Banish to inferno-questions
 

1. If my pretender was banished to inferno, would her globals remain up since she is not dead?

2. I am assuming immortals banished to the inferno do not appear back at the capital the next turn since they are not technically dead.

3. What province do those returning from the inferno appear in?

Suggestions for blood

1. i would like to see the cost of some of the combat blood spells be upped significantly. Blood slaves are quite easy
to accumulate and 1 blood slave for a 40 plus AN spell that cannot be resisted seems way too powerful. Same with banish to inferno.

2. horrors should be immune to banish to inferno. if horrors are intended to be near certain death for most mages, why should blood mages get a free pass?

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

About blood costs...

Slaves are easy to come by, but I think this is balanced out by three things, and blood shouldn't have its combat spell's cost, in slaves, upgraded because of this.

1. Slaves have a physical presence on the field. They die en masse to things like earthquake, firestorm, and other battlefield wide enchantments.
2. Almost all blood spells already have a component cost. Most normal mid level nukes, and even some high level ones, do not have any component cost. Almost all of Blood's good combat spells already require slaves which involves the micromanagement of keeping them alive from one combat to the next and shuttling them around when need be. I don't think there's any reason to punish blood nations over regular nations.
3. Blood slaves cost income. All other gem types do not. Sure you can get as many slaves as you want, but gem sites only have to be searched for once and they produce forever, where as blood sites eventually dry up, and require constant supervision to produce.

About banish to inferno...

2. They shouldn't be immune. A level 1 astral mage gets an even easier pass in the form of "returning" which is cast on the first turn and automatically saves them from battle no matter which horror they are fighting.

Jazzepi

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

Yeah but astral mages get everything.

including the ability to cast the mark in the 1st instance. what about the numerous races with no astral mages?

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

While I am currently engaged in a bloody war with you, I will answer your questions because I'm a pretty awesome guy in general... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

1. Yes.

2. Right.

3. Random province. So, in Perpetuality, we are looking at a thousand provinces, so I think you can write that Banelord off. Bwa ha ha!!! He might be able to fight off the province defense of the place he lands in, but good luck ever getting home.

Also, I've seen some guys stay in Hell for over 30 turns, and I've heard that some guys can die in there, so don't get too attached.

As to your suggestions:
1. Life for a Life is Research level Blood 8 and has a fatigue cost of 199(one blood slave). When compared to other spells for other colors that do similar things (Frozen Heart at Alteration, Drain Life, etc), the cost to get into blood is very high already.

I mean, blood is the very weakest color and Research Path when it comes to fighting large battles. Just because my skill at blood magic is great does not change that.

2. Nah. Why would someone who has learned how to summon Horrors not learn to dismiss them?

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

Thank you K, you are a gentleman. But the question pertains to Alpaca as well. BTW, that banelord will enjoy a wind ride home when he reappears. That is your tip for the day!

That would be cool if he dropped in on one of my enemies' provinces and could just resume his raiding!

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

Please let us know if the wind ride works on friendly commanders. It seems to be broken vs enemies. We would like to get some info on this.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

K said:
1. Life for a Life is Research level Blood 8 and has a fatigue cost of 199(one blood slave). When compared to other spells for other colors that do similar things (Frozen Heart at Alteration, Drain Life, etc), the cost to get into blood is very high already.

Yeah K, but the range of frozen heart is like 20 and drain life 25, life for a life is 100. Reduce its range to the same as frozen heart and I am fine with it.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

Frozen heart is negated by cold immunity. Drain life is not supposed to be
affected by anything, but I don't know... I've had unique ice devils live
for a few turns against a crowd of sauromacers spamming drain life, and then
at least two of them retreated successfully.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

Lets break it down.

All of the spells don't check MR, and are armor negating.

Frozen Heart is fatigue 20, can be cast by a Water 1 mage, and comes in at Alteration 6. It has a range of 20+, and can be negated by cold immunity, and has a damage of 10+.

Drain Life is fatigue 10 (but not really since the lifedrain life actually removes fatigue, so lets just say 0 since 32 out of 36 times the total fatigue from the spell is 0 or removes existing fatigue from previous spellcasting and/or armor fatigue), can be cast by a Death 4 mage, and comes in at Alteration 5. It has a range of 25, and cannot be negated for its 14+ damage.

Life for a Life is fatigue 199 (1 slave), can be cast by a Blood 3 mage(but not really since no mage will cast a spell whose total fatigue takes them past 200 and with armor fatigue is will be for all but a minority of mages, so lets say Blood 4 is the minimum), and it it comes in at Blood 8. It has a range of 100, cannot be negated, and does 40+ damage.

So, looking at these stats we see that in one casting of each spell you get an unconscious Blood 4 mage who has burned a gem type that he had to bring to the battle, a Water 1 mage with 20 +armor fatigue and a Death 4 mage with 0 fatigue, and the damages are 40+, 10+, and 14+.

