Sauromatian units
 

The Hydra Tamer
Have anyone found a use for this unit? I know he is the only commander with poison resistance in the Sauromatian arsenal, but besides that he pretty much stinks. He cannot lead more than 10 units and he doesn't have any armor. Could you perhaps outfit him somehow to make him useful?

I believe he is meant to lead the hydras into battle but the Soothsayer does it so much better. With a ring of poison resistance he can also cast body ethereal on the hydras.


The Soothsayer
Pros

- Astral magic (1). Though the Enarie also has it but for 150 gold.
- Cancels bad events in the province he visits. How high is this bonus anyways? But the Enarie can do this too.
- Comes with a ring mail cuirass.
- Good at leading and buffing hydras. Needs poison resistance first.

Cons

- Starts with old age.
- 70 gold for 3rp when the Spirit Guide cost 60 gold for the
same research. So not a good researcher. Is this unweighed by the "cancels bad event" ability?
- Comes with a ring mail cuirass. But what use is it really? It costs resource points.

How do you use these units? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Anyone thought of good blesses for this nation?

Re: Sauromatian units
 

> - Comes with a ring mail cuirass. But what use is it really? It costs resource points.

Makes him look nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

> - Cancels bad events in the province he visits. How high is this bonus anyways?

5% IIRC

> Anyone thought of good blesses for this nation?

Seems everyone answers W9 to this on most nations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Works well with high def troops.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Thank you for you answers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

A water bless with Sauromatia would directly point to Lady of Springs as the chosen pretender. However, the Gorgon is looking more tasty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The problem is the blesses with the Gorgon. High earth is perhaps nice on the Androphags and Oiorpatas, but nature?

Perhaps there are better alternatives?

Re: Sauromatian units
 

You might not need a bless strat with a gorgon ?

Androphag archers ?

Re: Sauromatian units
 

But the Gorgon is so cheap you can afford blesses. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Also made a discovery, the call ancestor spirit is sacred, how interesting...

Androphag archers are hard to use with anything but hydras and undead (like shades and spirits). Not something Sauromatia has a hard thing to muster though.
I wish there was a way to to make the androphags and oiorpatas resistant early on. Oh, wait, there is, poison ward! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Another question:
How high is the Enaries chance to prevent bad events?

Re: Sauromatian units
 

An example pretender I came up with:

Dormant Lady of Springs

Dominion 5
This may be too low but the sacreds cost a lot initially so you can't really afford that many. Plenty of time to build temples to raise the dominion.

Magic: 9W; 4N

Scales:
Order 2
Production 2
Heat 1
Misfortune 2 (you have Enaries and Soothsayers)
Magic 1


I haven't tested it yet so I don't really know if it is any good. Feel free to post your own Sauromatian pretenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Demas,

One of my favorite builds with this nation is the Blood Fountain (imprisioned).

Magic: F4; W9; E1; B6

Scales:
Order 3
Heat 2
Growth 1
Drain 2

If the drain bugs you, substitute the misfortune instead. Or, tip misfortune twice & add 2 production. This nation's blessable troops with the enhancements derived from above, backed up by poision archers, will chew up almost anything in the game. Also, by the time your Blood Fountain breaks free you're ready to make your first Soul Contract without the need of enhancement items. Nasty.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Indeed! That is a nasty fountain! I must try it someday. Maybe a bit much with a drain scale as Sauromatia's researchers aren't really that good. But you can, as you wrote yourself, switch it for misfortune. And with the help of Enaries, Soothsayers and order it isn't so bad.
Thanks for sharing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


I made some changes to my pretender's scales:
Production lowered 2 to 0. Found no use for it at all. When you have the sacred quickness blessed cavalry you don't really need the heavy cavalry. Also raised dominion to 7. Nature raised to 5 with the spare points. Maybe it will come in handy later on?

Found out that building a Witch King early on, making him your prophet, giving him some Androphags and then setting out on a crusade of mayhem against the enemies provinces is very effective. But why is that effective I hear you say?
1. He is your prophet, spreading your dominion.
2. He is very though when blessed with above bless and made prophet. And accompanied by his fellow Androphags he is hard to destroy.
3. He causes fear and is very fast making him an ideal pillager.
4. He has blood and can blood hunt, so why not on enemy territory!
5. Has his own standard so you don't need to worry about bad morale in enemy territory. This is true for many of the thematically supposed raiders of Sauromatia.
6. It is thematic that he rides around killing people, eating them, making some blood slaves and then rides home to sacrifice them in some gory ritual http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Try it yourself, it is fun and messy.


Made some changes to the pretender again: Production 3, sloth 1. Too much resources...

