Sillmarilion
 

Hey all. I was wondering if anyone made a scenario/Mod based on the Sillmarilion or are useing the charecters from the Sil.. (Morgoth, Valar, Miar, Firstborn elves)? I havent bought this game yet but will be soon. From what I can tell this game would be really good for a first age Middle Earth Scenario/Mod. Thanx

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Well, The Lord of the Rings universe has never really been magic-heavy. I haven't read the books in like ~7 years, but if I recall correctly, the only time Gandalf ever really used any destructive magic was frying a bunch of Goblins with lighting in The Hobbit.

But then again, with Morgoth/Valar/Miar being the gods that they are, Magic would fit in well enough. Such a mod would require making the appropriate map(s), and modding in a bunch of civs, so it'd probably be a lot of work.

I read the silmarillion again this past winter, so I think the civs would probably be:
Morgoth
Valar/Miar
High Elves? (the ones that stayed in Valinor)
High Elves? (the ones that followed Feanor back to fight Morgoth)
Dark Elves? (the ones that never went to Valinor)
Dwarves
Men
Note: I don't recall the specific names, like Noldar/Sindar and such.
And the "Characters" would only be useful as pretenders or heros, so you wouldn't get to use them all the much anyway.

In any case, I'm not sure how well Lord of the Rings fits in with the Dominions universe.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

You'd wanna add an Orcs/Trolls/Dragons/Balrogs race in there too. Corrupted humans might merit a race on their own too.
But yeah, it'd be a lot of work, but totally worth it.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

I agree about LOTR 3rd age Middle earth. But 1st age seemed extreemly magical to me even though spells as such wearnt mentioned much. I have always thought it would be a great setting for high fantasy, HIGH power in a game ...so far no one has done it in any game( though age of magic has a few LOTR mods)

True Gandalf didnt overtly use magic but he was a Miar (Istari) of Manwe and was not to use power so openly I believe. He did kill a Balrog as well. Though no real description was given of the fight I find it hard to believe that he didnt use quite a few spells in dealing with it. But I am not really intersted in 3rd age anyway, just thought 1st age would be perfect.

I havent played this game yet, maybe it is not what I am anticipating?

Re: Sillmarilion
 

How easy is it to create and add new races/units to the game?

Re: Sillmarilion
 

The hardest part I think is actually getting graphics for all the units. I haven't modded for Dominions, but from what I understand, its not complicated.

Gandalf was a Miar huh? don't recall every reading about what the wizards actually were...but I haven't read all of the LoTR extra stuff either. I knew Sauron was a Miar though. I guess it would make sense overall.

I wouldn't think corrupted humans would warrant a race, I'd think they'd all fall under Morgoth's group.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Yeah Gandalf ( and Sauruman and Radaghast) is/are Miar but not of the same power level as Tom Bomadil Or Sauron; powerful non the less though. Much more powerful than he is written in the books. I believe there is more about this in -"Unfinished tales"

A real good resource for then different names and power levels is from the Old TLOTR role playing game (based on the Role master system)--The lords of Middle earth Vol 1 and 2. They helps to make sence of all the differant names in the books. Also the website "Encyclopedia of Arda" is outstanding.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Good grief I would love this!

All the Wizards were Maiar. Saruman was sent by Aule, and was of the same class of Maiar as Sauron. Radagast was sent by Nienna(?) to protect the trees and animals in the tumults that were to follow. Pallando and Alatar were sent by Orome. Gandalf was sent by Manwe himself, but he was a Maiar of one of the other Valar.

