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Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Following discussion in the wahammer nations thread, I have decided to attempt a mod for actual use.
The Hordes of Chaos are malign, depraved, and destructive. From their fastnesses and gateways in the frozen north of the world, they raid and pillage other civilisations: Longships from bleak norsca filled with bloodsoaked raiders, hunched sorcerors wielding dark magic from the gods themselves, black armored knights riding to the world's ending, and the hellspawned throngs of daemons. The hordes of chaos worship the four gods of Chaos: Tzeentch the manipulator, who weaves men's fates. Nurgle the plague lord, bringer of decay. Khorne the blood god, who dictates men's slaughters. Slaanesh the dark prince of pleasure and pain. Each member of the horde seeks to rise in the favour of the dark powers- to become a dread champion of chaos, and finally to ascend to immortality and daemonhood. Fortunately for the world, this path is paved with blood, and it may be the blood of other followers of chaos as well. Only once in a thousand years does a champion arise with the favour of all four gods and the strength of body and mind to weld together the fractious hordes and unite them into glorious slaughter. That time has come. The forces of chaos are powerful- marauders from the northlands conditioned by years in the harsh climes, and born into a life of battle march alongside the favoured of the gods, men of great stature with unearthly fires burning in their eyes. ----------------------------------------------------------- Essentially, there are three aspects of a chaos horde: Mortals, Beasts, and Daemons. The recruitable units will be solely mortals, such as might be found in the north. Sorcerors and champions will be able to call forth daemons as the war progresses. (Any tips on the inclusion of beasts would be welcome) __________________________________________________ _________ |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Part One: The Recrutable Mortals of Chaos
(or: Why Elenian Hates Making Sprites) Marauder WH- WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I4 LD7 M4 LOTS of options. Dominions- Att 12 DEF 10 Str 11 Hp 10 Ap 12 Prec 9 MR 9 Mor 10. Wasteland survival. <<Axe+Shield/Axe+Javelin/Flail>> Light Armor. Medium infantry specialising in brutal assaults, Marauders are the only 'weak' troops available. They are nonetheless above-average humans, and are decently well equipped. [no notes here, these are basically easy to do] Marauder Horsemen WH- WS4 BS3 S3 T3 A1 W1 I4 LD7 M9 Dominions- Att 12 DEF 10 Str 11 Hp 10 Ap 22 Prec 9 MR 9 Mor 10 <<Axe+shield+throwing axe>> Light Armor. Decent horsemen, medium cavalry with axes. Ride ahead of the main force souting and pillaging. (Notes: I cannot draw horses in gimp. Pillage bonus or survivals) Warriors of Chaos WH- WS5 BS3 S4 T4 W1 A1 I5 LD8 Dominions- Att 13 Def 12 Str 12 Hp 13 Ap 10 Mr 10 Mor 13 Prec 9 <<Sword+Shield,Greatsword,Halberd>>Hea vy Armor Combat Monsters with supreme stats and equipment. No longer normal humans, more comparable to abysians. Chosen Warriors. WH- WS5 BS3 S4 T4 W1 A2 I5 LD8 Dominions- Att 14 Def 13 Str 12 Hp 15 Ap 10 Mr 10 Mor 14 Prec 9 +SACRED <<Claymore>>Chaos armor=really very heavy. Ultraelites blessed by the dark gods with fanaticism and sealed suits of chaos armor. --erm. Computer error. Will finish soon.-- |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Regarding the beasts - there's plenty of room for a Beasts of Chaos nation based on the Warhammer army list of the same name and the earlier Beastmen army books.
Feral Harpy Ungor Gor Bestigor Beast Chariot Minotaur Dragon Ogre Chaos Troll Chaos Centaur etc etc. Sort of like a Chaos version of Pangaea. Lots of blood, death and nature magic, along with some stuff from the 4 powers. But the Hordes of Chaos should get Chaos Warhounds I think, since they are associated with marauders, not beastmen. I like the stats on the marauders - a basic att value of 12 seems right for Chaos, who are supposed to be the undisputed masters of melee. I think I'd give the marauders another 1 or 2 hp though, they only have toughness 3, but their large northern frame could account for an extra point or so. Skaven have toughness 3 and str 3 as well, but are clearly smaller and weaker - in dom3 you get more values than in Warhammer, so you can represent these differences - I gave them str 9 and hp 9. As for the chaos warriors - WS5 is very rare and very high in Warhammer (amongst basic troops) and I would give them at least 14 att. By the time they become chaos warriors they are starting to become more than human, so they don't need to be limited by the general Dom3 stats of elite troops having att13 or so. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Computer seems to have recovered from it's illness, so I here go aagain.
You are right about choas warriors being superhuman, but, well... Chaos lords are WS8! That would be 22 on a linear scale 5=14... Also swordsmasters, if you or I ever get around to high elves... Perhaps you are right about marauders having a bit more hp than normal people. What is your stance on pillage bonus or sailing for marauders? Horsemen? AM i right in incluing chosen of the gods as sacreds? Should I bother with chosen knights? (Given my equine drawing limitation?*) Can you think of a way to 1) limit the numbers of chosen and 2) add some weakness to chaos. As represented in the rules, Chaos has brutal troops, some decent fodder, powerful magic, monsters, and even a BIG cannon. ____________________ *See, I draw all my sprites from scratch in GIMP. _________________________________ Chaos Knights: Warhammer- WS5 BS- S5(*) T4 W1 A1 I5 LD8 M8 Chaos steeds, it should be noted, are S4 Dominions- ATT 14 DEF 13 Str 14 Hp 14 Mr 10 MOr 13 Prec 10 <<Sword+Shield>>Heavy armor. Chosen Knights: WS5 BS- S5(*) T4 W1 A2 I5 LD8 M8 Chaos steeds, it should be noted, are S4 Dominions- ATT 15 DEF 14 Str 15 Hp 16 Mr 10 Mor 14 Prec 10 <<Sword+Shield>>Chaos armor. SACRED Warhounds of Chaos Att 13 Def 11 Str 13 Hp 12 Mr 8 Mor 8 Prec 4 AP 18 <<Bite>> [Note: needs abilities to make worth recruiting] What about chariots? cultists? I have 11 recurtables as it stands. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Leaders of Chaos-
This is where it all descends into ruin Champions of the dark gods- Aspiring champion. Att 15 Def 14 Hp 15 Str 15 Mor 15 Mr 10. Ld 40. <<Flail>> (seriously considering 25% SS chance to represent mark of tzeentch) I'm ignoring Exalted Champs, since they'd be useless. Lord of Chaos. Att 17 Def 16 Hp 20 Str 16 Mor 16 Mr 11 Ld 80. Standard 10. <<Greatsword>> (seriously considering 25% SSS chance to represent mark of tzeentch) Sorceror of Chaos As chaos warrior, except FD? ?is 110% FDWB <B is all that's needed to start a blood economy of khorne daemons. There are no tzeentch sorcs, hence no astral (See Aspiring Champ) Death is Nurgle, Fire is fire, Water is slaanesh and the chill of the north.> Exalted Sorceror of Chaos As chosen warrior, minus sacred. FFD? ?is 210% FDWB Shaman of Chaos As marauder, but H1, 10%N1 (What else?) (Need a scout) |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Pillage bonus sounds good. As for sailing,.. most of the marauder tribes are land based, up in the extreme north around the chaos gate at the pole. Only the norse just north of the old world seem that interested in sailing.
I think Chosen should be sacreds, yeah. Chaos are a pretty religious nation all things considered, since the Four Powers are a part of every day life. Technically, Chaos should get a Chaos Warrior Chariot and a marauder chariot. I think just the chaos warrior one would be fine. As for cultists,.. I say leave them. That was the old chaos before they brought in the idea of the northern lands being rife with tribes of excellent fighters rather than fodder humans. I think Knights are a must for Chaos. If you have trouble drawing horses, just use a horse sprite from the game as a base - the sprites were made available by K O recently, including attack sprites, so just find a random cavalry unit from there and heavily modify it to get a nice chaos steed (with extra powerful hoof attack). I guess the 2 big weaknesses of chaos are the high cost of their stuff (if you leave out cultists) and their lack of missile weapons. This translates fairly well into dom3 I think. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Obviously they need knights. I was merely wondering about TWO types: chosen and otherwise.
