Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tips?
 

Hello everyone!

I'm currently in the process of getting repeatedly rammed by the AI. I am playing middle age O'rlyeh.

Here's what I'm doing.

Imprisoned Archmage with 6 astral, 2air,2water, one point everywhere else except blood. 3 luck, 3 growth, 3 sloth, 3 magic.

I prophetise my first starspawn priest guy, and have him go mad or get lost in time and space or get killed by using the void gate. It's a habit.

I then venture into the oceans to get pounded half the time, but can sometimes take over places using a mix of lobo guards, the cuddly-toy green troll things and illithids.

I then try to get the solar thingy that gives 5 astrals per month.

Going onto land gets my arse kicked generally. The troops die from one hit of absolutely anything, then my paralyse is excellent for helping me die slowly rather than quickly.

I then proceed to die from dominion loss.

Help. :-)

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Use Crab Hybrids to expand underwater.

An imprisoned rainbow mage won't give you any help whatsoever for the early game and first half of the midgame. Wyrms seem to be popular with R'lyeh; take one with no more than two magic paths and a high dominion.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Starspawns that start with priestly powers have this nifty icon that makes them better summoners. They are also somewhat better at not becoming insane in the Void Gate. Because a prophet is much more important than a normal recruitable commander, don't throw him to the gate. Use the priests.

Research Thaumaturgy. Mind Burn - damage through armor, nice against well-protected creatures like Amber Clan. Magic resistance protects against it, though. Paralyze - good against scary things you don't want killing your forces. Soul Slay - magic resistance protects against it, but one failure is fatal... Enslave Mind - to get more units for your armies.

Lobo units are cheap, and don't rout easily, but they have hard time killing tougher troops. Select provinces that have weak defenders, or where their superior numbers can overwhelm the enemy (e.g. if you have 50 Lobos, 10 Crab Hybrids, go against either 40 Tritons or 10 Sea Trolls, Kraken, but not against 30 Shark Knights or Amber Clan Tritons, or 100 Tritons.)

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

OK. Sorry, I have too many questions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

So, I'll cull the rainbow pretender for now. Do I have to have an awake pretender to do all the fighting? (ie: the wyrm)

As for thaumaturgy - who's going to do the casting? I need the researchers for researching, or should I be sending a certain number of them off to battle? Will 2-3 of them casting THA spells really change the battle outcome?

I always use the special summoner guy for the gate, but why not a prophet. Does the extra bit of priestly power have no bearing on summoning from the gate?

What else should I use the prophet for?

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

The lobo guards and other fighting units are just a meat shield to cover for the leaders. I put them in the middle of the field with orders to hold and attack. All leader types should go at the very back of the field. Your prophet can cast buff spells like bless or sermon of courge, spell casters can cast buff or attack spells and the other illithids can paralyse so that by the time your forces meet the opponent is greatly weakened. 2 or 3 spellcasters is ok at the begining of the game but later on you will want more.

Use another starspawn to enter the void gate. I always like to keep a second around as an immediate backup.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Prophets dont help summoning, only summoning skill does. Use your prophet for leading troops, casting spells(smite or morale boosts) and possibly thugging depending on who you prophetise. A battery of soul slaying or mind enslaving starspawn can do alot of damage to the ai and also defend you against bigger threats such as elephants and large pretenders.

For your pretender an E3 wyrm either awake or sleeping is great early-mid game. Send him out asap against very weak provinces while researching alteration. When you reach protection spells(stoneskin/ironskin/invunerability) they combine very well with his high health and he becomes nearly unstoppable by regular armies of the time. Later with summon earth power and maybe some cheap items such as starshine skullcap, horror helm, pendant of luck and something else he can work very well alone or with your army(routing enemies quickly to reduce casualties) and can also be a support caster with spells like bladewind and legions of steel/strength of giants.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Thanks to your tips I beat the impossible AI. Though, I got the strong impression that with rlyeh, you're going to live or die by your dominion. You can't try to muscle people out of their land areas. You do a land-grab (for above ground lands) at the start, hole up with monster defense values, and let your dominion do its work.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

I'm playing MA rlyeh for the first time and am not doing so hot... I really don't feel i fully understand/appreciate dominion...