Re: Sauromatian units
 

I'm just trying Sauromatia now, I'm using a 9e 4n 4w bless. Once blessed Oiorpata have 17 protection and 20 defense (more once they get some stars, which happens fast), and regenerate 1 hp per turn which is perfect for letting them mix with the Androphag archers who compensate for the Oiorpata's relatively low damage output (for elite units) and the reinvig gives them some serious staying power. That blessing also allows Warrior Sorceresses to become pretty effective thugs for real cheap. Give them a frost brand, script blessing, protection, (plus quicken self if they get a water bless), attack closest...pretty ridiculously effective for 160 gold and 5w, and recruitable anywhere so have swarms of them! Let them lead small-medium groups of Androphag archers for extra nastiness (cast resist poison if you do this).

Speaking of which, Enaries make better leaders for the hydras than Soothsayers, if you cast resist poison round one it'll go off before they get effected by the poison cloud so no need to use gems on a snake ring. Also, if you send extra Enaries they can skellispam which gives the ethereal hydras some serious staying power.

No use for production?!?! The units are not particularly resource intensive, but you do have several *very* good units which are capital only. I've found production-3 pays off in spades long term as it lets you recruit a steady flow of Oiorpata as well as a hoard of Androphag archers. The Androphag archers are not only just generally devastating, they're also an answer to most things which can threaten your Oiorpatas in EA (Jaguar warriors, Vans), but they need critical mass to work right. Obviously you can play it a different way, but I've found Androphags are far and away the best recruitable archers in the game and they alone justify production scales as I can never get enough. Even in your non cap fortresses the Lancers and Cataphracts are quite a good uses for resources.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Nice tips Baalz! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Maybe I didn't play enough for production to pay off? Probably not as I had lots and lots of resources left once I used up all my gold.

Oh, have you tried using Androphags instead of Oiorpatas? On paper they seem pretty much the same but when the Androphag rider dies you have a nifty blessable lizard left with about 30hp. Quite nice for 60 gold I'd say! They are capital only of course, but that don't stop you from recruiting Oiorpatas everywhere else.

Sorry, I just noticed that Oiorpatas are capital only too. Anyway, I believe the Androphags are a bit better, not as fast but tougher and stronger.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Someone found any use for Soothsayer and Hydra Tamer yet? They seem pretty superfluous to me.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

My current pretender (I'm quite happy with it):

Dormant Lady of Springs

Dominion 7

Magic: 9W; 5N

Scales:
Order 3
Production -1
Heat 1
Misfortune 2
Magic 1

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Soothsayers are good communion slaves. Powerful in combo with enaries.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Didn't think of communion. Good catch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Errr, I'm at work now and can't look at the stats, but it seems like when I looked at the Androphag and Oiorpatas the Oiorpatas had a little better stats for the money, and 1 or 2 points in defense and protection really make a difference when they're high. Plus they have higher movement which gives a bonus to the lance first strike (and easier flanking). I did, however, forget about the free lizard so maybe I'll have to take another look. Are they sacred?

For communion slaves I'd recommend considering Enaries over Soothsayers. If Enaries (or Witch Kings don't - forget sabbath master) are the communion masters you're going to end up with a lot of death spells cast (raise dead in particular after your scripting runs out), and the Soothsayers with no death paths are gonna pop pretty fast. You're better off having 2 Enarie communion slaves than 4 Soothsayers under those conditions...4 Enarie slaves and you can raise undead until the cows come home.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

The free lizard is sacred.

The Androphags have 2 more hp and 2 more strength. So they pack more punch but have less protection, although they come with the free 28 hp sacred lizard. They also cost less resources but more gold.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

And what about the leg troops? You have the Amazon, a pretty stable unit, and also the regular archer with composite bow and precision 11.

Then you have all all the other cavalry:
Raider
Lancer
Sauromatian Raider
Sauromatian Lancer
Sauromatian Cataphract

The hydras (both capital only):
Hydra spawn (is this unit worth its points?)
Hydra (a good solid unit)

This nation has pretty varied choices.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

> Hydra spawn (is this unit worth its points?)

Unlikely. It gets a cost reduction in the patch. Also hydras are made wierd. So I have no clue if they will be more or less effective than before.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

I've never played Sauro but just from looking at the description you list, the Soothsayer is valuable in giving you scale points. Don't stop at misfortune 2, push all the way to misfortune 3 and then place the soothsayers in your key provinces. Of course it will not protect you completely, but from what I recall, these misfortune bonuses stack. So you can do a lot to offset a 40 design point gain just by choosing your researchers accordingly.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

I don't know that the hydra-tamer is really especially useful-in my opinion, he could use a net to go with his trident, and default to hydra-skin armor (someone else's good idea).