Turn two and the Blood 4 mage is still most likely unconscious, the Water 1 mage gains another 20+armor fatigue for another 10+ damage, and the Death 4 mage is still at 0 fatigue for his 14+.

Basically, the Blood mage needs a very expensive mage to cast the spell, spends gems to do it, can basically do it once a battle, had to go to a research level of 8 to get it thus making it an endgame tactic, and we are not even considering the commitment the player had to make to focus on the Blood research path instead of Alteration that has great things for all colors of magic at almost every level.

Frozen Heart can be cast by independant mages you find like Jade Amazons and noncapital mages of the Water magic races, and the total damage is still higher per battle. Drain Life requires capital-only mages or summonable mages (or one of those making those banners), and be cast basically every turn of battle so in a modest 20 round battle an individual is doing 280+ points of damage to enemies and has 0 fatigue.


The one advantage Life for a Life has (100 range, and best damage in a single casting) is really offset by the fact that if anyone can ax your blood slaves you can't cast it at all. Basically, at the very best its a "lose one mage for the battle to hopefully kill a monster."

The only reason I'm even defending it is so that Blood mages get any battle magic at all. If you replaced it at Blood 8 with Drain Life but castable by even a Blood 4 mage, I don't think we'd see any complaints.

I just think you hate it when people kill your SC Banelords. To that I say "too bad". To be a good Dominions player you have to learn to not get attached to all of your units. War in dominions is not just about leaders, but about armies, magic, economy, diplomacy and guile, and this game's great strength is that there is no single killer tactic that ensures that you'll win, but that there are a variety of ways to grow your empire and defeat your enemies.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

Mages can cast a spell that'd cause them to get more than 200 fatigue. Mages can't kill themselves with one casting. You can cast even Army of Lead (several hundred points of fatigue) with caster without any extra levels or gems, and he won't get more than 200 points of fatigue (and thus no damage).

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

I've found that in my use of Blood and Air magic, thats not quite true. Mages will very often "go off script" and not cast spells with more that 100 fatigue, especially if they have any fatigue.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

Just a few non-aligned questions and observations:

* Is Drain Life not countered by being Lifeless or Undead?

* Will not a Blood-4 mage use more than one blood slave when casting Life for a Life, to reduce his fatigue cost?

* Blood also has a spell which can wipe out a caster's fatigue for one blood slave.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

K,

Do you have any idea how many banelords i have? No losing 1 or 3 does not cause me much grief. My concern is not for any 1 game i am playing. If you hit my banelord with it at 40 range(and you could most are set to attack) i have no issue with the spell. For the damage, and the fact it cannot be resisted, my own personal feeling is it has too great a range.

That does not mean i am right, or you are wrong. It is not personal. I have just stated my opinion.

*i lost a banelord already this game with 7 items to drain life spam, and i said not a word. My guy was in range of the enemies mages, and anytime that happens you will only live so long. I have played roughly 30 give or take 10 either way mp games. Trust me i have lost sc's to the whole gauntlet of spells. I do not get attached to banelords. I like them because they are effective for a low gem cost.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

PvK

*Yes.

*Sure. Then they cast as a Blood 5 and only take 67 +armor Fatigue. They might even cast it again, but that doesn't change the fact that similar spells do much more overall damage over battles while still being cheaper in fatigue and not costing gems.

*Reinvigoration will do just that, at the price of a blood slave and a scripting slot. Strategically, losing a slot is incredibly bad.

X,

I'm sure your Banelords are many. I just think its hilarious to watch 60 gems worth of commander and equipment go up in smoke.

That being said, if you look at the raw gem cost and fatigue, a spell with those costs should affect the whole battlefield or whole armies. The fact that it only hits one person on the field for a decent amount of damage is its only saving grace.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

OT K Said:

"Im sure your Banelords are many. I just think its hilarious to watch 60 gems worth of commander and equipment go up in smoke."

You have your play style, I have mine. And mine varies by the race I am playing. In the Big Game I got stuck with MA Ctis and you got EA Lanka. If I had 200 double 9 blessed Palankashas at my command(and those banelords killed them all btw-that was their job), then i would not need to make thugs to stop them. Your castle bought troops are thugs in their own right. I do not have that luxury.

How many MA Ctis Swamp Guards do you think it would have taken to kill 200 of you sacred troops-especially when led by an sc that auto casts darkness at the start of each fight?

Back on topic.

Losing a banelord to a 100 yard spell is not my primary concern-they will be advancing to close range in any event. Losing my more valuable mages is. The thing that makes the spell unfair-to me in my opinion-is your mage can kill my mages from a safe distance, behind his wall of Palankashas. My mages can be targeted on the rear edge of the battlefield.

Yes i know there are battlefield spells that target everywhere, but most of those hit both sides.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

This is a hilarious thread.

K, I've got to give you credit. You've got style. I'm rooting for you in your MP game because you are funny.

Re: Banish to inferno-questions
 

OT: K is a tremendous foe.

If he kills me he will have my respect and my best wishes.