Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Hi boys and girls! What an alive and vibrant forum this subsection has turn out to be!

My first post here. I've got a quick question: Will there be a Dominions 4? Are there any rumors out there about what the next game of Illwinter will be?

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Illwinter said that there will be no Dominions4.

Maybe another game, but it really looks like there wont be a dom4 in the near future http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Yes I have heard this as well.

The reason I believe is the developers feel they have pushed the dominions game engine as far as it can go.

However, this is not going to stop me wishing like mad for dominions 4 and if not dominions 4 how about something new but very dominions'ish. You know for the 21st century, please, pretty please?

Of course the patches can satisfy the addiction cravings till then... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I'm happy enough with dom3 to be honest - not feeling the need for a sequel unless it had a totally revamped GUI, AI etc - which would be a huge project.

Modding can take Dom3 very far imho.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

The developers have said that they are driven by fun. Dominions 3 is setup so that it can expand what it has fairly easily. But most of a "Dominions 4" would involve rewriting much of the game from the beginning. Thats not much fun.

From an interview that Illwinter did...
And a long interesting thread that was sparked off by that comment.
We love you Illwinter but..

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I personally would love to see an RTS from Illwinter. Especially if it was done in the right way, and knowing Illwinter, it will be. I think RTS doesn't get enough respect from "die-hard" strategy fans. I am generally a fan of slower-paced strategy games with focus on real thought and strategy just like you guys (that's why I'm here!), but RTS can provide that as well. It's just it almost never does because the games are not designed that way.

One of my favorite games of all times (along with Dominions) is an RTS called Kohan. It's a slow-paced, thinking man's RTS that has some real strategy to it. They made a Kohan II as well, but they increased the pace, made it more "accessible", and more like Warcraft III and of course destroyed everything that was great about Kohan I in the process.

Anyway. A Dominions-style Space Conquest game would be great, too!

Illwinter should make the games they want to make, I guess that's what I'm saying. Until they put out a bad game, I think we should trust them.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Yeah I enjoyed Kohan and, like you, didn't enjoy the sequel much at all. One of the best things about Kohan was the feeling when you got a new amulet and you were seeing who you'd end up with. Like opening a 'blind' pack of some collector's item.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

another kid's dream broken i want my mummy sob sob no dominion 4 ! why why in the earth!!!

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Oh, interesting about Kohan. I only tried the demo of Kohan II, not the original, and saw that although there was good work in it, I would hate it because of things like they way a unit representing a company of warriors could be killed down to 10%, then "healed up" to 100% with no loss of experience, and other typical RTS annoyances.

I _still_ play Bungie's Myth series (mostly modded multi-player), which is a (near ten-year-old) real-time tactical game, which I like because it allows focus on fighting without having to do research and resource-gathering at the same time at a completely-out-of-proportion time scale, which is one major element that makes me dislike most RTS games (that and ones where you can't pause yet your attention is needed in several places at once or your men get slaughtered without your control and you may not even get to see what happened to them - that tends to kill my interest).

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Dominions 3 is perfect. Where could they go to next... Dominions in SPAAAACE?


please?

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Heehee. Kristoffer does an amazing job of offering us variety. And thats while operating within some limits (known religio/mythology). Can you see what would happen if you turned him loose with NO restrictions such as alien lifeforms?

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Maybe we could visit R'lyeys home world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I think you'd be looking at potentially the greatest space 4x game ever! Imagine just applying the core Dominions stats in a SF setting...60+ alien races, 1500+ technology tree items, hundreds of starships, multiple tech ages...

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

A fantasy setting interests me a lot more. Magic appeals more to the imagination, and having heroes and commanding living troops gives more of a humanistic feeling. Commanding star ships is more science and logic then imagination, and gives you less of a connection with your troops. That is just my preference.

Christopher being a history person would be more likely to make another fantasy game I believe.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Ah, but what's that famous quote from Arther C. Clarke?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

So there you go, a SF Dominions could be the equivalent of a new fantasy title. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Hmmm. So that means that all those dominion spells can get accomplished scientifically. Lets pick a spell. Flaming Arrows --> Get burning pitch. Tip arrows in pitch. Shoot arrow at target. See target burn. There! A high tech scietific approach to a dominions spell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif perhaps you have a point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

If you have enough imagination, and enough of a grasp of scope, you really find that fantasy boils down to one thing-anachronism. Fantasy-even Dominions fantasy-is basically just the trappings of various cultures, seen through the eyes of wishful thinkers who want the distortions of myth and storytelling, to be real.

Soooo...there's no reason at all that you can't have "future-anacronistic" fantasy, as opposed to "past-anachronistic" fantasy.

Look at Lovecraft: big influence on Dominions 3, and fantasy (through his friend R A Howard, of Conan fame), and he mixed fantasy, science fiction, and horror genres freely, and did so from an original mythos-base.