BUT-I will say, he *looks* very cool! Enough that I regularly try, and usually fail, to field atleast a small force of these guys.

I kindof visualize him as a Conanish figure (As seen on the cover of the original novel-swarthier than Howard had intended, but a great pic-and definitely not the Gubernator.).

Re: Sauromatian units
 

The thing is the Enaries get the same feat with regards to preventing bad events, aren't old, and are only slightly less cost effective researchers (depending on your scales), and (assuming you can afford the cost difference) will launch your research faster than the Soothsayers. If you go with Enarie researchers you can take a death scale in addition to your misfortune scale - something I ordinarily avoid like the plague. (sorry, couldn't resist) Plus then you've got really effective fortress defenders, much better forgers, and just a whole lot more utility.

The regular archer is good, one of the better archers cost wise, but I like the lancers a lot better in most cases. They get the same composite bow but pack quite a punch when the enemy manages to get back to your archers. They're every bit as good as LA T'ien Ch'i's cavalry, so you can switch them to a heavy cavalry role as the situation merits. If you do need to mass regular archers it's usually worthwhile to put lancers in front of your regular archers so they'll have to be dealt with first after the enemy has run all the way across the field in withering arrow fire.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Soothsayers should be useful for magic dueling, especially against enemy communions.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Ah, I wasnt aware that enaries had the misfortune bonus also - as I said I've never played Sauro. But the advice remains the same with regards to the ability in the general sense. If you have a misfortune prevention unit, thier use is to mine the Misfortune Scale for as much points as possible.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

What are the best non-archer units to produce outside your capital? In general I don't like spending 40+ gold on any unit with 10hp, so the higher end horse units don't appeal to me. The amazons are ok, but I'd much rather produce archers, which is Sauromatia's strength. I feel like I'm doing something wrong using indy infantry in the mid-game.

Someone suggested using the armored horse archers in front of the regular archers, I haven't tried that yet. Is that what most people do?

Re: Sauromatian units
 

I'm not sure the misfortune prevention units are as good as they seem.

The worst consequence of high misfortune (especially with death) is a catastrophic event in the first few turns. You won't have enough Enaries/Soothsayers at that point to have a good chance of stopping it.

Later on, you can protect a few key provinces, but for a lot of events it doesn't really matter where they happen (gold loss/gem loss/etc). And you'll still be losing provinces to indy attacks. Not the important ones, but you'll still have to retake them, and the important ones are fortified/garrisoned anyway.
Since there's a 3 even/turn limit, so events stopped by misfortune preventers count against that limit, or does it just let another event happen elsewhere?

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Sure, its a gamble. But misfortune always is. If you lose in the first couple of turns - well, thats that. But as your empire grows the relative effect of Misfortune will lessen anyway. Misfortune-effecting units simply allow you to manipulate the chances more favorably to yourself. Or perhaps more importantly: more favorably than the other competing players can.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

I've been trying turmoil 1 and luck 1 with great effect. Besides nice events luck also gives you better creatures when crossbreeding, something Witch Kings can do.

Some turmoil seems thematically suited for this nation as it is composed of two (or more?) different tribes: the "Man Flayers" and the "Amazons". Also, the description for turmoil states that a land of turmoil is a "dangerous but interesting place to visit". This seems to fit Sauromatia when you think about the swamps, warrior women and cannibalizing Man Flayers.

Lots of magic in the air also seems right so I go with magic 3; a nice boost to the cheap researchers.

Sauromatia is a fertile land blessed with rivers, dense swamps and lush valleys. So I take growth 3.

My current pretender:

------
Imprisoned Oracle

Dominion 8
For all those blessables!

Magic: S9
For twist fate, crazy with Oiorpatas and Androphags.

Scales:
Turmoil 1

Production 3
The Sauromatians are a crafty warlike folk who like hard work.

Growth 3
Inspired by the Dawn of Dominions map; also needed to get past the negative gold with turmoil.

Luck 1
Crossbreeding and nice heroes.

Magic 3
Very nice boost to the Enaries research and skelly spam (mostly for defense, goes well with their map move of 1).
------

And there you have it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I will soon see if it is any good in the long run.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

I apologize for going off the Sauromatia subject (Which I haven't played it...), but in regards to Crossbreading, does personal luck improve it? If you equip the mage with, say, a Pendant of Luck, will that result in better creatures too?

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Nope, only the luck of the province will improve results.

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Only a very sharp knife will improve crossbreading. Remember to brush the tops with egg white to get that crispy brown crust.

http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes.../hotcross5.jpg

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Strange ideas you have about what's intresting... Remind me never to come live next door to you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Sauromatian units
 

Remember the unnerving clatter you hear from under your bed at night? Yes, that is me typing on my wlan connected laptop posting on this forum! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif