Finalizing Neostandard
 

We should probably try to reach a consensus on the Neostandard for SE5 before too much more time passes. Would this be an acceptable set to most?

This would add 6 unique hulls to the stock set. Keep in mind that the stock game already has a lot of "neostandard" type models called for, but not in general use. They add about 15 extra possible models shipset authors can already add to their sets and see used in the stock game. This means that shipset authors essentially have a possible 21 extra models to make above the basic list for stock se5.

Warships

+ Corvette/Scout (sub-frigate sized ship, name up in the air)
+ Juggernaut (between dreadnought and baseship)
+ Worldship (generally spheroid, for the death stars et all)

Baseship is already called for by stock, but not used. A note about this would be good.

Carriers

Light and Heavy already called for by stock, so I don't think we really need any more.

Civilian Ships

+ Resource Ship (not positive on this one's general utility, but many seem to like it)

Small/Large freighters already called for by stock.

Bases

+ Battle Station (base to go between space station and starbase, as in all previous SE versions)

Units

+ Infantry (non-mechanized troop unit)

Small/Medium/Large unit versions of all units are already called for as primary models/layouts, though generally not used in stock shipsets, so we don't need to include those as part of the neostandard. A note about them would suffice.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Looks very good to me. Not that my opinion matters at all. But still looks good.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Call the corvette/scout an escort. No need for a new name.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

My semi-lurking opinion is to call the Corvette a Corvette.

I like this very organized, elegant yet simple Neostandard. It does not stray too far from stock.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I like my collection of Starfire books so much I read them all every few months. I just finished the bug war pair and there were a few classes I am interested in seeing. From what I can figure the classes are as follows

Heavy Cruisers.

Super-Dreadnoughts. Bigger than a battleship but smaller than,

Monitor. These end up the biggest ships there are but I don't think they would be worldships.

other ships, such as escort carriers, are just another name for what I feel already exist.

of course this all may be irrelevant. I now remember mention that 100 Kt ships were huge, which is smaller than a SE frigate.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

This would be a nice addition, particularly if its maximum size was limited only by the resources of the owning empire. Would it be possible to allow such a class access to some of the planetary facilities (e.g. Base Space Yards, Solar Generators, Planetary Gravitational Shields) or have new ship components replicating such features limited to this class only?Adding a carrier large enough to include multiple space yards (so it can build its own fighters) might be useful. Heavy Carriers don't seem to have enough space to allow for this without severe compromises elsewhere (unless their maximum TL is greatly increased). This role could be handled by an expanded Baseship though.Again, a larger freighter capable of building its own drones, mines, troops may be worthwhile.There is a bit of a gap between the SS and SB but this could be closed up by increasing the maximum tonnage per TL and max TL. This would allow for the Battle Station to be a supersized SB instead. The reason for this is to allow for larger bases to compensate for their lack of mobility (both a tactical and strategic weakness) and to provide something to fill the gap between the SB and the Worldship above.

There is a certain "large ship fetish" in my suggestions above, but it seems strange that a game allowing the construction of Ringworlds (Larry Niven's weighing in at 2.1 x 10^27 kg) and Dyson Spheres has such comparatively low limits on ship tonnage.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

If I had my way, destroyer, battleship, corvette et al would be design types and hull sizes would be called something else.

But for what it's worth, I endorse corvette over escort.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Corvette ftw http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

AstralWanderer:
This is all about relative scale, not about stock hull sizes. Nothing stops a mod from making heavy carriers bigger so they can mount multiple space yards (or adding a "small" SY designed for such unit building roles). We don't necessarily need to force modders to make a (probably non-distinctive) 4th carrier size for that.

The problem with adding "massive" versions of a basic hull type is that with SE4 shipsets, it almost always ended up as just a larger picture of the same thing, maybe with very minor detail modifications. When there are already 3 model types for it, a 4th doesn't necessarily add much variety, but it adds more work for modelers. Worldships are distinctive. Scout/corvette adds a possibility for a small, less combat-oriented military hull design. Juggernaut is certainly less distinctive than the other proposals, but many people seemed to want a large warship hull possibility. Unlike a "massive carrier," it probably has more possibility for uniqueness.

