SP Challenge
 

I recall reading some suggestions in different threads on how to make SP game more challenging. I did some quick search and couldn't find them.

What I'm looking for are ideas on how to spice up SP game to make it more challenging. I'm less into self imposed rules like I'm not allowed research above lvl 4, or I'm not allowed bless etc. Rather I'm more interested in things like specifically designed maps that give advantage to AI players.

Any tips on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Use the NI maps, they are in the map forums. I have at least 4. Edi made a mod as well to use with any map.

Ban yorself from using mercenaries.

Use Ballbarians randomiser v2.03.

Design the AI's gods.

Play the 1st 5 turns or so for the AI, then turn it AI.

You can use all those together.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Ahmm, what are the NI maps?- More important, how do I locate them in the map forums?

Maybe I can do that in conjunction with your last suggestion and give the mercs. to the AI.

What does it do to increase SP challenge?

Sounds like an excellent idea if albeit somewhat time consuming. I think I'll adopt that for Faerun or some such. Thanks!

Re: SP Challenge
 

Link to NI's maps:-

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...art=1&vc=1

Look for Sombres post on page 2, he bundled 4 maps into a attachment. Also Edi's mod is at the bottom of his posts.

There are more maps in this thread as well.

I am glad I looked, just found Velusions maps for download as well, cool.

Read through the thread for ballbarions semirandomiser, it allows you to design a AI god from the start and still have the AI on impossible difficulty. Which is very cool.

Also the unique provinces add alot of interest, very much like Edi's Faerun map but on any map you want.

Re: SP Challenge
 

NI maps are no indy maps. They stop the AI spending silly amounts of gold on independant troops by removing them from the game(they can still be recruited from special sites) and gets the AI to purchase more of their generally superior national troops.
Designing the AI gods and playing a little for them can help - particularly to stop them from making incredibly silly choices such as death3 and a nation full of old mages or very positive scales with LA Ermor but, IIRC, setting a nation to AI makes them default to normal level AI so they may not be as much of a challenge as, for example, an impossible AI.
Making a game on a no indys map, giving the AI a nation with powerful national troops(the heims/abysia ect) and either setting them to impossible or giving them order3, growth3, prod3 and then setting them AI gives them something they can work pretty well with(basic units and lots of gold/resources).

Re: SP Challenge
 

Wraith - I am currently working on a mod that gives the AI some pre-packed thugs/SCs. I'm still developing it but if you'd like to try it out I'd love your feedback. Definitely gives the AI some punch!

Re: SP Challenge
 

I think to make the AI a challenge you should abstain from scripting your mages (then your mages use the same routines as the AI mages do), as i think the major weakness of the AI is that she is completely unable to use magic.

Also the AI has no real tactic in using her armies, she just throws lots of material on the same chokepoints, so to provide a challenge you should also consider not to use PD.

NI maps might be also interesting.

Re: SP Challenge
 

I generally turn up the supply multiplier to help the AI not starve its large armies.

I also roleplay my nation, which limits my choices, especially when playing Ulm.

I think it may also help to have a large number of AI opponents. Then the ones that have bad luck don't really matter, and the ones with good luck can really get large and powerful, and you can end up at war with several of them at once.

Hard research and low magic sites are also probably in the AI's favor, maybe higher resources and gold as well, since the main way players outclass the AI is their ability to concentrate on the most effective magics and use them well.

Re: SP Challenge
 

I think you were looking for this thread...
http://tinyurl.com/3dgkbn

You might also try the Tower map. Its only wide enough for one nation at a time but its tall enough to hold all of the nations with lots of wilderness between. On the good side, you cant get swarmed by everyone at once, on the bad side by the time you reach some of them they are VERY powerful.
Tower_1.zip

And a Dom3 version of my popular Dom2 map altho I dont have it re-randomizing a daily version yet. It scatters surprises into every province.
Poke in the Eye map

So far only one other chaotic craziness map and it has 1500 provinces. It crashes some peoples machines and takes so long to create a game that some people think its crashed. Thats why I shifted my attentions to the programs which modify the maps with pre-written provinces.
MegaMap zip

There are also some mods which add nations that are new and challenging AI opponents. Look for the ones that are NOT balanced for human players.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Your mileage may vary...

