Assassination n00b.
 

So, I'm very unfamiliar with assassination and all its variations.

I hear that an assassin cannot attack a target in a castle if friendly troops have control of the province. But you can attack in the castle if they haven't taken control?

I've used assassins against independents so far. Do any of the spells or units allow you to target specific commanders, or is it a luck of the draw sort of thing?

What happens if you have an assassin who's leading a few units. Can you assassinate then? Do they join in?

Etc. Etc. Do you have general assassination advice, questions of your own, any directions you want to hijack the thread.

Later I'll link in a couple assassin-y tee-shirts.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Assassins attack a random enemy commander in a province. I have never attacked
a hidden unit, although that does not mean it's impossible.

If the commander has bodyguards, your assassin spells may end up targeted at the
bodyguards.

If the assassin has bodyguards, they do not help him in an assassination attempt.
If he has units that are automagically summoned, like for example the air
elemental from the Bag of Wind, they will fight in the assassination attempt.

As a rule, a well equipped assassin will take out 99% of the targets. As a rule,
a well equipped assassin is a waste of equipment, because they usually die when
a patrol catches them.

An effective very early game assassin is anyone with a skull earing (5 death
gems, summons a skeleton for 5 fatigue)

An effective early game assassin has boots of flight, and a nasty weapon.
Everything else is too much investment.

My ex used late game assassins in Dominions II. I think I have a snapshot of her
"creative" assassins somewhere. I considered them a hell of a waste of gems.
For fewer gems you could get a thug that just takes out the damn province. As
a matter of fact, her assassins did, when the patrols rooted them out.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

No spells or anything will change the random of who you attack.

No, the troops that you lead cannot help. But they do help save your assasin if he gets spotted and has to fight all of the defenders of that province.

Troops that you summon CAN help you during an assassination. Some units will summmon automatically in combat, and as assissins they will get help. You can also give them equipment which provides a unit in combat and those will help you.

Some equipment will also give you more attacks. Either because they attack on their own like the spirit helmet, or because they boost your number of attacks.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

I've always thought lifelong protection was one of the most awesome assassin items ever.

Jazzepi

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Blood magic. Never used it, never will. *shiver*

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

What? You don't enjoy skinning 10 virgins for a pair of boots? Blood magic is the most awesome part of Dominons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Jazzepi

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

My favorite assassin combos typically involve bows and maybe eyes. Bow of war+eye of aiming has the potential to do over 100 points of damage in one round. Bow of botulf makes them no good as a commander, but you can lose your assassin, and ethereal crossbow can also be pretty useful.

Overall, bow of war+eye of aiming seems to yield the best results, as you can use the assassin in battles to fling some more arrows at the enemy.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Not the crossbow that does 999 damage?

My favorite assassin is Lord of Night. He comes with so many benefits that its hard to think of a better choice. Its even hard to think of equipment to give him

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

I believe that crossbow is etheral crossbow.

Jazzepi

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

So, if I'm tired of those Astral assassinations R'lyeh keeps throwing at me, the answer might be more Earth Readers/Attendants to the Ancients/Indie commanders to up the count?

I've already got lead shields on my best casters, but that's quite expensive.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

If you're talking about the mind hunting spell, you need astral mages to catch them in the act. If you just have a handful of level 1 astral mages, it'll feeblemind almost all of their casters.

Jazzepi

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Unfortunately, I have no astral access. So I need to know, is indie commander spam an effective way to waste their gems?

Actually, in hindsight, 2 pearls to attack one of my commanders without retaliation? Ouch.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Yeah, barbarian chiefs as padding does help since targeting is random.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Thanks for the answers.

Here's a couple of tees celebrating the honored ninja.
http://dirtymicrobe.com/products/assassins/292/296?s=pw
http://www.bustedtees.com/shirt/silent/male

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Indy priests are probably the best bet if you have the temples built already since they've got 13 MR, sacred upkeep and can actually contribute somewhat in combat with bless/banish. The 3 points of MR is the main selling point, since keeping your decoys alive is a good thing.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Isn't there a ring of warning that helps?

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

That helps by giving you 10 bodyguards instead of 5 during an assassination attempt. Unfortunately mind hunt is not one of those, and it will not randomly pick a body guard. You have to recruit indy commanders if you want to not get hit by the spell.