Missiles are definetly going to be absent, save for some horsemen throwing axes and tzeentch daemons. If you're a warhammer player, you no doubt realise that steeds ALWAYS kill more enemies than the knights. Hence, I agree with increasing the power of chaos hoofs. Warhounds? Why build them? |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Warhounds can be an auto spawn/summon allies troop of the more Marauder-esque leaders. You could also have them spawned by a Marauder scout of some kind and give them stealth - they'd be the only mundane chaos stealth troops then.
I think variety is good when it comes to chaos. If they have a large number of recruitables that's not a big problem - chaos are a pretty varied army thanks to the 4 different powers. As long as the graphics don't need to be hugely different it doesn't take that long to give Chosen extra fancy helmets, or glowing swords or banners or whatever, so why not have both types? |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I'm really looking forward to seeing pink horrors turn into 'units' of two blue horrors when killed, by the way. It'll look great and work great in dominions.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Fair Enough.
As of right now, I've finished the sprites (attack and normal) for Chaos Warrior with great weapon Chaos Warrior with Halberd Marauder Horsemen (Based on a Tien Chi Daimyo, thankss Sombre) Sorceror Fury Bloodletter Only fifty something left. P. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Post a preview so we can all criticise them and complain about them being the wrong size / too cartoony / too dark / too brightly coloured.
You know you want to ;] |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Umm. Well. Since you put it that way.
Oh. 'Too dark' is an understatement. And I'm NEVER finished, so don't think this is final. Thy'll be up an about 30 minutes |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
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WOO!
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I think those look great, with my only minor concern being that the chaos warriors and the bigger guy appear to be standing front facing the viewer, whereas most units in dom3, including the horseman and so on, are pretty much side on. They'd look great on the recruitment screen, but might be a bit strange on the battlefield. The style of them is nice though and has a gritty feel to it that suits Warhammer.
On a more positive note, the fury and the disc riding fellow are particularly cool :] |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
The disc riding fellow is a changebringer of tzeentch, and is absolutely the second coolest daemon in warhammer, following the daemon chariot of tzeentch.
You are right about the warriors, and I might fix them. I've got a bloodletter and some marauders done too, but they'll be in my next update. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
FInished a lord of change, which is quite pretty. WIll be away from coming sunday for four weeks, will probably finish thirteen deays after that, given current progress. .DM will take another 3-4 days before beta test. Looking at 7 weeks.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Thirteen days eh? That's precision estimation.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Hmm. Actually, I chose thirteen because
1) it's the sacred number of the horned rat, 2)Let plog(gx) denote the discrete logarithm according to the prime number p, i.e., the number l modulo p &#8722; 1 such that Then 13 is the only prime number p such that for any two primitive roots g and h, 3)Thirteen is the fifth lucky number. 4)The atomic number of aluminium is 13 5)There are 13 zodiac constellations, which consist of the 12 signs in the astrological zodiac and Ophiuchus. 6)The number of participants at the Last Supper was 13 7)In Tarot decks, the #13th card of the Major Arcana is Death. 8)The legion with which Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon with was the Legio XIII Gemina 9)In egyptian mythos, there are 13 steps between life and death 10)MEtatron's cube is bmade up of 13 circles 11)It's pretty important to the states: The number of original colonies the United States was founded from. The original flag had thirteen stars, one for each state. New stars have since been added whenever a new state joins the union, but the idea of adding stripes for new states was soon dropped, so the American flag to this day has thirteen horizontal stripes: six white ones and seven red ones. The Great Seal of the United States has: 13 levels of the truncated pyramid, 13 letters in "E Pluribus Unum", which appears in the banner running through the eagle's beak on the right side of the bill's reverse. 13 letters in the phrase "Annuit Coeptis", which appears over the pyramid on the left side of the bill's reverse. 13 stars above the Eagle, 13 leaves on the olive branch, 13 olives on the olive branch, 13 arrows held by the Eagle, and 13 bars on the shield. The number of guns in a gun salute to U.S. Army, Air Force and Marine Corps Major Generals, and Navy and Coast Guard Rear Admirals Upper Half. The Naval Jack of the United States has 13 stripes, 7 red and 6 white, the rattlesnake has 13 buttons on its rattle, and the motto "Don't Tread on Me" has 13 letters 12)There are thirteen steps leading up to the gallows 13)There are thirteen items in this list. QED |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
You forgot number 14 - The number 13 is driving me insaaaaaaaane http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Number 2 makes no sense!