But I found that -in combination with NI maps - turning gold, resources, and supply to max and Indy Strength to 2 sure gets the AI geared up and rolling pretty quickly. It's not going to train you for MP gaming, but when you're having to deal with 300+ good troops early in the game, you don't have time to sit back and craft SC's to trash the AI. You'll most likely have to start building tons of castles, and the AI has no problem building castles, either.

Re: SP Challenge
 

I play on a NI map, design the AIs pretenders for them (but don't play any turns, or use semirandom), set the supplies to be higher and then stale for the first 4 turns or so.

Re: SP Challenge
 

This is correct. It was suggested that low resources helps the AI, but I found that it was not true. High everything, low indy strength definitely toughens up the AI. I don't use the NI maps because I like indies, but a low indy strength allows the AI to expand quickly.

I tried crafting immobile gods for the AI using good scales, but I think the AI is tougher on impossible random gods than using my gods and switching to normal difficulty. It's an issue of the bonuses the AI gets on the difficulty levels vs better scales/god design. The major problem with designing an AI god youreself is that you design the god for how you play, not what is best for the AI, which is somewhat of a mystery.

One point that really changes the character of a game is to never play a game where your start position is in a corner or the edge of a map. If you are in the center 60% of a map, you will get 3 to 7 foes on your borders. Use map settings that allow 10 to 15 provinces per nation. If you don't find this a challange, combined with Morkilus' suggestions, than you are a much better player than I. (Do not assign this distinction significent value.)

Re: SP Challenge
 

Wow, thanks for all the advice guys!
The day I have to fight for my nations survival against some tough AI opponents I'll be very content. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'll be happy to try your mod and give feedback.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Creating gods at impossible levels can be done with map commands (even more than that if you turn off the cheat protection). And setting some of the AIs to ally with each other can really goose a game also.

Starting AIs with pre-packed thugs can be done with map commands also. Especially if you set them for high-experince and give them specific equipment.

I really should recreate the Dom2 randomly generated maps that added such things. The Dom2minions.com site generates new maps each day with such boosts. I need to get the Dom3minions.com site doing it I guess.

Gandalf Parker

Re: SP Challenge
 

I've created a challenging large SP map(688_land with 14_sea) which includes:
1) One AI starting with strong SCs, extra gold and gem income
2) Victory Point winning so the game doesn't last forever
3) Unforseen events on Turn2... be careful ending the first turn of the game.
4) You'll have a few years to expand your empire and prepare for war.
5) Unique Independent Provinces with rare items
6) AI opponents are allied
7) Large armies and large battles will exist


To create this map I had to setup the game where it must use the nations listed below:
A) Vanheim (early age) (human)
B) Tien Chi (early age) (AI opponent)
C) Argatha (early age) (AI opponent)
D) Yomi (early age) (AI opponent)
E) Helheim (early age) (AI opponent)
F) Ry'leh (early age) (AI opponent)
G) Niefielheim giants (early age) (AI opponent)


anyone interested can let me know

Re: SP Challenge
 

So is there some way to build a "single player" map with pre-set AI gods? I'd like to do this for a contest i was thinking about...

Re: SP Challenge
 

Sure. Pick a map or generate one. Then add this to the end of the .map file using notepad or wordpad.

#god 40 812 -- Lord of the Wild
#comname "Natural Disaster"
#allies 40 48 -- likes to ally with Oceania if they are both AI
#clearmagic
#mag_death 4 -- needed for Pangea spells and a bless
#mag_nature 4 -- needed for Pangea spells and a bless
#mag_blood 4 -- good combo with the above and a bless
#additem "Treelord's Staff" -- 2 more nature
#additem "Skullface" -- helmet with 1 more death and support
#additem "Armor of Souls" -- armor and 1 more blood
#additem "Boots of the Behemoth" -- goes well with his size 6
#additem "Brazen Vessel" -- misc slot and 1 more blood
#additem "Ring of Sorcery" -- 1 death and 1 nature and 1 blood
#dominionstr 40 6
#scale_chaos 40 2
#scale_lazy 40 2
#scale_cold 40 -1
#scale_death 40 0 -- this line might need removed
#scale_unluck 40 -3
#scale_unmagic 40 -1

-- 6 points left over

That gives middle age Pangaea a set version of Lord of the Wild named Natural Disaster with some added equipment, specific scales, and an ally preference. The number 40 stands for middle-age Pangaea if that helps to read the code above.
Gandalf Parker

Re: SP Challenge
 

By the way, besides being able to give equipment and set the gods parameters, another fun thing is that you are not limited to the normal list of gods. You can give any god to anyone (Lord of Night comes to mind) or even units that arent usually gods (Horror? Tarrasque?). And if you want to exceed the normal range of allowed points then you can (just remember to turn off the cheat checking when you play it)

Re: SP Challenge
 

Here is an early-age Pangaea Gorgon build I found in the Semi-Random thread. Semi-Random is a program that adds these things to a map for you.


#god 11 138 -- PANGAEA GORGON
@RANDOM comname COMMANDER
#clearmagic
#mag_earth 9
#mag_nature 4
#additem "Shield of Gleaming Gold" -- hand slot
#additem "Sword of Sharpness" -- hand slot
#additem "Black Steel Helmet" -- head slot
#additem "Robe of Invulnerability" -- body slot
#additem "Boots of the Messenger" -- feet slot
#additem "Amulet of Antimagic" -- misc slot
#additem "Amulet of Missile Protection" -- misc slot
#dominionstr 11 10
#scale_chaos 11 3
#scale_lazy 11 1
#scale_cold 11 -1
#scale_death 11 -3
#scale_unluck 11 -2
#scale_unmagic 11 2
-- 6 points left if we were dormant...

Re: SP Challenge
 

Here is an early-age Arcos Cyclops


#god 0 156 -- Arcoscephale CYCLOPS
@RANDOM comname COMMANDER
#clearmagic
#mag_fire 4
#mag_earth 5
#additem "Shield of Gleaming Gold" -- hand slot
#additem "Frost Brand" -- hand slot
#additem "Horror Helmet" -- head slot
#additem "Copper Plate" -- body slot
#additem "Birch Boots" -- feet slot
#additem "Girdle of Might" -- misc slot
#additem "Amulet of Missile Protection" -- misc slot
#dominionstr 0 10
#scale_chaos 0 -2
#scale_lazy 0 -1
-- #scale_cold 0 0
#scale_death 0 -2
-- #scale_unluck 0 0
#scale_unmagic 0 2
-- 4 points left if we were dormant...

Re: SP Challenge
 

OH WOW!

Here is one that gives early-age Ermor an Eater of the Dead as a god! OUCH. And gives Banes as assigned bodyguards and extra starting units.


#god 1 994 -- Ermor Special: EATER OF THE DEAD
@RANDOM comname COMMANDER
#clearmagic
--#mag_fire 0
--#mag_air 0
--#mag_earth 0
#mag_astral 9
#mag_death 9
--#mag_nature 0
#additem "Bane Venom Charm" -- misc slot
#additem "Amulet of Antimagic" -- misc slot
#dominionstr 1 10
#scale_chaos 1 1
#scale_lazy 1 -1
#scale_cold 1 1
#scale_death 1 3
#scale_unluck 1 -2
#scale_unmagic 1 -3
-- Unpredictable prelude of things to come...

#bodyguards 10 185 -- Bane
#units 20 185 -- Bane
#units 20 185 -- Bane

Re: SP Challenge
 

Unfortunately from my testing assigned bodyguards do not remain when given to an AI opponent. The AI has been known to move any units into attacking offensive units and even give them to other commanders.
Are you sure the Eater of the Dead pretender won't turn independent after reaching it's final size?

Re: SP Challenge
 

I dont know, but either way it should be fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Maybe not a challenge, but interesting at least.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Gandalf provides good examples, but the map edit commands do not limit the boundaries of points being spent. Thus if you wish to create a super powerful AI it won't suffer the cheating penalty because it's an AI opponent.
On the map I created I provided the AI opponent with a vampire queen fully equipped on items with level 9 fire, level 9 earth, level 9 air and level 7 nature plus a growth scale of 3.
Be careful not to provide the AI with too powerful of a starting dominion otherwise it might swallow allied neighbors... unless that's your intention.
Be careful on selecting large sized pretenders for the AI as it will send most of them to the death match arena.
AI opponents usually need a growth scale to help prevent starving armies, old age afflictions, and gold income issues.

Re: SP Challenge
 

I forget that about the AI not needing cheat protection off, because sometimes I play with these gods. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. You can also use these commands to build a god you otherwise couldnt have (unit type, starting equipment, etc) and play it yourself if you want.

I guess I should have said that if you want to play this god, then be sure to turn off cheat checks.

Re: SP Challenge
 

NTJedi, your map sounds awesome. I would really love to try a game with it.

