glamour would probably be enough, perhaps combined with a 1-hp ethereal "cloud of sand/dust/mist" ghost form like that of Oni of EA Oni Kings.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Yeah, I had a feeling the ethereal/glamour combo was a bit much...I'm okay with losing the etheral and Cold resistance bit. You can reduce the Prot as well if you want. I had planned to get them at Conj 5, Perhaps 6 for the Marid, using A3/F3/W3 and S3 as paths. I planned to ritual summon 1 at a time as units rather than commanders for 20 gems apiece. How would I change their stats to make them cost efficient, or do I need to change the spell levels/path levels/gem cost to balance it out?

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I don't think ethereal/glamour is that bad, as long as they have a base prot of 0. At that rate, they'd be shadow vestels with glamour - which would make them great units, but hardly unstoppable. As beings made of smokeless fire they really should have both, I think.

Again, I dislike water jinn, I'd think this'd be a good progression:
(Conj 4) Jinn - Fire / Astral
(Conj 5) Efreet - Fire / Death
(Conj 6) Annointed of Catharsis - Fire / Astral, but gets FASN.
(Conj 7) Marid (a giant Efreet) - Fire / Death
(Conj 8) Annointed of Anthrax - Fire / Death, but gets FASD.

The Conj 6 and Conj 8 units would be quite scary on thugability, but that's okay.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

DrPraetorius - Marid is aspesifically a Water-based djinn. While Fire/Death summon might fit the nation's general theme better, it shouldn't be called Marid!

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Only in dungeons and dragons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Marid#Disputed

Marid is an arabic word generally translated as "Devil", sometimes "Giant", "Ogre", etc. Westerners decided that it must be somehow related to the western word Marine, and thus to water - but this isn't true, it's cognate to other Semitic words meaning "rebellious".

In 1,001 arabian nights, Marids are simpler bigger and more powerful Efreet.

Read this too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

Now, I know that we're not constrained to use "authentic" folklore, and that we can use four-element jinn if we want to go to western sources, just like we don't have to use "authentic" ninja or alchemists or anything else.

However, in this case, I think it'd be much better to use the more folklorically accurate Jinn from the Qu'ran - who are all made out of smokeless fire.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

I stand corrected. I didn't think of D&D, spesifically, but fantasy literature and some other games. Thanks for the correction.

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

In order to make this easier on me, do you mind if I just copy the Djinn and Efreet from the Black Tome, Doc?

Re: MA: Al-Murrah: Desert Dwellers
 

Not at all. I'm going to e-mail you something later today - sorry for the delay, it was a weird week.