LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

So... I won't be writing a strategy guide about them, but being the first water nation I tried, they're quite a bit different than I expected, and they're different from the other water nations in that they start on land.

People have been great at answering my questions, but there were enough I had I thought I should try making a single thread. I also hope that I'll be able to help someone rather than asking all the questions.

So, first off... I get a whole other set of recruits when I build a sea fortress. Is this unique to Atlantis, and why do I want to recruit them, other than the lower resource cost?

Someone mentioned Ghost Grip, and it looks like it could be quite good for my Tungalik's to cast, especially since I'll be using various other methods to increase fatigue. But I'm not certain how it really works. It says it affects multiple squares, but it has an AoE of 0, and 5 NoE.

What suggestions do you have with regards to using Tungaliks?

When experimenting with the Ice Pebble Staff, I found I've really been underestimating the value of Numbness. So, I'm thinking I need to seriously reconsider and try out some of the less sexy combat spells. I can do quite a bit with fatigue, it seems.

So I'm looking for advice on spells my Tungaliks can cast, with especial attention to ones available early enough to help with my expansion.

How many Tungaliks do I need casting Frighten or Slime (which BTW has four effects in CB mod, though I'm looking for vanilla dom3) to see any worthwhile results, when facing standard indies?

That's enough for the moment, I'd love to see a discussion start thats not just my questions.

Construction is a rather sad path for Atlantis, but I will say say not to underestimate the Ice Pebble Staff, which casts Numbness, and is available at construction 2. It's too expensive to build many, but I always try to get at least one out, and hand to a Captain, who I set to cast spells. It's no substitute for real mage support in the great battles, but can make a big difference in your smaller battles. I think it actually does more than listed in the manual. I'll do a couple labs tonight.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Wolven winter battlesites just before they become battle sites.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

From what i've seen of LA Atlantis, it seems getting lots of death gems, having a good Death magic Pretender, and having lots of Productivity and Magic scales are pretty much essential elements to making LA Atlantis work. They are definately a weaker nation out of the box, and are always going to have something of a hard time.

I'd say Atlantis' viability is very much dependent on whether R'yleh or Ermor is in the game. Now, if you're supremely lucky and start near Ermor you have a real chance, because Ermor is extremely weak to massed Priests at the start, and you NEED Death gems, and Ermor's capital is Death gem paradise. Later on Ermor can compete with you in the water, though.

Atlantis vs. Ryleh is the lynchpin though, and if Ryleh is in the game (imo) you're pretty much screwed. Basically Atlantis' strategic flexibility contests with it's tactical inflexibility and it's dreadfully linear unit line. Atlantis is a fully amphibious empire that can build forts and temples underwater easily, can cross bodies of water easily, and can use sailing to move along and across coastlines easily. But even so, Atlantis' fewer, more expensive units will get totally trashed by Ryleh's huge hordes of mindless chaff and mindblasting Illithids, pushing you totally out of the water. Without being able to use your amphibious capacity, you're stuck up an iceberg without an igloo.

I haven't found much use for Tungaliks, which are a very inefficient unit. However Atlantis does have easy access to path boosting items with a little research. Tungaliks with Skull Staff = Raise Dead. Water bracelet = several water spells.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Do chill effects still work under water? How useful are Mound Fiends? If you can take out the chaff, you can get your own, from all the dead. Fortunately, while I may speculate, I don't have to face R'lyeh.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I am going to say the obvious.

Expand.

Buy cheap indie fluff to fill out your ranks. They can be amassed quick and can do the job in great enough numbers. They break quick so having back up indie commanders waiting to pick up the cowards is important. The up side to this is that their losses can be low. Multi waves can wear down strong provinces.

Get the scouts out.

Jumping Ryleh quick is great gain if you can get to their capitol before they know what is happening.

Ench 5 friendly currents.

Con 6 bottles of living water. If you plan for it you can build around this. Five or ten of these can be very nice. Water elementals that get killed every battle and are there for the next.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Atlantis' recruitable units from underwater forts are the most dissapointing part of the nation, imo. After being pushed out of the water you'd think that they would have colonists that were gung-ho and militant about returning; in other words, units with good morale and reasonable combat ability.

What Atlantis gets is a 80 gold 1-holy Priest, a totally average 10 morale medium infantry that is just marginally better than indie chaff, and no recruitable mages. It's like they are fighting the war of their races' lives, only to come home to glorious mediocrity.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

How 'bout the burden of time. Not much point againt R'lyeh, since they've taken some Atlantians as slaves, but your troops have an old age of 500, and thanks to R'lyeh in era's past, you don't have anyone left alive from that generation.

So, if you get that up, you won't see the effects for hundreds of turns, and Abyssia... Well, let's just say that if they aren't waging war already, they will be soon. You probably could make a temporary alliance between you and Ermor though. They'll benefit from Utterdark much more than you, but you'll see some benefits too, and the Burden of Time isn't much of one.

What kind of results have you seen the cold climate have on ice weapons and armor?

I've seen my Snow Warriors get a +2, though I haven't experimented enough to see the full range.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Utterdark or BoT are both fairly rational choices for LA Atlantis to make. Of course both are going to hurt you fairly badly as well, so best not to employ them until you've reached a tipping point and need a big push to win. The problem with Utterdark is that it will make it nearly impossible to recruit new troops even though your troops will be doing fine in combat otherwise (be wary of course of Ermor, Agartha, ect). BoT does seem like a good choice to squash human nations though.

I think it's +2 armor per cold level. 3-Cold Ice infantry hit i think 23 armor. The short sword armed Ice Warriors are quite adept little buggers, but like Caelum are very resource expensive, and are also quite slow. LA Atlantis' troops just beg for some Quickness love.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

LA Agartha is all humans, and their good mages are often old (although their Death magic usually keeps them from suffering too badly from normal old age).

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Do the weapons get any better in the cold, or do I just have to settle for them being magic?

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Anybody still interested in LA Atlantis?

I'm having trouble figuring out a long-term strategic goal. I mean for Agartha, I might go for Earth Blood Deep Well. But Atlantis is severely limited in its research abilities, IMO, and doesn't gain much from a magic scale thanks to its weak mages. What's the ace up my sleeve supposed to be? What'll win me the game?

A total noob's analysis of LA Atlantis' units w/regards to expansion.

Seal Hunter - A crucial, though hardly deadly unit, its unusually resource intensive for chaff. It gets the Harpoon which can tie up enemy units, but thats an extra, rather than an ability I would depend upon. It doesn't seem all that reliable (esp. with low precision) and I'm guessing its especially ineffective against high ap cavalry.

While these are technically chaff, they're nearly equivalent to independent light infantry, and cost only 60% as many resources. They don't have the shield, however, and are vulnerable to archers.

Don't undervalue these in combat, but don't let yourself forget they're chaff too. More on these later.Oh, and mundane weapons.

Snow Warriors - Don't let them enter hot lands. Their armor will get weaker. In two cold, they go from 13 prot to 16. Acceptable encumbrance. Cold 3 may be worth trying despite the gold hit. They have magical weapons.
w/Lance - the standard choice, their lance gives them a +1 attack boost, and a chance of repelling, but no shield and miserable damage. They're excellent against low protection, hitpoint troops such as animal tribes, minor undead, shades.
w/Glaive - perhaps a superior choice, they cost more resources. Their glaive is still magical, loses the attack bonus, but has nine points of damage. Combined with their strength, these units can punch through medium-high armor, such as Agartha's Heavy Infantry, when the Lance would just strike glancing blows.

Ice Warrior - their attack is higher than it appears at first glance, since the +1 from the weapon isn't displayed until you click on 'Attack'. Their basic protection is a (for HI) solid 17. With two cold, that jumps to 21. 21 protection with an encumberance of 7 isn't bad. And they're your first unit with a shield- a good parry value of six, to, that will catch quite a few arrows, though it won't do quite as well in melee, thanks to the Ice Hauberk's def penalty. Unfortunately, the Ice Lance hampers their use. A solid defensive unit, it lacks punch. They also have a mildly above average morale (12), which will be helpful if you encounter any fear or awe. They're still quite inexpensive in terms of gold.

Ice Guards - They have similar equipment to the Ice Warrior, but are more skillful and a much better offensive choice. Their basic stats are better all around, except for AP and cost.
w/Ice Blade - you lose a small amount of defensive strength due to trading a length four weapon for a length one, but you keep your shield, and get 5 damage + 12 strength, rather than 3+11. The blade also has some minor attack and defense bonuses. All in all, an excellent, but hard to mass choice.
w/Glaive - It's only mildly more damaging than the Snow Warrior w/Glaive, though it does have significantly better stats, dramatically better prot, and a higher cost. These are better units, but you don't always want them. On their own, they're better, but if you're only looking for damage output, while other units stop the charge, Snow Warriors are a better choice.

Mournful - an excellent unit. They're pricy, but much more capable of expanding past your dominion. The 35 gold may hard to stomach when you're looking to hire an Angakok, but is often worth it. Their protection is drastically better than Snow Warriors thanks to the shield, but they still cost less resources and worry about climate less thanks to Bone armor. They've got better defense, and an all around better chassis. They are size three, so you can only fit two to a square, but that isn't to hard to stomach. Their damage potential is enough to kill Heavy Infantry and Cavalry in a single blow, within the range of a single DRN, even without rolling a six and re-rolling.

Oh, and their shield does have a lower parry value than the Ice Aegis, but that's countered by their hitpoints. If you end up facing Man's longbows, though, it may be worth keeping in mind. Oh, and they are your lowest morale unit with a measly 9, despite the cost.

Arssartut - I'm undecided.

Overall Expansion - Unless the independents are homogeneous, you'll likely be recruiting a mix of three units during your expansion, sufficient to take on most strength 5 threats. These three units are usually Seal Hunters, Snow Warriors/w Lance, and Mournful.

When facing cavalry, you'll put the Seal Hunters in front to absorb the initial damage-boosted charge and die. With the dangerous charge out of the way, your Mournful will usually carve through even Heavy Cavalry easily.

When facing typical archers, you'll put the Mournful in front to draw all the arrows. They can take it, especially with their hitpoints and Turtle Shell Shields.

When facing large amounts of infantry, you'll have your Snow Warriors front and center, with your Seal Hunters and mournful on the flanks and behind a bit, keeping their speeds in mind. Hopefully, the Snow Warriors will tie down the infantry without much injury, while the Mournful will take care of heavy armor, and the Seal Hunters the chaff, and eventually help with outnumbering any high def units.

The Mournful are formidable enough fighters, but because of their low morale, its best if they're not the first ones into battle, especially if you have Ice Guards available. As long as you don't give them the chance to break, they'll serve you well.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I saw someone use a strat where they massed the large sized guys and used magic 1 (or 3 I can't remember) to quickly research to falling frost.

Jazzepi

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

That was me. Its an interesting idea, but I've refined it a bit.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I thought it was fairly effective. You got hemmed in by an unfortunate starting position.

Jazzepi

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Hmm.... things not to do as LA Atlantis, unless you're looking to make your opponent die of laughter.

1). Cast stoneskin on your Frost Father pretender with his 25 chill. It's rather embarrassing to have your super fall unconscious during a critical battle, after about four rounds. He will be affected by his own chill. It might have worked combined with a ring of frost. But thank god it happened to me in SP.

2). Get a Snow Captain with Heroic Agility (increased attack, def, and ambidextrousness), prophetize him, give him two Ice Swords. So far, so good. Now you just need to let him get ahead of the Seal Hunters so they can promptly throw a harpoon in his back at point blank range. Also a SP gem.

He survived, amazingly, only weakened -4 str. I had to draw him back to my fortress, where he has 42 hitpoints, 15 prot, 30 morale, 15 MR, 5 Enc, 18 str (+10 from dominion), 16 attack, and 25 defense. Still no shield, or missile protection, unfortunately.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I have another to add to the 'not to do" list.

Don't ever have frost wolves guard your mages. Even with 50% cold resistance the mages quickly get over fatigued and die.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Ha ha ha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif. I've been playing a little SP LA Atlantis 'cause this thread got me interested. I find it really hard to get my hapooners to throw their harpoons, and when they do, half of the nets end up on my guys. But the nets look really cool, so I can't stop doing it!

By the way, I made my first Angakok my Prophet. I figured the extra base HP and the ability to self-buff with quicken self would be nice. He's W4D2. Then the next Angakok I recruited was A2W3D2. Damn, Mirror Image and Mistform too! I supposed I'll thug the new guy out anyway. Even though he won't have Prophet HP, he can still bless himself.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Remember LA Atlantis' only real advantage is that it's a fully amphibious land nation; it faces many of the same problems that EA Agartha has to confront. Only, imo, LA Atlantis has an even narrower magic base from which to build it's empire.

Things like Burdon of Time are a good idea for Atlantis and takes advantage of some of it's few subtle advantages, like it's near immunity to old age with units that have lifespans over 500 years. Send Tupilac is a questionable spell, as the Tupilac has very poor attack and defence ratings, and it's only certain to kill weaker commanders. (Of course, i've had a Priest Starspawn, unequipped, fight and kill a Vastness that attacked it summoning stuff, so victory is always possible).