Tom Bombadil was not a Maiar, but I don't think they explained exactly what he was. Melian was the other Maiar that figured prominently in the Silmarillion, she was married to Thingol.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Well it seems you are correct on the origin of Bombadil warhammer. At least according to the encyclopedia of Arda. In my "Lords of Middle earth" compendium for MERP (Middle Earth Role Playing game) he is listed a Maiar. However he is never listed among them. He was never said not to be Maia though....He could be Vala as there were Lesser unnamed Vala? But again no one knows. Tolken himself said he left Bombadil an enigma-- 'And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).'-- Interesting. Kind of a mystery like where did Ungoliant come from? Thanks for the correction

Anyway I would love this too and am surprised no one has made a mod like this for any game? You dont get any more High fantasy than the Silmarillion

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Modding dominions is very easy, and quite a number of modded nations have already been created. I'm working on one myself - it's good fun. The time consuming part is indeed creating the graphics, although the face that only two fairly low-res sprites are needed per unit makes it reasonably manageable.

I think Foodstamp already did a Rohan mod - you can probably find it in the mods forum.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Hardest part might be dodging the lawyers, if they ever notice.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

I contacted Tolkien Enterprises for permission on creating a Mordor nation for our dominion3 community, but they denied my request.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Then just make one and pass it around the forums. Without a link to it on a website then it isn't official enough to be able to go after, no? Its not like it'll be "officially suported" by Illwinter or anything.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

You guys are nerds.

Just joking. I would love a Silmarillion mod. Maybe change the names slightly, to avoid litigation? I know there was a Civ 2 mod that was very Tolkien based, but with the names changed. And it survived for a long time, and was very popular.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

I don't think they would ever bother with litigation. They'd never notice for a start. And in the extremely unlikely event that they threatened you - well, you could just take it down. Nothing more serious than that.

Sombre's producing Warhammer mods, there've been no problems there. And the one he's finished already, Skaven, is quite excellent and worth checking out incidentally.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Im afraid that doesnt work here. On non-corporate forums that would be the standard response and it would be true. But on company owned forums you will come up against the forum controls first. If it falls into a category that it COULD draw unwanted attention from another corporation then any link to it will likely be deleted long before any such action could occur.

You and I can operate that way but Shrapnel cant. They cant be insensitive to copyrights. We have had it happen on Shrapnels forums before and had to delete links to mods. In some cases people were able to ask and get permission from the copyright holders. If there are any that you feel use graphics directly, or use too much specific reference, feel free to report them so that staff can pass judgement.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Alright, I'm not going to complain about your point, because Shrapnel and Illwinter do have to cover their rear's legally.

As far as copyright goes, copyright laws (and patent laws for that matter) exist to encourage creativity by ensuring that the creators will get some sort of financial reward. So if I were to make a Lord of the Rings game and started selling it, thats infrigement because that could be taking away sales from official games. The same can be said if you got a Copy-Machine and started makes Copies of "The Fellowship of the Ring" and selling them to friends. But creating a mod for a game such as this will NOT impact the copyright holder financially at all, and furthermore in this case the law is actually stifling creativity, which contradicts its purpose, and thus is one of the tragedies of copyright law. (piracy is a seperate issue)

However, since I won't be making any such mod anyway, it doesn't affect me. (And when I make board or video games, I have no need to use existing intellectual property anyway)

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Wow that is kind of a trip actually. I have seen dozens of differant star wars and star trek mods for many differnat games,(Stardock's site comes to mind) I highly doubt they all had permission from the powers that be... This is the first time I have encountered talk of copy right taken so seriously when talking of players making mods? So basically we can only post our own mod based on a story we created, we cant access the many great worlds and ideas already out there? Hmmm... First for me. Oh well I guess I will try and just Mod it for myself.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Anyone who is concerned about involving Shrapnel in legal issues might consider posting a link to their mod in a different place. For instance, linking from Wikipedia or StrategyWiki, or asking Gandalf to host it on Dom3minions. I'm quite uncertain of the trademark issues myself (another reason my Malazan mod has not been released) but if the forum ownership is all that's stopping you, you could try it.

-Max

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Yeah, if necessary put the file somewhere else and just let us know here. It's criminal if people have made great mods based on other fantasy worlds and they're forced to keep them to themselves.