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Umm. Ya.
THe equation editor stuff I did apparently doesn't copy into Firefox very well. Can you suggest a differentreason so I don't have to reduce it to twelve? |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
My reason my reason !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Leaving for France today. Might do some work there, probably not.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I love the disc of Tzeench.
Zoom - kazoom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
*bump* So what's the word on this?
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
hey this one seems great, let hope its alive
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Okay, okay. Fine. I'll finish it.
I really was hping you'd all forgotten, since I'm swamped with schoolwork right now, but I've still go the old stuff, and I'm willing to finish the mod. I'll write a Dm, since thats way easier than grpahics. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
for graphics you can just put some placeholders for now, if you nedeed help with them i guess someone will be willing to lend a hand, i actually can, but i'm awful lol;)
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I'm reasonably capable of GIMPing, but I have to do everything from scratch (its psychological,) and I'm busy, and there doth be much work forthcoming. I have to finish about nineteen different daemons for summons alone.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Hmmm,
Frankly, if I were to do a WHFB Chaos game, i'd create factions by ethnicity rather than patron Power. So, instead of the Khornate, Slaaneshi, Nurgling and Tzeenchian nations, i'd choose Norse, Kurgan, Beastman and Hung (I'm sure there are more). But that idea starts to break down due to the fact that you can't mod your nation's mages to only have Paths and National Spells based off your Pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Ah well... |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I am just doing a single mod for all the powers/tribes, since there is a hardlimit on active mods AFAIK, and It would be nice to run several warhammer mods together. I have done a .dm, and finished another marauder sprite, but it will take a while yet before, eg, all the daemon summons are done and with graphics. I also need a chaos lord, champion, chosen, another warrior, possibly a chariot, knights, and about seventeen daemons. Gurgle.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Valandil, with the release of Zepath's beautiful Warhammer map there is more call than ever for appropriate Warhammer nations. There is no Warhammer nation I am looking forward to more than that of Chaos. I would dearly love to see what you've got done with the mod to this point.
The graphics, while utterly crucial to a finished mod, are less important to me at this juncture than the mod stats and such itself. Is there any chance you could perhaps send me whatever mod nation *.dm file you might have prepared to this point? I would be most interested in perhaps finding placeholder graphics from the released sprite pack so as to tide things over while proper graphics are being prepared. This would give some of us the opportunity to playtest what might be ready in terms of stats and perhaps help flesh out the details. While I am not quite ready to handle building a full mod nation myself, I've gotten pretty handy at hacking and tweaking other people's mods (for my own SP amusement). I would love to be of some assistance. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I lost a bundle in a computer mishap, but I have a really rudimentary dm and most graphics intact. I suppose I could send the .dm to you; or even finish it myself.
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My Email address is in my profile. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Umm... sadly, tweaking will take a couple weeks, probably. I mean, there are about twenty different daemons to go through.
BTW, what about summoning khorne daemons? BLood seems apropriate, but then there would have to be a khorne sorc, which is totally illegal? Also, I was thinking about just giving lords a chance for S3, to represent mark of tzeentch? After all, there are no Tzeentch sorcs either... |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
You could have a khornate champion with blood magic, but auto-berserk in battle so he couldn't cast.