Personally, I think that Dominions 3 has only barely scratched the surface.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Sorry for digging up an old post. Is there any news about whether it will be a Dominions 4 in the near future or not? Please illwinter. This game has potential. Didnt you guys earn enough with Dominions 3? Youve now built up a fanbase, so why "throw it" away?

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Read the posts from Johan and Kristoffer in this thread:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...t=6#Post579651
to get some understanding of why they are making this game.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

As far as I know:

1) The Dominions engine has grown over about ten years, and is too big of a mess for major changes.

2) Illwinter guys do this for fun, and Johan (the programmer) works long days with computers on his main job.

Because I don't think Johan would enjoy working 20/7, half on his work and half on updating the Dominions engine, I don't think there will be another game based on it. I hope Illwinter will continue making games, and because I've liked all four games of Illwinter I've played (Dom:PPP, II and 3, and CoE2), I think I'd also like it, even if it wasn't Dominions.


3) An unnamed, non-Dominions 3 related project exists.
See this post. It could be anything from paying taxes to buying Bioware, although the latter one would've failed now that Vivendi out-did their offer.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Hi guys, every 6 months or so, i wake up and wonder if there would be or is any development on Dominions 4. So here i go again. Kristoffer, Edi, will there be a Dominions 4?

I would pay 150 USD for a copy of Dominions 4. On the spot. Here and now. And im sure many many of the users here would do that as well. So lets make a quick calculation. It wouldnt take longer than 1 year to fix a dominions 4 for a 4 man team since most of the balancing is already made. Lets say that 1000 persons payed 100 USD right here and now in advance, and another 50 USD upon recieving the product, then the 4 man team would get a salary of 25000 USD/year and a bonus of 12500 USD upon completion of the product. Naturally, not a perfect salary, but a salary that one could live on to pursuit a hobby?! The question is, do we have a 4 man team, do we have the 1000 that would pay the 150 USD?

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I would jump in. I have 5 owned copies of Dom3.

But Im afraid that the devs have often said that they do it for the fun, not the money. The devs have moved on and are working on a new fun project. So we would have to come up with enough to get someone else to try and write a Dom4.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Interesting, Gandalf, sounds a lot like the solution that I had in mind. ;)

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

i too hope for a dom4, though i feel it may yet be a bit too soon for it. even if illwinter doesn't want to make dom 4 themselves, they could grant the rights to someone interested in doing so (they'd probably want some creative and other control so nobody hurts their great creation), but it should be doable.
I know i've got the time to, but i'd have to have doubts about my reliability :)
I think in 2-6 years would be about the right time for a dom 4. though work would of coruse have to start somewhat before that.

what exactly would we all be looking for in a sequel anyways?
Zlefin :)

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

UI improvements, a pluggable strategic AI, and a more granular tactical AI. (That is, scripting how many gems to use, whether to prefer offensive or defensive spells, special preferences for/against certain spells, etc.) The rules of the game should stay essentially the same or else you get the "MOO 3" phenomenon where the sequel really isn't.

-Max

P.S. That said I am just as happy to have KO/JK working on their "new IW project" instead of Dom4. Hopefully the end result will be full of crazy ideas and opportunities for treachery.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Dominions 4 means code written from scratch, so it's a huge difference. Dom3 was just remade and improved Dom2. But to get many new things, better UI etc we really need new code. That's probably what scares JK most :) I'd say Dom4 will be in 2011-2012.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

It might be easier for a new programmer to recreate a Dominions from scratch. I would like non-linear AI (each nation having a personalized AI). And random AIs strategies such as once playing offensive, then next time defensive, researching, barbarian horde, flanking, stealth, etc.

And of course the things on the wishlists. Server wishlist, maps wishlist, general wishlist, modding wishlist. In that order altho of course that just my own preferences :)

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Gandalf:

I don't think there is any chance for Illwinter to give community rights to Dominions or a project coming to make Dom clone [unless Illwinter will say there won't be next Dominions version, but I doubt it].

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

A dominions RTS would be pretty cool, but the problem with RTS games is that the balance is much more on edge. Because of the fast pace and smaller number of players, if a race is overpowered then its a much bigger issue. I play a lot of CoH, and while Relic pays a lot of attention to it compared to many devs, there are still major balance issues 6 months after the release of the expansion.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

What I had most recently read, was not a condemnation of another iteration of Dominions - merely that it was not the next offering to be made from Illwinter.

I do believe the word "break" was used, in the temporal sense, rather than the permanent. ;)

That said, I can hardly imagine they'd want to work a deal that allowed them creative oversight - the video game industry seems to be the worst at actually staying true to the creator's vision, even when said creator is allowed to be in the same room.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

A very cool idea I think would be make a dominions game like the total war series but that would be very hard and time consuming.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

That would be interesting. more doable than an RTS for example. However, it would also make games exponentially longer. Imagine Kingmaker with people having to fight every single battle! :eek: And it would kinda stink if they went with the current TW multiplayer, there wouldn't be any metagame :(

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I think the best way, would be to make the gameplay somewhat modular.