Jazzepi

A hell of a waste of gems
 

> My ex used late game assassins in Dominions II. I think I have a snapshot of her
> "creative" assassins somewhere.

In the Battlefield FFA game, I had this wench stealing my Arch Theurgs. She
eventually got paralyzed by a petrify, and chopped to bits by five principles.

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

I'm still laughing about an ex-girlfriend good at assassinations.

Thanks for that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

That does seem worrisome doesnt it?
My ex-girlfriend was good at using assassins in the games. Just fantasizing? or Practice?

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

Kind of related...

This 4th of July we had a party at the house. A friend had brought some watermelon and was looking for a knife to cut it with. He wanted the biggest knife we had, but my wife kept on giving him the small ones.

Finally, he said, "I want the knife that you would go after your husband with, if he was having an affair and you found out about it."

"Oh! You mean THIS knife!"

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

Hah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

Did she throw it across the room and stick it in something? That would have been perfect to go with "this knife".

In my house a suggestion like that would be very dangerous. We have 3 throwers. And the house is full of fantasy blades from dagger to swords. Too many to properly display.

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

I'm ressurecting this thread because I started a game as MA C'tis and I'm having trouble using the assassins for anything other than very expensive scouts.

My first question is, what set of circumstances would you employ an assassin rather than a mind hunt/thug/SC/etc.? There are so many options in the game, and I'm just not seeing where the assassin comes in.

Second question, is it worth giving them any equipment to speak of? I think flying boots are pretty much required, but even then the empoisoner's from C'tis are not very successful. I got the national hero assassin, and gave him a longbow of accuracy and 2 +attack rings. He had 36 attack, and against an indy mounted commander, he fired two shots that either missed or failed their attack roll, then got killed in one hit.

If you don't equip your assassins I can't imagine what a viable target might be. For instance, anyone that can summon usually kills you, which is basically death mages, air mages, elemental mages with gems, etc. Against priests, I get smitten about 50% of the time but I guess those aren't terrible odds. I can kill most of the indy commanders (with the notable exception above), but if that's all the assassin is good for then they're not worth recruiting.

Then of course there's the problem of not being able to pick your target, so any nation that "could" have any of the above in the province is asking your assassin to take on a suicide mission.

Is there anyone with fairly extensive knowledge of assassination that would be willing to share?

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

Is this for MP or Single Player?

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

Ranged weapons are affected by the prescision stat, not attack. Try forging an eye of aiming instead. (Don't equip two - you go blind)

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

Generally, when I've found assassins most useful, I've went for quantity, not quality. As Atlantis, 5 Tupilaks a turn can mess with an opponent's plan. As a nation who can recruit assassins, I think the key is not to use them to soon. Once you start using them, your enemy gets cautious and careful with bodyguards. Instead, try to gather five or ten to a key province, depending on your economy and number of target provinces.

Key provinces... research centers, if you can take em all out. Armies sieging one of your castles (any units dedicated to patrols are NOT tearing down your walls. Best yet, assassinate as many leaders of an invading army as you can while your army is nearby. If they're light on spares, then you'll split their forces in two. And if you're attacking that province (with a scout, even, and the rest of their forces moved out) the unled troopers left behind will rout and scatter further.

After you do this, the bodyguards will be on hand, so it better be a critical moment, unless you have super powered assassins. You sometimes can still assassinate after this, but your loss rate will be higher. With capital only assassins...

One of the more overkill, but effective asssassins I've seen. Only once, for some reason. I don't think you need to go this far. http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...edOverkill.jpg
Now, as you're playing Ctis, you'll probably be facing some priests, since skellyspam is expected. I don't suggest the following tactic once your up against player nations. A Skull Talisman can give that indy mounted commander a couple other things to charge. It gives you one skeletal bodyguard and lets you summon additional ones for 5 fatigue. Script a couple casts, then attack as normal. (You don't want to cast only, or else you'll be out of luck when facing a priest)

A few Empoisoner ideas
D2 Spells castable with gems (pref), or boosters.
Disintegrate (alt 8) (prec 100) + penetration items like Eye of the Void
Raise Skeletons/Dead (ench 3)
N2 spells as above
Storm of Thorns (evo 7) - enough projectiles you might actually hit something, especially if you have the time to cast Eagle Eye (Agartha, Abysia, slow races w/o cavalry)
Sleep Cloud Evo3, Sleep Thau2. (cloud:) Forty-six fatigue approximates -4 def, -2 attack for them, whereas you get a -2, -1 penalty. If you can hit them several times, sleep. Perhaps summoned skeletons to tie them up? (regular:) 110 fatigue equals sleeping target. First problem is its single target, second problem is that both sleep spells can be resisted by MR- not a good thing at all, though with astral randoms comes penetration items.