Ulimately Atlanis is a nation whose armies are built around mobility not staying power. Use that mobility to get an advantage over your opponents.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

It goes one better: try playing around with the amphibious + sailing combo. You can do fun things like starting in an deep-sea province and leaping over a hostile shallow-sea province to hit a land target on the far side. Good scouting is key, because your armies can be just about anywhere anytime if you've got an ocean handy!

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Yeah, Send Tupilac is questionable. If you're discussing Burden of Time, then as undead, the Tupilac will benefit greatly from Utter Darkness. As the manual mentions in its sample strat, if you've got a death heavy pretender, consider casting your globals Well of Darkness, Utter Darkness, and Burden of Time. The consequences are minimal.

If not, it is questionable. But there are advantages to taking out their lesser commanders. If they can't use the standard independent commanders to ferry around reinforcements, that's to your advantage. If you can take out several low-level priests before an assault, any undead hordes you use will have to worry a lot less about banishment. If they have to use their good priests for h1 banishment, thats good.

I'm not certain how it would turn out, but I suppose I'll have to experiment with this situation.
1). One friendly black servant in an enemy province defended only by pd, set to attack.
2). Two casts of tupilak attempting to kill the commanders the same turn.

I suppose it depends on the order of events, and whether the commanders are replaced immediately, but it would be nice to route the entire pd with one Black Servant.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

You can't assassinate PD commanders. You can't do anything to them outside of battle with the PD, actually.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Drat. Thanks for the answer, Taqwus.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

About the underwater recruitables:

Yeah, it kind of seems sucky that there's no recruitable underwater LA Atlantis mages.

But the Consorts are great! 80 gold for: (27HP, thick skin, 12MR, 16 strength, self-blessing) is pretty cheap. I'll stick some winged boots on them to get around the movement problem, probably a frost brand since I've got so many water gems, and whatever other cheap gear I can think of. 12 attack is mediocre, but with a Frost Brand it doesn't matter all that much.

I didn't find a use for the underwater infantry, but the Shield Wielders are great crossbow/arrow chaff.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I think the Assartut low resource cost mahes them interesting for beginning the game. I had a SP game where I was facing man and I had no problem punching through their lines (mostly used glaives). I almost never use chaff units when I can avoid it, I prefer to use my gold on powerfull units. I think chaff is mostly a weakness, specially the harpoon throwers, which will do almost no damage at range before getting killed rapidly in close combat, closing your army to the deadly 40 % loose.
LA atlantis must rely on damage dealers (glaive people) 'cause you've got no archers at the beginning, and it's pretty hard finding cold immune indeps.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I entirely agree regarding chaff - because of the way the morale system works chaff is very rarely a good idea.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Assartuts and other cheaper sacred capital units are excellent for continuous early expansion. Many play up the ability of certain nations like Ermor or Pythium to expand from turn one, but at turn 4 a nation with cheap sacred and a good bless like Atlantis can expand continuously with hardly any reinforcement every turn after. (I think the Eagle Warrior and Shadow Vestal are the kings and queens (respectively) of cheap capital-only sacreds.)

The Assartut's big weakness is it's relative lack of armor, but as above, this makes it easier to mass them in numbers. And being cheap they are easy to maintain.

Harpoon throwers have only one selling point and that is they are the only unit that can be quickly massed by Atlantis: everything else is quite expensive in resources. Atlantis' high resource cost is a big weakness after a major defeat, they have a hard time coming back.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I believe those harpoons actually decrease defense, though I've had quite a bit of trouble tracking their effects throughout a battle.

Chaff is an exceptionally good idea when facing heavy cavalry, though I haven't tried other counters. Can any of the other units handle cavalry charges?

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Units with good def can do ok vs cav without having to die in the process. At least in my experience.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

You've got a good point there. The seal hunters and snow warriors have no real defense, but the Ice Guards (w/sword) have a defense of 15. How good is okay? The gold cost is a lot lower, but looking at resources, I could get 6 seal hunters.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Assartuts, combined with a death bless(i like a dom9 D9 Prince of Death with LA atlantis) can do some very nasty things to thugs and SCs, particularly those nasty early expansion pretenders. The prince himself on the other hand can nicely get those big globals up for you and makes a nice SC of his own when outfitted properly.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I've been sticking 10 chaff in the front to catch the first bunch of arrows or an initial cavalry charge. I don't want my resource-heavy units damaged if I can avoid it.

I went with a S4E4 bless on a rainbow pretender. S4 with drain 2 was in case I got Rlyeh on the map, and drain 2 is not so bad with the big mages being R9 and capable of making skulls. I think drain 3 would even have been fine. E4 is mostly for reinvigoration for the mages. SP, so I'm not worried about losing the pretender to a duel.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I have to wonder whether cold is really AN as the manual describes. My experience has been that mages casting spells near a chill-equipped monster (Wraith Lord, etc.) take lots of stun damage, whereas normal troops in melee against multiple chill-equipped undead usually don't take significant stun damage unless they're entirely surrounded. (I am, of course, accounting for the fatigue they suffer from regular melee attacks. I mean above and beyond.) This makes me wonder if cold damage is perhaps AP instead of AN--I think it must be at least AP because Agarthan Blindlords with 24 protection still take some cold damage when grouped with Sepulchrals.

-Max

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Here's my tip on fighting undead.

You're likely to have a lot of Tungalik's on hand, but be uncertain how to use them. The answer depends somewhat on what undead nation you're facing.

Ctis and Ermor both get MR boosting prayer. While Pangaea does get special prayers, but no MR boosts. And then there's nations like the Ktonian Necromancers, who get no special prayers.
Among the last two, Banishment is effective, but against the Tomb Kings isn't likely to be enough on its own. That's where Dust to Dust comes into play. It's easy to overlook this level one spell, but it will continually prove useful throughout the game. It does 22 damage, with a range of 25, and is both armor negating AND ignores magic resistance. And did I mention that it attacks the entire square?

It's main drawback is its low precision, but you'll likely have a bunch of death mages on hand, there's little friendly fire, and undead tend to travel in groups.

I've used four Tungaliks (with support) to just ravage four Banes. Needless to say, I got the better part of the bargain. Because it's area affect, its not a total waste against MR boosted skeletons/skelly cavalry either.

it's effective against LA Ulm's Ghoul Guardians, too, and several other late age units.

If you've got Angakok, Cleansing Water looks similar to banishment, but with two key differences. First, it is not negated by magic resistance. Second, it has a fatigue cost, but that only comes to about 13 with 3 path water and 3 encumbrance. It's a handy method for clearing out lesser undead. That unfortunately takes until Evo 6, but don't underestimate the utility of Dust to Dust, available much earlier.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Witherbones trumps Cleansing water against undead, unless you have way more water mages than death mages.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I hadn't noticed that spell, but it does look superior. Though the lack of D3 mages (though easily accessible with forging or lucky picks) does put a damper on its use, especially at 50 fatigue. Still, its worth at least three - though probably more - Cleansing Waters, and works against tougher targets as well.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

As LA Atlantis, you can often easily afford to get more forts up and running, since you've got very poor land forts.

Once your income allows, recruit Angakoks every turn. A lot of functionality is bundled up in them and their random pick. The more you have, the more utility. You may even get lucky and get air 2. Treasure that one, since there aren't any low path air boosters short of empowerment and storm power. Auspex, was it?

First and foremost, sailing. It may seem redundant with amphibious, but it is an awesome ability - though dependent on the map. The sizes are often wrong on a randomly generated map for it to be any use, though. Keep this ability in mind when shaping your empire. Even after you've used sailing to good effect once, the opponent often leaves some vulnerabilities. If you can't use it to raid, or defend a landbound fortress, you can often use it to cut off a path of retreat for an enemy army who has encroached on your territory. You need to focus on making Tungalik's effective, since they're available everywhere, but Angakok's are your game changers.

Random 1' (110%s) magic in air, earth, death, and water is essential to keep in mind. While every Angakok has some effective spells, there are a few key battlefield spells I will point out, though there are fun things you can do elsewhere (such as use up spare earth gems with Blight and Earth Boots).

Evocation Six & Seven opens up the Wailing Winds and Wind of Death. These spells are fairly cheap to cast (avg. about three gems, plus probable booster item), at 100 fatigue, and affecting the battlefield. While Wind of Death affects friendlies, decay isn't really a problem for Atlantis. Even a 25 turn battle will only add 125 years, and even your Angakoks and Mournfuls can take some extra age.

Since an Angakok can easily bring 100 troops or more along with a little experience, you can make some devastating strikes, as long as you remember Wolven Winter, which I generally cast once or twice on the same turn I order the invasion.

One word on Rigor Mortis (fatigue, battlefield enchantment). If you think it might combo well with Grip of Winter: Don't. It'll ravish your mages. On the other hand, you can theoretically twiceborn every mage you own, and once they're wight mages, they get cold chill, 100 cold resistance, and undead, saving you from worrying about partial CR. No more sailing, but they occasionally gain a free pick of death with the associated immunities and weaknesses. If you can afford to invest in an entirely undead, low mobility army, Rigor Mortis may be worth considering, and comboing.

Darkness is, of course, available, but that's always going to be quite expensive, costing 4 to 9 gems depending on whether you need the mage to stay conscious afterward. It's probably best to plan on Darkness dropping your mage off to sleep. Worth keeping in mind is that Darkness is Alteration six. At the same time that you research this, you also get access to, W1 Frozen Heart. Frozen Heart is castable by every Tungalik, and has 100 precision. Even with about a 40% precision penalty, this'll aim true.

Also at alt six, consider casting Iron Bane (E3). I'm not absolutely certain, but I think it doesn't affect most of your armor. I presume the various ice armors are magical, and not affected, though I hope to see soon, in my game, a definitive test-case.

Going up against Fire magic?
With a couple spare gems, every Tungalik can cast Rain. Given the choice between casting it with a Tungalik and an Angakok, I choose the Tungalik every time. Sure, it may cost me an extra gem, but its generally worth it to free up your generally rarer Angakoks for more important, or repeatedly cast spells such as cleansing water.
An Angakok with an earth pick can cast Fire Ward (enchant 4), giving you 100% FR.

If you've got several air Angakok's who don't need to cast anything else (no huge hordes of longbowmen, or you're facing another archer deprived nation such as Ctis), Freezing Mist is a wonderful spell for Evocation 3 and only 20 fatigue. Repeatedly castable without any boosters or gems.

Don't combine Grip of Winter with Mournful, unless you're willing to cast Winter Ward, or Warriors of Neiefelheim. It's a mistake I've made once or twice.

By the way, Mournful will suffer the encumbrance effects of severe cold in a three scale environment. That affect is ~4 additional encumbrance. This, along with interesting independents is one reason not to take cold three- unless its your opponent with those interesting independents.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

The sailing/aquatic combo allows you to make moves that nobody else in the game can make. You can start in a water province, move across another water province, and into a land province on the other side of the water province you sailed across. Depending on the map setup, this can be better than flying. Depending on your opponent's scouting and awareness of your capabilities, this can make for some very surprising attacks.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Retractions and apologies.
Your enchanted ice armor isn't considered magic armor to the game... Ice armor will break under conditions of iron bane.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

The Arssartut are the swiss pikemen of Dominions. They've got the morale and footspeed to weather arrowstorms and can pull down anything they engage, from dragonflies to doom horrors. Bone Glaives combined with their racial type have them being viable shock infantry where compariably costed sacreds are bless chaffe. I've developed total faith in them.

Of course, my favored LE Atlantis pretender is an imprisoned Lich with a D9W9 bless. But that's Inuit mythology in a nutshell.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Dayumm... Arssartut are awesome. Now, by accident, I've avoided playing any bless nation, but when you have 18 provinces by the end of late winter (in a practice game, roomy map, independent 5), that's a noted success. My total upkeep at the end of the first year? 199. My secret? That will have to wait just a little bit. I'll be starting a game next week. I will say it involves blesses- but is not solely dependent on it.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

hidden in snow can actually be used by atlantis in LE for diversification, though I wouldn't try it too much. Also, send tupilak is a pretty neat asssasination spell, and Catoblepas with death gaze can be pretty fun as well.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

I have to agree. Send Tupilak is a nice assassination spell though a little expensive for comfort.

As you can't equip it, it is rather poor at handling crowds, thanks to its low attack and defense.

On the plus side
A solid magic resistance of 12 protects them from indie priests. One tupilak, although undead, can take down most priests.

Excellent hitpoints. They can shrug off firebolts, and most area affect spells actually work to your advantage. For instance, leeching darkness and fireball often kill off via 'friendly fire' those bodyguards your tupilak couldn't.

Excellent Strength - offset by the lack of any weapons, but good enough to kill typical humans.

They will usually be torn down by five bodyguards, but can take down many unprotected mage/priests.

Re: LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips
 

Yea, LA Atlantis has surprised me twice in 2 different MP games this way. Both times proving fatal. Its a good surprise tactic.