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I would consider giving the lords H2 or 3 and making the champions merely sacred. However for racial point balance, I would also consider not giving Chaos any holy or sacred at all. I mean technically they are all fanatically 'holy' towards chaos, but rather than actually making them all holy, it would seem reasonable to me to simply assume their holiness attributes are already figured into their stats, appropriate for whichever of the four powers the unit is aligned. The problem with balancing Chaos is that I see the individual chaos unit as being obscenely powerful relative to a corresponding native unit. If they can field sacred versions of those units, there could well be nothing that could stop them short of an army of SCs. Once can balance things only so far with gold and resource costs. Rather than make a chaos warrior cost something like 200 gold and 80 resources, I would rather keep the 'price' down to something a player could actually afford in at least small quantities and balance things by giving them no sacreds, but that's just my take. By the way, for heroes I would create four individual Daemon Princes, each in turn representing each of the four powers, plus a single 'chaos undivided' daemon prince combining the best of all four. They would be immortal, have combat stats slightly superior to their respective champions, leadership stats the same as the lords AND, heroes would be the only sacreds I would give Chaos, each having H2. Perhaps also throw in a multihero Chaos Sorcerer with superior magic range and scope and a multihero daemon spawn (no leadership combat monster). (As an aside, the Slaanesh daemon prince I would create would have stealth and a good seduction (around 20). That would be one truly feared assassin.) The handicap of zero holy (other than the heroes) might be too great a handicap as dominion kill would be a very serious problem. It might be necessary in multiplayer to allow for a marauder shaman to possess at least H1, just to at least have some minimal preaching ability. But the way I see the balance working is that Chaos has to exploit it's 'conventional' troop superiority to gain territory quickly, so the dominion effect of other gods is kept at bay. They should expect to almost always be fighting inside someone else's dominion. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Actually, balancing chaos infantry isn't that impossible, really. Sure, they're lethal, but only about 40% more so than an empire swordswinger. Saurus warriors can mash them. The problem is that chaos has everything: elite infantry, REALLY elite commanders, fodder, monsters, summons (Although the fury is pretty weak, actually,) powerfull magic, apocalyptic cannons of doom, no old age problems, and even some free points from cold pref. Their dominon should actually be pretty fierce, from the number of cults tht tend to spring up- id expect stealthy preachers, honestly.
The trick to balancing them, I believe, is in speed. Make them really very slow to get armies together, research done, and such. I considered giving unreast causing effect to several troops, just to see how that effects the dynamic. Now, supposing the great chaos incursion is defeated, it will take a long time for them to strike again- this is exactly appropriate. The problem is, the strike mustn't be unstoppable, or this would be irrelevant. Bst way to kill them, I think, should be encirlcing the main army that they do have with fast flyers or somesuch, and then hitting it with serious battlemages until it routs. SCs wouldn't work too well, since, eg. A Lord of Change will eat any SC with violet fire. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
It looks like you have your thinking well in hand. It's interesting just how different the take can be on chaos. Appropriate for chaos I suppose, eh? I am very much looking forward to this.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Giving some thought as to how to handle bloodletter and other Khorne daemon 'summoning' without Khorne having to use magic, which is unthematic, how about using 'domsummon'? Give the Lord of Khorne a domsummon2 for bloodletters and a domsummon20 for a bloodletter champion. The question then is how to handle something like the greater daemon summoning of a Bloodthirster. Here's the trick; give a domsummon20 to the summoned bloodletter champion that summons a Bloodthirster. If a player fields a dozen such lords of Khorne in the early game, it's a fair bet they'll net at least one Bloodthirster at some point mid game.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
hrm.
Anyone know if transformation could be modded? love the idea of "ascent to daemonhood," which would basically have a chance of daemonifying you, a chance of feeblemind, a chance of spawn, maybe others? Could make for a neat way to incorporate daemon princes. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I doubt it. My experiments with trying to mod spells that chose from random lists ended in much fire and cursing and trying to sell my soul. Bad times.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Too bad. I'll look into this soul-selling buisness though. Think I could sell someone else's too?
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Hmm... Are they a loved one? That could count.
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Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
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"Chaos Undivided" is a race mod based on the Warhammer universe. It is a single mod that encompasses all four of the major chaos powers, as opposed to doing four separate race mods.
