? on AIs
 

Are there any AIs out there who actually design & build Baseships?

Do the AIs try to put 6 engines on a dreadnaught, and just quit when they reach the max engines per ship?

Where are the AI files for the default races located?


For P&N v2, the propulsion system will change, so I need to know how many engines AIs will try to add, and how to change them if things go wrong. Also, I don't want the AIs to try building battlemoons improperly http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: ? on AIs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Where are the AI files for the default races located?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't know about your other questions, but the default AI files are in \Space Empires IV\Ai

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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
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not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: ? on AIs
 

Oops. I already found that. I meant the AIs that come with the game.

The default stuff has nothing for researching the racial techs, so the Phong in my games are obviously getting their research and design plans elsewhere...

Re: ? on AIs
 

They're in ..\Space Empires 4\Pictures\Races\name of race\

Re: ? on AIs
 

Thanks. Seems like a wierd place to put the AI files... they're not anything like pictures after all.

Re: ? on AIs
 

The AI, can't say for sure they were default with all the great mods, will definately build Baseships. I think it just takes a long time for most of them to research Baseships. Try a high tech start to see their designs.

Re: ? on AIs
 

The AI can build everything which is in the specific ..._AI_DesignCreation.txt, right? This brings up another one of my questions: Has anybody of you ever tried to add the stations with cables/plates/sphereworld creation to see if the AI would use it (maybe in 1000 turns with low maintenance and all planets are colonized or such)?

I have searched several of the files for these stations but haven't found them yet.

Re: ? on AIs
 

I managed to get the EA to build a couple of baseships once, but I did so much tinkering with the files that I had to replace them with the defaults from the TDM modpack though due to problems.

I'm not sure it would be worthile to get the AI to build ring/sphere world components, mostly because I'm not sure they would actually build them all in the right place. I also have a feeling that when you told the AI to build 10 HD Cable bases it might build them but all over the place instead of at one location. I'm not certain though since I haven't seen the AI crank out too many SY ships or do anything useful with the ones it does make.

Re: ? on AIs
 

...so nobody has really tried it so far, because everyone presumes the AI to be too dumb to make reasonable use of it? Ok, the original races don't come with design_creation base stations for dyson worlds, this COULD be a sign that the AI is not prepared for that, but is it really proved yet? Mmmmmmhhh...

Re: ? on AIs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
...so nobody has really tried it so far, because everyone presumes the AI to be too dumb to make reasonable use of it? Ok, the original races don't come with design_creation base stations for dyson worlds, this COULD be a sign that the AI is not prepared for that, but is it really proved yet? Mmmmmmhhh...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right I have never tried to let the AI build a sphere- or ringworlds. But I had all needed elements under construction, when I turned an empire to computer control. The AI scrapped everything and there was no lack of resources!
To construct ring- or sphereworlds the AI would have to send a space yard ship to a star, construct space yard bases there (10 for ringworld, 20 for sphereworld), start building the ring- or sphereworld placement component, then start at the right time to construct the cables and platings, so that erverything is ready at the same time together. This would be a whole computer program for its own.
May be this will be implemented in a patch for Version 1.3486!

Re: ? on AIs
 

Baseships - All the AI needs in order to build baseships is the correct level of research (which seems to stop just short initially in most AI's), a design in the DesignCreation file, and an entry in the ConstructVehicle file to tell the AI to build it.

Sphereworlds - Havn't tried to get them to, but looked into it some - Don't beleive it is possible because there is no Vehicle type that covers ring/sphere world construction - thus would have to use other types of vehicle types to call for designs and construction of them. Since the AI would then be unable to recognize what they are for, it would build them anywhere and would be unable to use them for the construction.

I have seen the AI make very effective use of Space Yard Ships though.

Re: ? on AIs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atraikius:
I have seen the AI make very effective use of Space Yard Ships though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds intersting. What AI and what did it do with them? Build defense bases on warp points?

Re: ? on AIs
 

AI had a stack of about 10 Space Yard Ships that it would move to the closest resupply base to its war zone. Using those ships it would rapidly build a large force of ships, bases and fighters, while providing a point where it could repair whole fleets in a turn. In about 10 turns it had built up enough defenses to hold the resupply base, and would move the Ship Yard Ships to the next resupply base, this made one hell of a snowball effect with the AI rapidly expanding because they could return damaged fleets to battle much faster, allowing them to complete the conquest of the system faster, which would give them more resources to build more ships etc... Worst game I ever had - lost 4 big fleets, and 3 systems just slowing them down enough to build a good defensive position.

Re: ? on AIs
 

Nasty! Was it a modded AI? Has to be since I haven't seen the stock AI even build space yard ships. Which race was it that did this to you? I want to play against them.