To be honest any nation mods we make based on other people's stuff is just going to act as advertising for them anyway. They'd be very silly to make a fuss of it (not that I'm saying Shrapnel shouldn't - but I don't think we need to worry about be hunted down if we host the file elsewhere and just link to it here).

Re: Sillmarilion
 

There's issues of copyright (derivative work) and trademark dilution. For one fairly infamous case in point, 20th Century Fox threatened legal action over the 'Aliens TC' mod for Doom, and quite probably would have won had it gone to court. In the case of a -game- where it is entirely plausible that the holder of the original IP has an economic interest in authorizing computer games and benefiting from the licensing terms -- doing the mod yourself an distributing it can be rather problematic.

Hence, it's unsurprising if Shrapnel prefers to hedge its bets and not be seen to facilitate such, particularly in a moderated forum where they do exercise some editorial control over what posts get removed.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Gotta protect the rights o' the corporations that somehow own every thought and expression related to the work of someone who's dead and had nothing to do with those corporations when he was alive.

Oh ya. Sigh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_Enterprises

Re: Sillmarilion
 

I dont think we have acted on text content before. Mostly its been things abit more obvious such as graphics and sound clips taken directly from other sources. Especially if the person publicly says thats where they got them. As I used to tell my charges in the military "I might not go hunting for violations, but dont expect me to break my neck trying to look the other way if you hold it up in front of me".

Whether its logical or not, I would hope that anyone would be careful about endangering Shrapnel and Illwinter.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

So did Illwinter get permission from whoever owns the Lovecraft copyrights for R'lyeh and Deep Ones, and from WoTC for illithids and Aboleths? (I'm pretty sure both of those are original to D&D, though certainly inspired by the Cthulhu Mythos)

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Lovecraft stuff isn't copywrited, as far as I know. It's open source, aka, in the public domain.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

If you *really* want to see a whole host of copyright offenses, have a close look at peoples' icons sometime.

Nobody in-or even only somewhat out-of their right mind is going to try persuing it though, because it's an "homage" rather than a violation.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Luckily Dr. Mario hasn't sued me yet.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

And you, HoneyBadger, have STOLEN intellectual property from the company with THE most hardcore set of IP lawyers. I'll see you in jail... assuming old AD&D monster manual from 1979 is owned by Hasbro as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Sillmarilion
 

You can have my rhysorian badger when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!

Ofcourse, you're advised to do so if and when the rhysorian badger is also cold and dead.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

This depends upon the country, and the year of publication, actually. Lovecraft copyrights are a mess.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

That's quite possible.

I would suggest a good rule of thumb when things are unclear is: "Don't charge money for it"...unless you find you *can*.

If you find that you *can* charge money for it, then the rule becomes: "disclosures are your friend".

Make it clear that you don't know if the issue is in question and you believe it's public domain, but if it's not, you'll do something to fix the problem. Don't show your hand by saying *what* you'll do-just make it clear that you'll do something.

If, however, you suddenly find it's *raining buckets of money*, see rule three, which is: "Hire a lawyer to protect yourself, and then hire a second lawyer to protect you from the first one".

Oh and don't forget to send me my advisory fee-at 5% of the gross, it's reasonable enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Disclosure to the proceeding (above) statements: I am not a lawyer, in any shape or form, nor am I a person, or a sueable entity, as pertains to any laws that would allow anyone to sue me. I do not-infact-exist. I live-if I lived, which I do not-in a place beyond all laws, mortal or immortal, guarded by a vicious dog, and I spend all my free time polishing my shotgun.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Yes, my icon is Hunter S. Thompson's Gonzo logo. I don't think he would mind though

Re: Sillmarilion
 

He won't, he's dead.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

HoneyBadger is correct, I just asked him... he doesn't mind now that he's dead.... or undead actually.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

How did he enjoy that ride out of the cannon?

I can't believe a Silmarillion mod thread has digressed into summoning the ghost of Hunter Thompson.

Re: Sillmarilion
 

Well, Tolkien and Thompson were both fantasists-and I for one would rather see a mod based on Thompson's works than on Tolkien's.