Chaos armor has been abstracted. Chaos armor is fused to the body to whom it has been granted, it becomes part of their body. It cannot be taken off nor can other armor be worn over it. Hence in this mod it is considered the equivalent of very tough skin. Those units that do not have a torso item slot have had chaos armor granted unto them. It does not encumber and costs no resource points. You will however notice that chaos armor equipped units invariably have rather high gold costs. Revision log: Version 0.11 Fixed an issue with capital only units being available everywhere. Version 0.12 Added nametypes for Demon names. Version 0.13 Radically altered the pretender, Archaon, and gave him appropriate graphics. Version 0.14 Reduced poison cloud on Nurgle heroes. Added banner bearer summonable troop with appropriate national spell. Version 0.15 Numerous small tweakages. Removed priestly magic from all recruitable commanders except Chaos Cultist. Added level one priest magic to capital only Exalted Sorcerer. However also added Priest magic 3 to all five Daemon Prince heroes. Added Lesser Daemons of Slaanesh and spell to summon them. Version 0.20 Added a lot of extra names and made them fit the respective powers that the unit is affiliated with. Increased the gold cost of the Lords by 50 to 250 as the increased combat power of their chaos steeds is worth at least that over the steedless champions. All Demons planned are now in the mod (Nurgle Plaguebearers, Nurglings, Daemonettes, Daemonettes on Steeds of Slannesh, Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, Blue Horrors, Screamers, Bloodletters, Bloodletter Champion, Flesh Hounds, Chaos Furies, Great Unclean One, Keeper of Secrets, Lord of Change & Bloodthirster). It is largely complete now except for graphics, tweaking and balancing. Some Tzeentch combat spells should still get designed. Version 0.21 Added ritual spells for summoning Bloodletter Champions and Unreasoned Champions (actually both just tougher troops with which to shore up the troop line). Version 0.22 Corrected "Gift of Chaos" ritual spell. It was summoning the wrong unit. Version 0.23 The "Gift of Khorne" summoning ritual now summons a bloodletter commander instead of a troop. Painted proper sprites for standard chaos warriors (x3), chosen chaos warriors, chaos knights, chosen chaos knight, unreasoned champion, and improved the chaos chariot. Version 0.24 *Save game breaker!* There is no longer a 'Chosen Chaos Warrior' unit. Instead there are now four sacred, capital only chosen chaos warrior units, one for each of the powers. Appropriate sprites were painted. Collect the whole series! ;-) Version 0.25 The four champion commander units for the four powers now have sprites that are vastly more appropriate (scaled up 'chosen warrior' sprites). These are still technically placeholders, as it would be nice for the actual champions to be even more thematic. Version 0.26 Removed a useless shapechange ability from Champions of Tzeentch (a holdover from a previous experiment). Fixed a crash bug caused by a spelling error when the Sorcerer of Chaos Undivided hero showed up. Also improved the sprite. Added summoning spells for each of the four powers to summon a champion level 'troop' appropriate to their allegiance. Version 0.27 Added proper sprites for Daemonettes and Daemonettes on Steeds of Slannesh. It took me hours to get them looking decent but when I saw their effect on the battlefield, it was a hypnotizing as they are supposed to aught. Version 0.30 Thank you Humakty for the crucial playbalance feedback. Lowered resource cost on Marauder infantry. Basic Chaos warrior gold cost increased to 30. Most all other Chaos troop gold cost increased by as much as 50%. Basic sorcerer gold cost reduced by 10. Exalted increased by 50. Commander champion costs increased by 50. Lords increased by 100! Reduced gem cost of "Lesser Summoning of Tzeentch" (Screamers) to 5 and it's research level by one. Increased attack rating of Screamers by 2. Version 0.31 I'm not sure how it happened, I could have sworn it was working before, but somehow "Imbue Chaos' was summoning a Bloodthirster instead of doing the Gift of Reason thing. Fixed. Finalized sprites for Chaos marauders, marauder flails, and marauder horsemen. Version 0.32 Added a basic recruit anywhere chaos warrior flail & shield unit. Now there are four basic chaos warriors to go along with the four 'chosen' capital only sacreds, the four champions and the four lords. Very appropriate. Four times four. Added a small chaos symbol to all units carrying shields. Version 0.33 Tweaked the basic Chaos warrior recruitables to make them more thematic of the four powers. Slaanesh got a +1 defense, Tzeentch a +1 Magic Resist, Khorne a +1 strength and Nurgle got poison resistance, so now you can have regular troops along with your Nurgle commanders without your Nurgle commanders killing off your regular troops. Changed the Khorne regular Chaos Warrior to use a battleaxe instead of a greatsword (more appropriate for Khorne). Version 0.34 *Save Game Messer Upper. Won't break, but old Lords of Tzeentch will be downgraded.