Untouchable Miasma of Death (construction four)
Snake Bladder Stick
Raw Hide Shield
Cat Charm
Scripts - Attack
Defense - 20
Total Nature Gems - 20

EDIT:
This build is uncomplicated and pretty effective. The high defense means most crappy bodyguards can't touch you while the area-affect poison works.

Ironically, wild carnivorous lizardmen can take you down. They tend to bodyguard their shaman, and have two attacks per warrior, meaning -4 def per attacker. Be careful around them, and avoid them if you skipped the Cat Charm.
[/EDIT]
If you're on a budget, you can just equip the Raw Hide Shield (con 0, 5 gems). It'll let you keep and use both your weapons. Equip two shields and you get a Useless Kick, though you can still spellcast and sling. A Thorny Staff will get you slightly better defense as well as some extra attack, but has its own downsides.

On the other hand, if you want to scale up, there's the Vine Shield, Totem Shield, and Eye Shield, all of which also have zero defense and encumbrance penalties.

There are other things to consider, such as Skullface, and Wraith Crown, if you've got to many gems for your own good, and theres' a lot out there depending on what independents you find.

The most absurd, but mildly plausible combination I can imagine involves (The Ankh - automatic life after death), Carcator the Pocket Lich, Sandals of the Crane (blink), Wraith Crown, Robe of Missile Protection, Treelord's Staff.
Script? Creeping Doom for 70+ ants.

I'm tempted to actually put this together just to see what kind of zombie, if any, 70 ants make.

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

One handy thing I tend to find with assassins is giving them items which will cause problems in your opponent's territories too. A bane venom charm (or the sword with a similar effect) which causes disease and poison, if wielded by a suitably immune assassin, can be neat. You can do the same thing with a scout, however if your assassin can take out commanders too you can prevent portions of his army leaving the province for a couple of turns.

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

"Ranged weapons are affected by the prescision stat, not attack. Try forging an eye of aiming instead. (Don't equip two - you go blind)"

Hah! User error, please replace user and press any key. This kind of thing happens to me all the time, the game is way too complicated to play casually but I like it all the same. The only reason I gave him all that stuff was because I stole it from Bogus and his merry band of misfits. Basically every new game shows me how little I know about the underlying mechanics of the game.

lazy_perfectionist, thanks for the in depth post. I definitely need more practice with assassins, but usually a fight starts with the opponent casting raise dead, phantasmal warrior, etc. and it's already over unless I summon an equal or greater amount of chaff.

It seems to me that with the dizzying amount of options available in the game, I could do better with a Wraith Lord, Mind Hunting, etc. I see that there are a few situations in which an assassin is a unique answer to the problem at hand, but would I have 5 well equipped assassins in the right place at the right time? Probably not.

One last question; how easily are assassins killed on the world map? Does the fact that the assassin is sitting in an enemy controlled province give him/her any protection from Mind Hunting and similar spells? Basically are assassin's reusable or is killing an enemy commander the equivalent of a death sentence?

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Sorry im late to the thread. Don't buy tees from Dirty Microbe! They are a scam.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

Assasins:

You can recruit a simple assasin for (I think) 60 gold.
-> The assasin will kill around untill the first target is lucky.

Then you can equip an assasin with the skull earring, or have empoisoners.
-> The assasin will kill around untill some smart commander has some bodyguards.

Then, you can equip your assasin with the really expencive stuff.
-> The assasin will kill his targets, untill he runs into a province with good (~30) provincial defence and some patrolers.


Most of the time assasins simply don't pay off.