IMO, the name "battlestation" has to go between space station and starbase for purposes of continuity (all previous SE games had them in that order). Again, its just a matter of scale. Make your mod have the battlestations at the stock starbase size, and have starbases be even bigger. Nothing forces a modder to use stock hull sizes for anything; he just needs to maintain the relative size ordering for sensible play.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Uh, Battlecruiser? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

You need hull sizes like Juggernaut to provide a continuity between a baseship (somewhat larger than a dread) and a worldship (absolutely enormous).

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I second the battlecruiser and I think another type of colony ship might be a good idea.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Aww, nobody likes Escort.

Eh. Corvette does sound neater anyway, even if it doesn't maintain continueity.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I vote escort!

not that it matters, it's just model names anyway.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Everything matters; there is only different levels of relavency.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Vote: Large colony ship or resource ship?

I think only one mod, maybe 2, actually used the SE4 resource ship. It didn't seem to have much utility.

Also, should we specify that the small fighter should be interceptor-like, and the large fighter should be bomber-like? The regular fighter would be something in-between. This would create a bit more uniformity, and would provide the opportunity for modders to have different fighter hull types without needing to specify extra models that aren't part of the neostandard.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Why have resource ships, when you have freighters?

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I vote large colony ship. I guess Kana's right, freighters are useful as resource ships, but it would be nice to have another size of colony ship.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I vote for escort.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I vote Corvette. An Escort is more of a type of duty than a class of ship.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I vote for Corvette (or zodiak if you want to insiste on small size)
I vote for Large Colony Ship, because resources ship as no really interest, if you don't use the robo-mining

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Freighters can be colony ships or resource ships, but doesn't sound that interesting.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Large colony ship

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

a corvette is smaller than an escort.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Vote:
Battle Cruiser or Juggernaut?

Battle Cruiser would go between Cruiser and Battleship, whereas Juggernaut would be the biggest warship size, between Dreadnought and Baseship (which is more of a cross between a starbase and a ship).

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

battlecruiser

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Battlecruiser

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

And!

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Battle Cruiser.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Battlecruiser

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Why are people voting "Battle Cruiser"?

Why even ask for this vote?

"...whereas Juggernaut would be the biggest warship size, between Dreadnought and Baseship (which is more of a cross between a starbase and a ship)."

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Because it is a community standard, not a Fyron standard...

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Mainly because size is all relative. You only get one "biggest ship hull", and the final number of ship hulls is the same.

It all comes down to the popularity of the name itself.
And we all like our SE3/4 battlecruisers.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

There is more to it than that; a "battle cruiser" will tend to look like a cruiser, and a "juggernaut" will tend to look like a dreadnought. Where the hull fits in the size line matters as far as what the models end up looking like.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Fyron:
Maybe you could post the entire string of shipnames according to tonnage? I kind of lost track... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Corvette
Frigate
Destroyer
Light Cruiser
Cruiser
Battle Cruiser
Battleship
Dreadnought
Juggernaut
Baseship
Worldship

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

A BC is a Battleship with less armor. Which means its faster than BB's and as fast/armored as a CA.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

In most SE4 shipsets, the battle cruiser tends to look like a big cruiser, rather than a small battleship.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Only if the shipset designer is short of ideas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Which describes 80+ percent of shipsets that have been made for SE4...

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Well, I vote for the list you posted Fyron. Looks good to me.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Looks like Battle Cruiser won out over Juggernaut. I wrote up a spec for the SE5 Neostandard:

http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.p...dard_%28SEV%29

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

True

I was just stating that historically a BC was bascially armored like a cruiser, faster than a BB, but had BB size guns.

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

I set the typical alternate for the Battle Cruiser to be Battleship instead of Cruiser. Sound good? Maybe it will encourage people to make it more Battleship like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

That just made me laugh - a cruiser armed with BB guns! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
"Yeah, we're blockading this port, and if you don't surrender we're going to... umm... perforate your sails! Yeah! Never mind the fact that warships haven't had sails for centuries..."

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Hey, a cruiser-sized BB gun would be massive!

Re: Finalizing Neostandard
 

Well I'm glad I brought a smile to everyones day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif