History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Ok, this is a challenge to all you creative writers out there to come up with a clear, consise, descriptive, involved, interesting, convoluted, chaotic, realistic, fantastic, and/or whatever other adjectives, explitives, and other grammatical terms I haven't employed since the 5th grade or so, History for the Dominions setting.

Here are the rules:

1, the events have to fit on a timeline, somewhere, that we'll all be using. Everyone uses the same timeline. We'll have to agree on one first, ofcourse, and that will be the hardest part.

Alternative timelines/settings ARE allowed, but to use them, you have to do 2 things, 1: let us know upfront that it *is* an alternative timeline or setting or viewpoint, etc. from established canon or the main timeline, and 2: give a reason why the timeline or whatever split off.

2, Everything has to agree with and follow along with the known Dominions canon-aka you can add to what we know, but you can't take away, without express permission from the Devs. So, what's presented in the three Ages happened in that order, and so forth.

3, Once you've entered something into the History, it's there for everyone to use-and for the Devs to overwrite/veto/etc-but I'd strongly suggest you get permission first before you use it

4, Everything entered should follow along with the themes presented in Dominions-that means a basis in A: real-world religion, history, philosophy, technology, etc. B: a real-world mythos that is within the public domain (Cthulhu mythos, Jules Verne, etc.), or C: you either make it up yourself, whole cloth, or change it enough that it is far enough removed from the original source that nobody can sue.

5, 3, Be Responsible. Do your research, know your canon (or ask), do your best not to step on the toes and feelings of others, and don't plaigerize. Also, the Devs have final say over everything, period. This should be obvious, but I feel it should be said.

I will be more than happy to personally help anyone who asks, to the best of my ability, whenever I have time to do so (which isn't always a lot, but please always feel free to ask, and I will help everyone I can, as much as I can), with any kind of research or editing or whatever.

6, No events that would change the Dominions setting into something radically different, unless presented in such a way as to make this a natural progression. Thus, you are allowed to have aliens land on the Dominions world, as a nation (aka R'lyeh), but not in massive UFOs, unless/until such time as the idea of UFOs would seem to fit in with the current direction the Age you're working on is going in-so, at the very least, not until Pseudo-Victorian times, if such exists.

This rule is primarily to prevent any "power-tripping" or "immersion-breaking" events, nations, etc. It's not there to harm anyone's creativity-so if you can make up something that wouldn't objectively seem to fit, but you can shoe-horn it in, in such a way that it makes the game more fun for everyone, then by all means do so. Just try to do it with tact and moderation, and the consideration that others may follow in your footsteps.

7: Any technology which has been invented or could be invented is allowed. This means yes to gunpowder, yes to internal combustion engines, yes to whatever, BUT: magic exists, it works, it's powerful, and it is every bit as possible to innovate with magic as it is with technology, and humans aren't the only ones with access to it.

For that matter, for the purposes of the History, consider magic and technology to be the same thing, and the "differences" to simply be a matter of perspective by way of Arthur C Clarke, excepting that, instead of magic simply being highly advanced technology, it's a resource/powersource that can be harnessed and utilized from the beginning, through certain methods only available to the beings living within the Dominions setting.

Just remember that others may follow in your footsteps-once guns are in the game, they're in, and they're not coming back out again, so I'd suggest the community be wise about what goes in when and how and to what extent.

8, No events shall circumvent the basic theme of Dominions-by this I mean that no, the Pantokrator was not an elf, etc. etc. etc.

9, No Pantokrator-yes, there is a Pantokrator within Dominions, and yes, that being did influence certain events, but the events associated with the rise-and supposed fall-of the Pantokrator are to be assumed to be what is being simulated whenever you begin a new game.

Thus, whoever wins the game *IS* the Pantokrator, and as such, the Pantokrator is outside time and space, and the capacity of this History, except where utilized by the Devs.

The exception to this-and this should be kept to a minimum-is that the Pantokrator may act upon the world to the extent of your average Urban Legend-by this I mean rumors, superstitious, and suppositions that an all-powerful being may be acting upon the greater timeline in some fashion, but no concrete fact, unless stated by the Devs. This should not be on the level of a major or even minor religion. More along the lines of say Mothman or Batboy.

The other exception to this is that the Pantokrator may figure into the backstory of a Pretender, since Pretenders can sometimes find themselves outside of time and space, as well.

10, No matter how far in the future or past you choose to go with Dominions, magic shall remain a major influence on events. Astral magic-atleast-exists at every point in time, and the other magic paths should be assumed to exist as long as there is a reason for them to exist. Other paths may be added (if you can get the Devs to do so) but magic never totally disappears. It should be viewed as a cycle, with magic being very powerful and "physical" in one age, fading or changing in another age (or through several), but with the potential to grow stronger and more direct-or different, or simply easier to work with-in ages to come.

This is mainly to keep things interesting, and to prevent arguments against someone's chain of events that happen to include strong magic where others might suppose it to be weak or non-existent.

Lastly, and this is just a suggestion, but it would be very nice if things were steered away from a Humanocentric viewpoint. One of the best things about Dominions, in my opinion, is that you've got a whole great variety of cultures, races, traditions, etc. and humans are not on top. We're already on top on Earth, and we are a major race/factor in Dominions, that's enough for our egos.

So, if you want to play in a world with just humans, I suggest go join a bowling team.

Let's all consider taking a walk on the wild side and keep things fluid where species dominance-even our own-is concerned.

Now, as to why I feel we need such a timeline and History?
I'll present my reasons below, so this thread doesn't become unreadably long. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Ok, the reason behind the big, giant thread above is simply this: By way of a history for the game, we can present how nations view each other, how they've related in the past, and how to role-play them "correctly" within the dimensions of a game.

If Ermor was invading the lands of Marverni in the early ages-which real world history would seem to suggest-then it would stand to reason that Ermor and Marverni would have some sort of relationship to one another. Possibly hate and loathe each other, but just as possibly a lot of intermarriages might exist. This would then extend into Pythium, when they branched off from Ermor, and Ashen Empire, where the Late Age Marverni-descendants might be especially persecuted by the Ermorese, or might be looking for some payback with major priestly carnage.

Multiply this times every single nation in the game.

A history would also help fill in gaps, and create others, leading to more interesting-and fitting-nations. If Agarthans and Atlanteans knew about each other, it's likely they fought one another, and reasonable that they traded with one another, both being amphibious. It's even possible that they allied with each other, exchanged magical and cultural practices, worshipped similar deities, etc.

So, maybe in the Late Age you've got an offshoot of Atlanteans living in a massive, underground sea, worshipping huge basalt statues carved to represent Dagon or krakens or whatever-so, now you've got an Atlantis late age golem cult.

Maybe instead of Atlanteans, it's Aboleths hiding underground, and now you've got a divided nation who's most physically powerful units-weird tentacled golems-need magical leadership, and who's most magically powerful units-mutant albino aboleths who have gone blind from living undergound-can only survive underwater.

It stands to reason that Niefelheim and Abyssia wouldn't like each other much, but it's just as reasonable that they wouldn't have much contact at all. Which might cause them both to have myths and superstitious about one another. In Dominions, myths and superstitions have power, and that power leads to things both cultural and magical.

With history, we can explain the presence of independent nations, and we can also explain their role. It allows the creation of maps which represent "canon", and the creation of provinces and independents with a great deal more flavor than we currently have available.

Independent nations become important in the game, and when you see a province named the "Primordial Woods", you know that's one of the locations where the Ivy Kingdom is said to have encompassed-and where their remnants may still survive, and nurture old hatreds.

99% of this type of game happens in the imagination, but without the presence of a deep and involved history, you're leaving out 98%. Look at how popular Tolkien is, and he just used basic fantasy steriotypes-but the one area he truly excelled in, was depth of history and culture. He even invented a bunch of languages to go with the history and peoples of Middle Earth.

The Dominions setting has the potential for 10 times the depth Tolkien's work ever had-I mean think about it, the game was *BASED* on a multitude of real world history, information, religion, etc. and not just from the Anglo-Nordic sources Tolkien drew from, but from dozens of cultures and sources, but that potential has never been realized-and it should be realized, because it would benefit every single aspect of the game, and of our enjoyment of the game, and it's something that we can do as a community, without any programming skills at all, aside from simply the ability to type and to imagine.

I, for one, think it's really important, and really worthwile.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Fanfiction is just what dominions need. Finally we can learn of Sporsnjalls unrequited passion for Angerboda and Tjatses lusty escapades amongst his furred friends in the Pangaean woods.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

... Do we have the esrb rating for that?

Especially with all the tentacled monsters we have...

