Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

I have a quick question on Fear.

I looked at Frighten in the manual, which says one square gets hit with a Fear +15 attack. Terror on the other hand, hits multiple squares, but is said to have a Fear +10 attack.

However, the manual also says that there is no modified to a Fear attack, the + value just indicates the number of squares effected. As such, I am confused. Do these values mean anything?

Also, the manual indicates that a squad can only check morale once a round. Once they are damaged enough (or the army is) they check every round. Based on that, once an enemy army is beat up fairly badly, the fear spells and effects are a bit pointless.

Can any one clear this up for me?

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Fear doesn't make them suffer a morale check, it makes them more likely to fail it by hurting their morale.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Entire post corrected for clarity/completeness so that there is one complete explanation on just one post:

According to page 80 of the manual, a squad takes a morale check when:
"The squad has been subjected to a spell causing Fear (e.g. Terror)"

So, to clear this up, there are two situations. Fear the unit ability, and Fear from spells.

(A) Unit Ability Fear works as such:
The fear targets X squares, where X equals Fear strength + 6. The morale check the creature takes is the difficulty of 10 + (Fear/5 rounded down).

Ex. A POD which has Fear +19 (Basic Fear +10, plus an additional +9 from 9 levels of death), would have a fear aura that covers 25 squares, and makes creatures take morale checks at 13.

(B) Fear Spells:
Fear spells work the same way as the fear unit ability but they only cover an area as specified per spell.

Ex. So, a Fear +10 attack (such as the one from the terror spell) requires them to pass a morale check against 12.

(C) Bonus: Both fear effects (including spells such as terror) lower morale of the units under the fear effects (though I'm unfamiliar with the formula, perhaps a dev would chime in?)

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Perhaps I'm getting it confused with something else, but I'm pretty sure spell effects that lower morale. Perhaps it also forces a fear check.

You are, however, definitely wrong as to the area. The area is X, where X is listed in the spell. Fear is area 1.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Yes, that area refers to the fear ability which is different from the area for the spells (which is always specified in the spell).

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Saulot,

I know the manual says Terror just forces a morale check, but I've observed that hitting units with Terror lowers their morale, whereas I don't know of anything else other than starvation that affects morale. There was a recent thread on Terror effects, and someone posted that they've seen units rout without even taking damage, only Terror, so it definitely does cause a morale check. But it also lowers morale directly, somehow.

-Max

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

I've observed that morale lowering effect as well, both in terms of the fear unit ability (such as is found on a POD), and the terror spell.

What I haven't figured out, or have seen a formula for, is how exactly that morale lowering aspect of fear works.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

I can confirm both Frighten and Terror both reduce morale and cause morale checks. You can see people end up with negative morale quite quickly. Then they run away. They're quite effective spells.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Are you sure about that llamabeast? I thought I recalled KO saying that Frighten lowered morale but didnt cause a morale check. But that Terror did.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Later on in the thread he said it did cause a morale check after all I think.

I'm pretty sure because in one MP game my expansion just consisted of about 6 mages casting frighten and a meatshield. Several times the enemy ran away without ever reaching my troops (and I had no archers). Of course I could be misremembering.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

> Later on in the thread he said it did cause a morale check after all I think.

Yep. I think I did, but I always forgets this stuff, since it was otherwise in earlier versions of dominions. When inspecting frighten it apears to work as terror but with smaller area. Thus forcing a check as well as lowering morale. Making it quite nice.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Frighten AoE 1, eff +6
Panic AoE 1+lvl*2 (affects only enemies), eff +3
Terror AoE 2+lvl, eff +5

Making terror and frighten better vs high morale units and panic better vs chaff and close combat, where you can hit your own low morale troops without negative effects.

Edit: the eff is not applied to the rout check, only to the individual mrl checks to see if mrl is lowered for a particular unit. Rout check is based on total mrl of squad.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Great, thanks for the answers! Terror is much more powerful than Frighten then, which backs up my experience in the game. Also, the clarification that the spell effects individual units, which then lower average morale, really helps my understanding.

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

What does the "Fear +15" for Frighten / "Fear +10" for Terror in the manual mean then?

How does the "eff" value work?

Re: Frighten and Terror confuse instead of scaring
 

Eff is added to 10+2d6 in the usual fashion i think. Probably vs Mrl+2d6. WHat happens then I'm not sure of. Might be that a failure is -1 mrl, failure by 5 -2 mrl, failure by 10 -3, but that was in dom-ppp and I'm not sure of the numbers even if it still works that way.

I have no clue what the manual says. It might be the old dom2 frighten that only targeted one unit and had a higher value.

Taking a look in the code.
- Fear aura seems to have an effect value of 3+fear/5.
- Fear aura AoE 6+fear

- Squads with an average morale of 8 or might rout when they are reduced below 80%
- 10 mrl below 75%
- 11 mrl below 70%
- higher mrl below 60% (Then there is some checklimit stuff that i'm not sure has any effects).

Hmm, I get blasted in my head by this. I'm mixing up moralechecks, squadmoralechecks, sm, checklimit, moralebonus getmorale (and the numbers coming from that function), goodmorale, badmorale, goodroll and badroll. I give up for the time being.