That is, leave the tactical battles there for SP play, and for MP skirmishes like in Total War now.

But provide an enhanced interface for automated battles, to allow MP to work just as it already does in Dom3. One of the weak points of recent iterations of TW is that automating battles seems to just simulate "everyone rush to center and brawl", as evidenced by the propensity for generals to become seriously injured or dead. ;) Adding the ability to script out smaller battles at 1/10 the time of playing them out (less if you win and use the same script), but keeping the ability to have the epic tactical battles, would accentuate the good parts of both, and make them both useful.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Im not much interested in a video game version. But I would be thrilled with a flash version that could be played on cell phones and iPods.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I think a major graphical improvement is the only thing this game is lacking. It might even break into mainstream if it had TW's graphics :)

However, I think we all know that's not an option for a team of two people :(

The only chance I can think of is if there'd be some kind of collaboration with the TW-guys, but that's not exactly likely to happen :P

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

It might hook-in the shoppers that are convinced by pretty images. But then, like some games Ive bought, that could be done by just having a sales image that looks like its cooler than it is.

But everything has its pros and cons. It would likely shift the game into a game that does not share the computer well with other programs (not as easy to shell out and check your mail etc). And one not so friendly with laptops. Not to mention the headaches of getting such graphics to work on Windows AND Mac AND Linux. Plus it would make the possibility of digital download even less of an option to be considered. Lastly, many games that shifted to higher level graphics and sound formats killed off 90% of its base of player-modders.

Im not saying that its completely a bad thing. Just that it has its pros and cons.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

The modding issue is the biggest problem that I see, for a possible "modernization" of Dominions. I'm of the mind that everything else could and should be an acceptable trade-off (especially if there were TW style tactical battles, with Tartarians and Dragons and Illithids.... DROOL), but the hit to the ability of Joe the Plumber (hah!) to actually produce mod units/nations without extremely expensive and complicated 3D rendering software, would be a horrible shame.

But honestly, would we care if the engine were designed to accept fully rendered characters, as well as 2D sprites? I think that I could live with it. :p And if the conversion (read: addition) broadened the community much, I bet you'd find a few people who took great pride in doing graphics for mods that they were inspired by. They might just be students, or amateurs, but they'd do what they could, likely with similar degrees of competence that we generally see with the sprite art as it is. ;)

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

It's often a conscious decision whether or not to make a game mod friendly (apparently), so a powerful game editor would of course be nice ;)

It really takes tons of resources to make something like that work really well. Take Warcraft 3 for instance. It's probably one of the most mod-friendly games on that graphical level, but then it WAS developed by Blizzard :P

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I wouldn't see the modding problem as that big. There are many mods for TW that contain new/overworked models.
Although it would be madness to try and make all 1500 (?) existing dom 3 units in TW graphic. And if the engine could handle the units individually and still get some fps...

(But of course it would be awesome :p )

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Just for the sake of discussion, if you used the medieval total war engine the sprite quality would be pretty similar, I think. Now, fitting magic into total war, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Bear in mind, as it is in MTW2, you can end up with 20 unit types on the field at once. The vast majority of Dom3 battles see less than that, in an individual fight. Obviously the engine would need to be robust though, and be highly scalable to allow people to operate at lower settings and still enjoy the game.

Of course, converting all of the graphics would be a chore, but I'm pretty sure that CA would devote a talented team to making this a reality, if only they could settle on a deal with Illwinter. I will start the bidding at US1$mil. ;)

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Hey, as long as it's not my money, let's make it a cool US2$mil. One for each dev.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

As you all folks remember, every 6 months or so I do a desperate plea for a new Dominions. I was wondering if something has happened on this front? Do we have a movement? Has the devs changed their minds? Can we perhaps preorder a Dominions 4? Can we perhaps help somehow to get the ball rolling?

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Havn't we, the people who play this game, come to the point where we are to say: WE NEED A NEW GAME ENGINE? :D

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I'm perfectly happy with Dom 3!

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

Not really, no. I'm happy with dom3 and I think there's still a LOT that can be done with it.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I suppose an analogy would be trying to upgrade the game of chess. I think if u play dom3 only singleplayer mode then you may hanker for an upgrade, but for playing other people in a fantasy turn based setting its fine as it is.

+ i like it when its playable on my laptop, netbook, granpa's old 3rd hand pc and my pc at work :p

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

I'm happy with Dominions 3 too, but I would like to see Dominions 4 one day unless they turn it 3D which would make it total crap IMO.

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

yeah, 3D would probably equal downward modding spiral aka VERY BAD THING!

Re: Will there be a Dominions 4
 

sort of like when Elite decided to use realistic space physics.