Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Is there something wrong with me? I could spend almost an entire day playing SEIV. It's been, and still is, one of my favorite games.


I was pumped for SEV but... I don't know... I just can't play it for hours like I can SEIV. It has to go in thirty-minute spurts or something.


What's different?

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

For me its hunting for information.

I fired up SE4, so I could get ramped up to particpate in the PBC IV game. Now you could say it was just familiarity with SE4, but I found it very easy to get any information I needed while playing with one or even two clicks of a mouse. And basically that is how the rest of the game played. I may need to play a bit more of SE5, but I really don't have that same kind of experience.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I am a devoted SE player. Happy to help out, even if it does sometimes cause trouble. Personally though I prefer multiplayer. I get bored fairly quickly if I play single player. Better to have a handful of games where I do one turn every few days. Also I am not very nostalgic. I have no trouble moving on to something new. All my SE4 games have dried up and I am considering deleting SE4 to free space.

So that's me. I can't answer your question as it seems I just experience them both differently to others.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Same with me. I used to play SEIV sometimes almost continuously for a whole day or more. With SEV, I couldn't do that because there's still some little annoying things about the user interface that start to bother me if I keep playing for more than a couple of hours. SEV has improved tremendously though, from when it was first released, and it is becoming more and more enjoyable to play, and I could it play it for longer and longer before I have to stop. The patches and Captain Kwok's Balance Mod have really made things better.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

oh yes of course balance mod. It's the only type I play. I played stock once and quit when I discovered I couldn't build base yards from the beginning.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Yeah, I think it's the interface in SEV... It's just... so... clunky. I mean, really. Why couldn't they just keep the normal interface and add 3D? Or something.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

There's three major problems I'd say. The UI, as has been mentioned, very long turn processing times, and harmless AI.

It's great to see the dedication Aaron is giving the game, though, and I have hopes that all these three issues will eventually be at least partially removed.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I think that SE IV and SE V are two different kind of games. One is certainly more fun to play than the other and as to why well who knows.

I ten to play SE V for only a few minutes before stopping. I think the game is a great game, but just not the kind of game that I enjoy playing for long periods of time. As you said is just simply doesn't have it.

The game dynamics are very different between IV and V. While I think IV is a superior game for game play, V certainly has far more features for modding and it has 3d aspects and ground combat.

Personally I would have loved to see the UI updated for SE IV, and small 3d models used for the planets and ships. This way the planets would spin, the ships would be true 3d and wouldn't get all pixely when seen at angles. I would have been fine with keeping the top down combat system, so long as the ships were 3d and looked and acted according. Adding ground combat would have been a great addition, and updating the UI to have a more SE V look would have been great.

After thinking about it for a while I think that SE IV is for the true gamer, a person who isn't interested in eye candy so much as function ability, game form, and immersion. SE V is a beast compared to its older brother. The ships are bigger, the planets and systems are larger looking, and the game is for all intents, a brand new take on an old idea. SE V is a new game period. Like all new games that take on the mantel of an old and beloved treasure such as SE IV, expectation are high and seldom equaled.

I love both games. I just prefer to play SE IV over SE V because SE IV is more my type of game. SE V is a great game in its own right but it isn't the kind of game that blows my skirt up. Much like the GalCiv games. They are all good games, just not what I am interested in.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

For me, the major drawback to SEV is the turn processing times. In SEIV, most turns processed in seconds - leading to the "just one more turn..." feeling. SEV takes much longer. By the time a turn is done processing, "just one more turn..." has changed into "well, I guess I'm done after all."

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

For me the main turn offs for SE V are:

1. Although I love the 3d systems, they feel to large and overwhelming for my tastes. I like the smaller look of the SE IV system view. To me the SE IV system gives more information at a glance and I don't have to "navigate" the camera to see what I want to see.

2. The lack of information and or sorting of information that is SE V's trade mark drives me bonkers. I love that in SE IV I can look at something and know instantly what it is I want to know. If I don't see it, its a click away or a quick sorting option to find. SE V is bulky and cumbersome and doesn't offer the same ease of finding information that SE IV does by default. I miss my icons in SE V.

3. The click fest that is SE V.

4. The lack of logical controls. If you click on the main panel which might be a planet or a ship, all you get is a larger view of that object. What help is that? It just seems that things are not as well organized in SE V as they were in SE IV.