Re: ? on AIs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jubala:
Nasty! Was it a modded AI? Has to be since I haven't seen the stock AI even build space yard ships. Which race was it that did this to you? I want to play against them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try the Klingons and the Romulans ! I have played a testgame (regarding maintenance) and after 100 turns the Klingons had 11 Dreadnought SY ships with 2 SY components each (? does it make sense ? I would build a SY and a repair component...), the Romulans seem to be very active with regards to stellar manipulation also, they had 6 Battle cruise SY ships. I still have got the saves from turn no. 100, but don't ask me if the races have done any reasonable things with the SY ships (the test was under full AI control, I have just hit the next turn button... The only thing that I have noticed: The AI often tried to move the SY ships when they had something in their build queues, which of course brings up an error message.

Re: ? on AIs
 

Two shipyard components is not suppose to happen but the AI can do it, something to do with the ship design file. They get the benefit of both yards for construction so they can crank out the stuff!

Re: ? on AIs
 

Jubala - It was one of the AI I'm working on, I've only seen them pull that on low starting tech games, they don't seem to do as well on the med. or high tech settings, but I have seen them pull that on multiple occasions so I figure its going to be normal for them.

Re: ? on AIs
 

This 2 SY Dreadnaught design; can you Intel it and then build it? ..or can you Crew Insurrect them and then you take advantage of a double SY on them? If the AI can build them, is it something to do with their bonus??

Re: ? on AIs
 

It is done through the AI design file, the AI seems to ignore the one per ship limit.
If you copy the design of the spaceyard ship from the AI in question and put it in the design file of your race then turn the design minister on you will design it. Once it is designed you can build all you want you just can't design it.

Re: ? on AIs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
It is done through the AI design file, the AI seems to ignore the one per ship limit.
If you copy the design of the spaceyard ship from the AI in question and put it in the design file of your race then turn the design minister on you will design it. Once it is designed you can build all you want you just can't design it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you go over this again? So a human player COULD build one of these???

EDIT: And is it a result of bonuses or does even an AI with no bonus build these??

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 26 June 2001).]

Re: ? on AIs
 

The only way to get one is to have your computer ship design minister design it for you. If you try to design one yourself you get a warning "only one component allowed" or something like that when you try to add the second yard component. Apparently the AI design minister is able to inore this warning. Once you have it as a design you can build as many as you want.
The easiest way to get the design is to copy it from the AI's vehicle design file and paste it into your races vehicle design file then turn on the design minister for a turn or two until he decides to design it for you.

Re: ? on AIs
 

Please, how does one go about cutting, pasting, copying ship/base design files within an ongoing se4 game?

Re: ? on AIs
 

You will need a separate race file for your race. It will contain the shipset and I think it must have, as a minimum, a general file.
I would just copy a complete set of files from an existing AI into your race folder and rename them to match your race name. Just follow the same naming conventions as the stock AI file do for your race.
I don't know if you can have the changes take effect in midgame, if that is what you were asking.

Re: ? on AIs
 

Thats probally from the AI not recognizing components previously placed as 'Must Have' items when making the design. If you want the AI to make the ship with two, ensure that it is located both as a 'Must Have' and as a normally placed component. As long as the vehicle has sufficient space, it should be placed on the design.

I had posted a cheatsheet for the design creation file a few weeks ago that may help a little on making your own design file. Believe its in the Dubious Mod Guide.

As a side note - for anyone interested I finally got around to seeing if you can use sattelite/layers to get the AI to place fighters in orbit/on wormholes. The AI will build the fighters/sats and carrier/sattelite layers, but it will only load the vehicle type on a ship - so fighter designs as sattelites will be loaded on a carrier, but not on a sattelite layer.

Re: ? on AIs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
Two shipyard components is not suppose to happen but the AI can do it, something to do with the ship design file. They get the benefit of both yards for construction so they can crank out the stuff!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I noticed something similar in the Rage setup. The hull spaces number for SYs was set to 400, so maybe that was it. I tried going into components.txt and setting the "only 1 per ship" restriction, but haven't gotten far enough in my current game to check and see if the Rage design an SYS with two SYs again.



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Re: ? on AIs
 

Sorry to be a pain, but I still have Q's. If I Intell the design from an enemy, can I now build it?? - or must the Minister design it. See, I really don't want to give it to myself without having to 'work' for it - I'll Intell it away from the AI if I can. I should at least be able to Crew Insurrect it. Also, want to plan defense for human players using these (however, I don't think there's a whole lot of defense strategy for double build points!!!)

Re: ? on AIs
 

I'm pretty sure the minister must design it, I've never been able to do it myself. I don't capture many ships so maybe just getting a sample is enough.

Re: ? on AIs
 

Yes, Nim.. I was asking about the cut and paste in mid game. I'm glad its not doable... because it would be, to me, and exploit. Thanks.

Re: ? on AIs
 

Sounds great Atraikius. Let me know when you release it and I'll play it.