* All four Lords now have proper sprites. The Lord of Tzeentch curtesy of Valandil. The lords have been rather extensively tweaked and may in fact now be imbalanced. I could use comments on their current design and gold cost. Version 0.40 Gold costs again increased, this time on all sacred units possessing chaos armor. However all sacred units now possess 'heal' (rids afflictions), this as opposed to giving everyone poison resistance. Previously it was effectively impractical to ever mix Nurgle commanders with any but Nurgle followers. Now at least the sacreds can cope with the after effects. Province defense beefed up a tad for 20+. Changed defending commanders to first cultist, then basic sorcerer. Banner Bearer fear effect reduced to 'fear +0'. Increased summoning (creation) cost to 10 bloodslaves. All 'Gift' spells now summon the same unit, a single strong mainline sacred troop with zero maintainance cost. They are essentially a way to use 'excess' gems to shore up the troops. Greater Demons and their summoning spells tweaked. Gave a +2 research bonus to Exalted Sorcerers, as their cost was otherwise too crippling to research. Lord of Tzeentch is now as good a caster as the Exalted Sorcerer but with emphases on Astral which the Sorcerer does not possess. (Sorcerers tend to have higher fire than Lords of Tzeentch, chances for water which Lords do not have and much better chances at blood magic.) First draft of the Tzeentch combat spells is done. ("Red Fire" also usable by sorcerers.) My thanks to Sombre. Version 0.41 Thanks much in part to inspiration from DrPraetorious, I have tried to rebalance things to get Chaos more in line with being balanced with native races. Almost all units have been downrated somewhat, not drastically, but keeping them more in line with what one would expect from elite units in native. Also, the resource bonus which was previously available in the capital is no longer present. This will keep Chaos from fielding a large quantity of sacreds, forcing them to rely more on the more normal units. I now find it quite challenging to play in SP so I think I have hit on the right formula. Version 0.42 Many of DrPraetorious' suggestions have been implemented. The capital resource bonus is back. Chaos hounds have been removed from the recruitable list, they are now domsummon units only. Pretender magic, etc. toned down a tad, other adjustments made and point cost lowered to 150. Flails on all Nurgle units replaced with morningstars. Nurgle followers are now undead instead of having poison resistance and Nurgle champions and lords now have disease clouds instead of poison. 'Emerald Guards' are more elite than chaos warriors and cost only 25 gold, so the regular line chaos warrior gold cost has been dropped to 20. Regular knights of chaos gold cost dropped to 55 (their stats are comparable to regular knights yet they have no lance). Magic resistance for chosen, champions and lords increased slightly, slightly more for followers of Nurgle, significantly more for followers of Tzeentch. Slaanesh chosen, champions and lords got 'awe' and all Slaanesh followers got a significant morale boost. All Khorne followers now have berserk. Champion gold costs reduced somewhat, lord gold costs reduced quite a bit except for the Lord of Tzeentch. All summoned greater demon weapons are now magic. Version 0.43 Chaos armor is now an armor 'item' though it cannot be removed or replaced. As it is a magical gift of the chaos powers, it has no resource cost. It also does not encumber. Nurgle units are again equipped with flails, though it is a lighter one appropriate for wielding in one hand. 'Undead' Nurgle units got a small hit point and magic resistance boost. Enough for me to consider recruiting them again along side the other units. Nurgle and Slaanesh champions and lords are back up to their previous gold costs with Slaanesh getting a bit of a nerf. Now Slaanesh lords 'cannot' easily solo standard independents. Doh! Version 0.44 Graphics change only. Sprites cleaned up to remove much of the black border residue. Regular, chosen and champion chaos warriors now have subtle but distinct differences in the look of their sprites, beyond simply different weapons. This to differentiate them by their chaos power alignment. Version 0.45 Lazy_Perfectionist's spell descriptions are in. Corrected a typo that resulted in a 'no name' unit showing up in province defense beyond 20. The basic, recruit anywhere sorcerer was pretty useless and has been upgraded, getting now four magic picks. At the very least, either