5. The music at game start up is just annoying. I would love to have the ability, and I am sure its there somewhere, to turn that off once and for all.

6. The lack of characteristic settings. God I miss those.

7. The fact that Kwoks Blance Mod hasn't been made part of the stock game. (No offense Aaron, but Kwok is onto something.)

What I do like about SE V couldn't fit on this forum. There are so many things that just make me smile from ear to ear when I think about them. SE V is a wonderful game filled with many wonderful things. From the 3d ships to the new treaty system the game is packed full of coolness.

To me SE IV and SE V are two seperate games. A long time ago I suggested that SE V be named something different but was laughed at. Now in retrospect that wasn't such a silly idea after all. Calling SE V Space Empires: Conquest of the Stars would have been a great name for this stand alone game. Calling it SE V just wasn't fair to either game.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Ah yeah, the 3D system view. I really, really don't like that part of SEV. The camera is completely awkward, the suns are annoyingly large, it's extremely difficult to get a decent overview, the top-down view is useless for various reasons, etc., etc. I'd give just about anything to have good old SEIV's system view( just replace it with hexes ) in SEV. It feels, looks and plays much better.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

5)Replace in Settings.txt:
Number of Title Songs := 1
Title Song 1 Filename :=

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Really? How so? They seem, I dunno, virtually identical to me. Sure interface and rendering elements are different, but the core gameplay is more or less the same in both games. There is far less difference (in terms of gameplay mechanics) than there was between SE3 and SE4.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The largest problem of the three is the processing time. It just takes too bloody long, making the kind of games I like (255 systems, 10ish TDM empires, 20k max ships and units) impossible.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I'm still in the same boat with many of y'all. I WANT to really like SE5, but it still leaves me feeling like I'm missing something.

Every time a new patch comes out, I wait for Kwok's latest update to take advantage of it and then I start a new game. And each time a play a handful of turns and lose interest. I dont know why it is either. I think it just starts to feel less manageable and starts to feel more like work than fun. And yes, the long turn times are a killer because they occur even for smaller games. I just recently doubled my RAM on my system (from 1gb to 2gb) but I have yet to see if that helps or not.

Anyways, if I hadnt liked SE3 and SE4 so much I would have given up SE5 by now and just written it off as a loss. But given how much time I spent on the prior two games, I'm still hoping that the patching and mods make SE5 into the game I had hoped it would be.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I guess the best way for me to put it would be to say that the finer subtleties between the two games is significant enough to support my statement that the pattern of growth, change, and development in the feel of "game play" between the two games is valid. Sure they are very close in game play but there are slight differences between them that manifest themselves in a way that makes the dynamics of game play of the the two games different. This is illustrated by the appeal that most people have demonstrate toward SE IV in preference over SE V.

When asked why some players prefer SE IV over SE V, most cannot specifically tell you why they like the one over the other. Hence my comment about the subtle differences in the dynamics of game play. These minute difference are prominent enough to affect people and their choice to play one game over the other time and again.

Simply put, SE V doesn't have what many gamers want. Sad but true.

Fixed misspelling of subtleties

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I dunno, everyone always seems to complain about the UI and clickiness, almost never actual gameplay issues.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

You misunderstand, I am not saying people are complaining about game play issues. I fail to see where you formed that opinion from. Nevertheless, let me be clear, it is not the game play that people are complaining about. The game play is different and that is all that most people are saying. I believe many people have tried to explain that they simply do not enjoy playing SE V for various reason, least of which are these undefinable subtleties in game play. Now to say that you don't know why you don't enjoy playing SE V isn't the same as saying playing SE V is bad. There is a difference between not saying that you are not enjoying something, and complaining about it.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

If we could specifically nail down the little things that seem to be spoiling the fun of playing SE V and resolve them, then no doubt SE V would become even more popular than SE IV ever could have dreamed of becoming.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I liked: Fleet subdivisions! Grouping ships into Strike group, Marine lander group, long-range fire support group, Civilian group. Each with separate strategies. Great idea.
I disliked: Having to do it over and over. No saving important creations.

I liked: Detailed Treaties! Fantastic, and loads of fun to think about. In theory.
I disliked: AI drained the joy out of them with clueless responses/proposals. Also couldn't save those treaties for later use.

I liked: Huge tech tree, that does a good job of being better than just a spreadsheet optimizable choice.
I disliked: research interface designed to keep players in the dark. Bug or a feature? Depends on who you ask. I certainly didn't enjoy it.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Personally, the UI just needs to stop being so... Interfacey.