Could you please further explain what you mean when you say this?

thanks

Dominion kill.
 

If a nation's pretender is no longer worshipped anywhere -- it has no positive dominion in any province, including other nations' provinces -- that nation is eliminated.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Hi,

Basically, I, as a newbie, hold the opinion that due to it being tough for R'lyeh to take and hold land-provinces, it's easy to get pushed back completely into the ocean, or simply to have only a few land provinces.

If that happens, a dominion battle typically ensues. If the enemy pretenders dominion levels are higher than yours, you're screwed!

Keep in mind, I'm still quite green, so my word is not gospel, but I do get the feel that a high (8+) dominion was key to my few successes against the "impossible" ai.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Don't forget Dominion is affected by the number of temples you build(5 per point). So your starting level does not matter that much except for blessed troops.

Stone Idols are a good item. However you will need to start a nature 2 pretender unless you want to work for them.

The guide says build in water and jump big when you come out of the water. If you jump a castle then your foot hold is very secure. The gem income is nice and you can quickly reach the point of dumping all your money into land troops. Take out the nation with the best home province troops first thing. You are the ocean that rises up to take castles with out warning. Only a fool builds a temple on the beach for you to burn and slip back into the water uncontested.

Also, remember if you are safe in the sea then you can build a few thousand up for the jump. You are going to spend money fast.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

This is supposed to be true, but i belive it is buggy. Basically the "Power" of your dominion scale is unaffected by the number of temples, of course each temple spreads dominion in themself.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

As I understand it the max dominion in any province (number of candles) can be upped with temples and the temples have temple checks to spread dominion, but the actual 'power' of dominion for spread etc can't be upped.

Fairly major bug that makes domkill even more difficult.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Dominion spread is on pages 93 and 94 of the manual. 5 temples adds 1 candle for the math just like taking another candle at start up would.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

No, you are wrong im afraid. 5 temples ups the max dominion with 1 yes, but as for the dominion spread it is determined by the starting value (so the manual is incorrect). An example, if i pick dom 10 and build 25 temples i will spread my dominion twice as fast as someone with dom 5 and 25 temples.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Don't quote the manual like it's infallible. This is one of the several cases where it appears to be wrong - hence the reporting of the way things currently work as a bug.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

Thanks for pointing out this bug to me. I looked and it is on the short list of bugs.

Yea gads, I mean Dominions 3 and dominion error. Seems kinda like a misspelling the game name level of error.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

ahhhhhhhh that makes sense then! I just lost a game badly as rlyeh and i had a temple in every single province that i owned in the ocean yet my dominion spread didn't seem to be affected :/

So what exactly is the usefulness of temples then?

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

They do still help spread dominion by using individual temple checks.

They also allow you to recruit sacred units/leaders.

Re: Rlyeh newbie getting massacred by AI...any tip
 

In addition to what Sombre said:

Temples also increase the cap for purposes of sacred unit recruiting (not so important for Rlyeh though).

But more importantly they also increase the effectiveness of preaching, especially for getting rid of negative dominion, and for building higher positive dominion. So if you've got red candles in a province you own, build a temple and put some priests preaching there. You've probably already got a bunch of starspawn doing research, switch them to preach until you get the message that they can't raise the dominion any higher. Your insane prophet dudes are great for this too, since they are H3. (You'll have to take them off preach manually each turn to check to see if they're wasting their time once you've got 3 or 4 or 5 white candles in the province.)

Especially as LA Rlyeh, you should build a big border of white-candle dominion around the edge of your lake, it will stop enemy dominion from being able to spread into the middle of your territory.