fire or death will wind up level two. Slaanesh got another nerf on their offensive combat, dropping strength and attack slightly. This to compensate for a basic 'awe' effect which was in but not working (now fixed). Slaanesh champions and lords also given seduction, which is mostly thematically decorative as they are not stealthy units (champions are male, lords are female). One could equip them to be stealthy however. Version 0.46 Lord of Tzeentch given a foot slot. Daemon prince heroes given an extra miscellaneous slot. All Nurgle units (undead) now have poison resistance. Champion and lord of Khorne HP and protection boosted slightly (I was never recruiting them). Lord of Khorne given ambidextrious 8 and fear 5(!). Cost boosted to 400 gold, now equal to other lords. Lord of Khorne now domsummons flesh hounds instead of bloodletters. Flesh hound sprites painted. Slaanesh daemon princ'ess' hero tweaked and sprite painted. (I should have probably kept this for last, as desert.) All other deamon prince heroes tweaked. Chaos Cultist given a single random magic pick (fire, death or astral). Gold cost increased to 70. New 'holy' ritual spell added. Grants (mixed) blessing of Chaos upon some hapless person and transforms them into a 'foul spawn'. Chaos now has 'mutants'. Version 0.47 The "Chaos Blessed" holy ritual spell has revealed a bug in the game. If you <shift> <M> to autocast each month this spell, the game will crash. (The problem is that it is a 'holy' ritual. The game engine does not like 'holy' ritual spells.) As this is most definately a spell one would set to autocast, it had to be modified to work around this bug. When the bug is fixed, this will properly become a holy ritual again and chaos cultist will go back to a random single magic pick. For now however, "Chaos Blessed" is a level 0 thaumaturgy ritual requiring fire 1 to cast. Chaos cultists now all have fire 1. I have also bumped the cost of chaos cultists up a notch again, now at 80 gold, due to this additional functionality. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Ummm.. Wow. just wow.
Now, it is impossible to give a chance for S3, AFAIK. I'm worried about the sheer number of comanders available- this is why I was trying to stick them into basically one commander for each of Lord, Champ, Sorc, types. Now, I'll send you some images and maybe .dm work tomorrow (I'm in GMT-8, BTW.) |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
Quote:
By the way, the domsummon2 of warhounds on the chaos cultist works very much in opposition to their otherwise potential stealthiness. This is deliberate. It was not my intent to give chaos truly functional stealth preachers. Just give them enough stealthiness as to be worth playing with sometimes, maybe. I want to vary the weapons outfit on the various champions at some point, but I also want the graphic to be appropriate to the change as well, so it may wait a bit. Getting the demons put in and the summoning spells has priority. Quote:
Don't worry too much about the variety. The champions on foot I can handle the graphics for (and will once the demons are functioning). The Lords will need a bit more work as they are as yet possessing very inappropriate sprites and it will be some work, but I likely can handle that too if you are otherwise uninspired. Where we most need your artistic talents is with the demon summonables, for whom there are really very little in the way of appropriate graphics in the native game. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I'm about to start adding the rest of the demons and am a bit lost with a few of them. There is quite the variety and I am wondering if some are not perhaps a bit redundant. Truth is I don't remember the game mechanics for a few of these units. For instance I recall nothing on Screamers and Chaos Furies. If I include stats for all of these (with placeholder graphics), am I going to give you Valandil, another "worried about the sheer number" concern?
-- Daemonettes on Steeds of Slannesh -- Nurgle Plaguebearers -- Nurglings -- Horrors of Tzeentch -- Blue Horrors -- Screamers -- Bloodletters -- Bloodletter Champion -- Flesh Hounds -- Chaos Furies -- Great Unclean One -- Keeper of Secrets -- Lord of Change -- Bloodthirster Edit: Well, they are all in the game now with placeholder graphics. Many of the placeholders will do fine indefinitely. (Some of the placeholders are rather extensive graphics hacks of existing sprites. Check out for instance the daemonettes on steeds.) What really needs work are the greater demons and the horrors. That and a lot of stat tweakage no doubt. |
Re: Mod thread- WH hordes of chaos
I'll start testing your mod today, and I will report soon.
To have more downloads and testers, you should put a disquette icon before the thread's name. |
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