With SEIV's, I need to retrofit that frigate to get some better engines. I click the button with a recycle bar and click retrofit.

In SEV, I have to hunt it down, since the tool tips don't tell you what the buttons do, then I have to click through all those new icons that appear in a new menu, then select 'em all.

Bad example, since I'm dead tired, but still.

Another thing I hated was the camera. I'm an old RTS junkie, so when I move my mouse to the side of the screen, I expect the screen to move right or left, not spin the camera around.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

The stock SE5 tech tree is really terrible. Every weapon increases damage by 5 per level, which destroys any semblance of starting balance between them as tech progresses...

In both SEIV and SEV, it is easier to just use hotkeys than waste time mousing to all the buttons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But yeah, the UI issue of the weird button panel is a big one.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Slick posted it a while ago...

"one word: cumbersome"

AI, UI, and turn processing.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Solubilities???

A quick search of dictionary.com to make sure I know what that word means reveals that I have absolutely no idea how that word makes any sense in the context that you've used it...

I would say you might want to find another word to describe the 'best' way you want to put it...

Javaslinger http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Stop making fun of me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif (one misspelled word and its open season on the atrocitinator.) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I'm pretty sure that AT meant to use the word "subtleties."

www.dictionary.com for subtleties.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

what's funny is, I read his post and read subtleties in my mind. I didn't even realize he wrote "solubilities" until it was pointed out...

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

tehre was a sduty dnoe on rdenieg taht siad olny the fsirt and lsat lterts oedror are itomrapnt.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I recall the thread that discussed this AngleWyrm. It was about two or three years ago.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Yea, I wonder what they're up to now?

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Maybe I'll give the SE V demo another go.

Maybe not.

I tried to like it before, but the title of this thread, "Man, it's just not there," sums up perfectly the impact SE V had on me.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Don't expect to change your opinion. The demo hasn't had the latest bug fixes as the full game, but the things that make the game unfun haven't changed.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

It is a lot better than it was a few months ago. It's still not quite there yet. I like to play with large galaxy of 255 systems and 20 players. By around turn 80, it is so slow and I start to lose interest. Also, I have to save the game, exit and restart every 2-3 turns or it would crash during processing turns. The memory leak problem is still there. There's many annoying things with the user interface too.

Hopefully the next patch will speed up turn processing.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

IMO they need to fix the crash issues. that and certain aspects of game design seem illogical. the way the game sorts things needs a bit of work.

And most importantly... BRING BACK SECTOR BORDERS!!!! Planetary ships being able to endlessly run away(and have the game keep track of this between turns) makes for seriously imballanced gameplay.

most other aspects of the game are not bad. the "click fest" issue was (mostly) addressed by adding hotkeys for everything. It still needs a way to say "upgrade alll of them" without using that menu thing to upgrade all of your planets(which BTW would be much better(or actually useful) if it only added upgrades to idle planets)

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Notes:
- They = only Aaron Hall (singular)
I wish Strat would give him some code monkeys to help.

- Retreat can be disabled in settings.txt.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I like the way retreat was handled in SE3.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

I liked SE3 retreats pretty well, too.

I liked SE3 overall a whole lot, too. There are still some fun things about it that never reappeared in SE4 or SE5.

I'm still waiting for SE5 to evolve into something I want to (mod and then) play. I still have patience and some hope, though, remembering that I wasn't really satisfied with SE4 until it got to the Gold edition.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Yeah I did like that method of Retreat too. It actually made sense.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Fight for the Stars

You get one planet, a huge infrastructure establishment and as your tech grows you get better technology. No colonizing other planets. You have to conquer them. With your infrastructure working at peek performance you can have a huge fleet of 1,000's of ships.

Re: Man, it\'s just not there.
 

Huh?

There was a risk style SEIV PBW game that was alot of fun, you would basically get a limited choice of ship types (3). You could build one per system, one planet per system, and then the combat would basically kill 1 ship per hit. It was a quick but wild game, especially if you throw in alittle bit of diplomacy.

Of course the Junkyard SEIV PBW game was also fun. You could only get tech by finding it on planets, so you would have a mish-mash of tech to build your ships with, and fight against the other players. You could have a butch frigate go up against a pretty paper-thin wuss of a baseship depending on what tech you were lucky to find.