But there are situations...
Imagine the opponent attacking your border with lot's of commanders/troops.
Your assasin is in the province and kills one commander, who controlls half of the army. He is now warned and your assasin will have a hart time to kill another one but at this point, the other half of the army allready ran into your forces. Same with troops that have Mage support and then either the troops or the support fails to show up in the fight.

PS: And don't forget that the countermeasures agains a good assasin cost quite some gold/gems. If you manage to sneak up to an opponent research fortress, attack once or twice and then leave. He will likely raise provincial defence into the sky and summon some mean bodyguards, what means less defence/troops at your frontline.


Oh, iirc ... I think blood slaves made some really cheep chaff in Assasinations.

Re: Assassination n00b.
 

One thing about assasins is also that they limit your opponent's chances at scripting his mages. Especially if you have "uber"-assasins who don't care about bodyguards. Suddenly scripting "Summon Earthpower, Army of Lead" is a dead sentence.

You can't believe how sad it is to see a Illusionist cast "Mass Flight" against an Earth Elemental. Or having Sauromancers cast "Leeching Darkness" against high hp assasins and killing their own bodyguards..

Re: A hell of a waste of gems
 

1). You're welcome.
2). Would you have five well-equipped assassins in the right place at the right time? You may have gotten the wrong idea from me. I'm not a fan of the thug-assassin approach, but instead favor quantity over quality. A spell such as Tupilak fails as often as not, for instance, but is useful (although too pricy). As Ctis, you can manage 10 assassins at 110 gold each, unequipped.

If even a three manage to take out key targets, at the right time, you've got a potential bargain. If killing three 110 gold mages saves 70 infantry, you've made your money back.

I do not favor use of assassins as a form of attrition, however. Kill and attack, is how I use them.

3). The key to avoiding summons is using the enemy's own momentum against him. If he's expecting a minor battle, or researching away, he likely will have summon skeleton scripted. If he expects to face a dozen wights, he'll probably have wither bones or Dust to Dust scripted instead, leaving it to auto spellcasting when there are no valid targets. As well, spell AI sometimes overrides gem use when it determines an enemy isn't a big enough threat, overruling that 'Living Earth'. If he's expecting a large, pitched battle where he needs to pull out ALL the stops, the very first spell scripted by those random astral marshmasters will likely be astral communions.

Asssasins require bait, traps, and timing. Any uber-equipped assassin can be wasted by simply spamming indie commanders, though there are times that better equiped assasins are handy. (as an aside, that build I mentioned early works quite nicely). If you wait until a situation comes along where the enemy has to script for maximum potential, you avoid counters or at least make them waste gems.

It's worth noting that magical beings require magical leadership. If you can figure out a way to kill that commander before you're killed, all those summons die as well. In that situation, melee is not the way to go.
On the plus side, if the timings right, and they just wasted so many gems on a single asssasin instead of your army, that may be agod trade as well, if you can take advantage of that before they restock from a scout or what not.

4). Killing an enemy commander does not have to be the equivalent of a death sentence. Sure, if you have one thug picking away each turn at the capital, someones going to come after him. But if you present the enemy with a dilemma... If you have raiding parties going on, anything patrolling is not hunting down your raiders. If you have an army threatening them, anything patrolling the countryside is outside of the fortress, exposed to attack, rather than bolstering the defenses of a long siege.

As a side note, it really only takes about 80 militia to guarantee the death of an assassin. Less with PD. If you have an army nearby, or remote summon spells, then that militia (no Abysian PD, please, ouch) either has to expose itself, unsupported, to attack and slaughter by a small detachment or they have to take mages off of research/summoning/rituals in order to give their patrollers proper support. A win-win situation.

Worth noting is that unrest decreases the effectiveness of patrols. A Black Servant with a bane venom charm can serve for about a turn before patrols catch up (move out soon), increasing unrest. Battles such as scouts and assassins also increase unrest. Neither fast enough alone to enable survival, but combined with hit&run, spell support such as Baleful Star or Blight, it can make retaliation impossible.

One way to preserve thugged assassins is to let the enemy invade and take your lands BEFORE you retaliate. If the enemy's just encroached on your land, overtax provinces around three deep to 200%. Not only will this raise funds for the war, but the unrest generated by this and the invading army will make it much harder to detect your assassins.