There was this map for dom-2 that was modded to be extremely challenging for SP. what was its name?- Orania nasty or war or something. It was quite a fun map. Maybe there are also such maps for dom-III as well?

Re: SP Challenge
 

Gandalf, your examples look great. I think it could be perfect if it was possible to conveniently stuff some of them into a mod so that they could be easily used. Or maybe that's close to what Ironhawk's mod is doing.

Re: SP Challenge
 

You mean put them in a map? Im not sure that a mod would do the same thing. But I have been asking for a mod that is based on the AIs abilities while working around its disabilities. So far there hasnt been much of a nibble in that area.

Hey NTJedi:
I played with the Eater of the Dead god as my god. It did go rogue. At first it sieged its own castle but eventually it wandered off. I still can follow behind with scouts and claim the empty provinces that it leaves in its wake.

Im not sure if its still my god or not. I dont automatically get the provinces it clears. But I dont have "call god" so its not considered dead to me. It will be interesting to see what happens if it dies. Maybe I can catch up and watch some battles to see if it still gets things like dominion bonuses.

Re: SP Challenge
 

My maps from any game are typically viewed as difficult by the average gamer. I recommend not reading the .map file to add more mystery and surprise.

The game must use the nations listed below:
A) Vanheim (early age) (human)
B) Tien Chi (early age) (AI opponent)
C) Argatha (early age) (AI opponent)
D) Yomi (early age) (AI opponent)
E) Helheim (early age) (AI opponent)
F) Ry'leh (early age) (AI opponent)
G) Niefielheim giants (early age) (AI opponent)
Here's where the SP map can be downloaded:
http://www.mediafire.com/?5hye3y0jvzj

Attached to this post is a screenshot from the map.

Re: SP Challenge
 

I tried Gandalf's suggestion last night. It was really easy to insert a god in a map. Took me about 5/10 minutes to create a single god. This is a pretty good innovation. You need Edi's data base to get unit numbers, but after that just copy the format Gandalf shows.

It is good to learn from earlier in the thread that when you create a AI god like this you don't have to stay within the game points limits.

Re: SP Challenge
 

If you have a favorite god that you play alot, and want to play against him, you can also get item and unit numbers while in-game. When you are in the view of the unit or item, hit Shift-I and you will get the game-info screen.

And if you are like me and would rather view all the monsters instead of looking at a spreadsheet, there is an All_Units game around someplace that puts them all into the game and "names" them with their ID number. That way you can scroll thru the commanders view and click on ones you want to look at some more. Very handy if you want to find a unit to fit a specific idea like a "King Arthur" or something.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Anyone know where this is? Link would be good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: SP Challenge
 

Hmmmm I actually couldnt find it. So I whipped off another one. Its a real pain to pin down the last unit number you can display without crashing the game by trial-and-error.

Anyway, here is one.
http://www.dom3minions.com/docs/AllUnits.zip

Start a game, choose the AllUnits map, Early Age, and be sure to play Arcos.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Cheers for this Gandalf, should prove interesting.

Re: SP Challenge
 

Yes the third province, where I tweaked it and tweaked it to find the last displayable unit number, is very interesting. You get to see units that arent in the game yet but should probably appear in the next patch.

Of course, that patch is likely to add yet more units for us to find that wont be in the game yet at that point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SP Challenge
 

Yep, those Nemedians, Milesians look interesting but the Fomorians really catch the eye, a new race of giants.

I like the fact it allows you to see what a unit is like with Gift of Reason as well. Now how do I get Ettins? 3 weapon slots + 2 head slots makes a good thug... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Also I notice there is a divine mummy unit, which seems to indicate this is what you get when you cast ritual of rebirth on your dead god from the hall of heros. Is this correct? If I did this, could I then call god as well, meaning I would have a mummy god and my normal god? Oh please say its possible... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: SP Challenge
 

Those are fun. The game doesnt seem to set units as commander, troop, god, summons. They all are inter-changeable. My total chaos maps had fun with that. I would run thru each province on the map and assign a commander of the unit <random number from 0 to 1809> and then assign a small random number of bodyguards of <random number from 0 to 1809> and then a larger random number of troops of <random number from 0 to 1809>. You could run into a province where a slinger commander had 5 monoliths as bodyguards and 10 horrors as troops. A bit too random but it was alot of fun for a wierd game once in awhile.