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I'm only doing fanfiction if I'm allowed to write long paragraphs about the lustrous jet black hair the colour of the dark unending abyss that seemed to flow like dark waves of unending voidy abyssyness,.... of my main character, an emo goth bisexual teenage witch. She'll also write poetry about her soul which is a void of dark black poison dark abyss, which I shall reprint in full. Also something with ravens and black roses and frozen tears and crap, I have no idea. I guess she's from Ermor or something, but I can shoehorn her in anywhere.

Seriously though, this reminds me a bit of your "accepted community mods" idea HoneyBadger.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

LP - Ewww!

Sombre - I like your story! I want to read more!

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Ahh...so now at last we might learn of the reason the star fell, as those who would later be emulated by the Celesital Masters of T'ein Ch'i reached out from enternity into time, and did smite the foul creatues of R'lyeh for daring to breach that which they had sealed long ago...

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Hmmm, someone should tell JO to change his password more often http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

But seriously, if you want to go down this path, it seems like a good first step would be to write up the real timeline of the existing 'fixed' history events we know of. What year did the falling star spell undersea doom; when was the last Neifel giant seen; when did Ermor's desperation lead to their studies with C'tis's dark arts; when did the first human forces penetrate the caverns of the one-eyed; how many years are there between the start of Early, Middle, and Late eras, etc...

Sill

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

No reason it should, Sombre, since the two are completely unrelated topics. Are you sure you're actually reading the post before replying to it? And if you read that one, then why aren't you reading all the ones that actually were related? I've made several posts on this topic that were a lot more relevant to the subject.

Or maybe you mean that both ideas would actually help increase a sense of knowing what's actually going on, before throwing 50 or so nations into a bloody world war? In which case, thanks for the validation.

Johan's lustrous hair fetishes aside...:) this is potentially a valuable tool. I'm not talking Sombre's dreamy-eyed bisexual goth poetry, or even stories as such. I'm saying that objectively, relationships can and should be established between the various nations, based on some kind of consistent chain of events.

Not in order to hamstring or harm the multiplayer experience, or to force anyone to act in a way contrary to how they want to play their nation, but in order to give touchstones and reference-points, so that their's reasons why a player/nation's actions matter.

"Nation" is a powerful word, and it means something more than just an army.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I think I just rolled against -- in no particular order -- Awe, Fear +25, and MR. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

I have actually been kicking around ideas for Dominions-inspired fiction -- dark fantasy world; humans definitely not top dog in comparison to summons; battlefield dominated by mages and SCs, with ordinary soldiers just present as meat shields -- but that's not quite the same thing.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

So anyone feel like laying out the list of EA/MA/LA events, particularly those supposedly happening during the move from 1 age to the next(ermors fall into darkness ect)?

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I'm supposed to find and read all the posts you've made related to any given topic before I'm allowed to reply? That seems pretty unreasonable.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

You're allowed to do whatever you want, including posting to a thread without having read or understanding what you're posting to. I'm a big fan of freedom of speech.

But, you're telling me you read the "accepted community mod" thread and are making judgements based on that.

Is it my fault that that thread doesn't have anything to do with this one? It's just as unreasonable to expect everything I've ever written to somehow be related-I'm not Michael Moorcock.

I think it's reasonable to expect, when you're trying to make a point, in the process of attacking something, that there's actually a point to be made.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Interesting that you interpret my post as an attack.

Does this paranoia manifest itself in any other ways? Excessive PD building perhaps?

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Why just writers? I'm hoping to be able to do some Dominions-inspired animation in the future. Some Abysia - Wolf Tribe clash, with a sudden appearance of a Lumber Construct, which is burned by the Demonbred appearing from high in the clouds, which is killed by a horde of harpies while Centaurs assault the side of the Abysian force, and then all of this is suddenly destroyed when a Daughter of Dawn is thrown down on them from the heavens, followed by a blue dragon entombing its enemy - and the grove - in a sudden snowstorm.

Of course, ATM I couldn't even do a proper Wolf Tribe warrior, not to speak of the Abysian with the heat shimmering/grass catching flames effect, or trees or environment or anything. However, I intend to do projects of various sizes, once I'm out of the army, to learn more quickly.


Actually, as far as I understand it whatever Tolkien wrote BECAME stereotype. His elves weren't the cattle-stealing Tuatha of the Irish, or the Victorian elfs who have more in common with Santa Claus' little helpers than Tolkien's semi-divine elves.
Any way, I disagree with your claim that fanfiction could give Dom-world anywhere near as much depth as Middle-Earth has. Tolkien used a better part of his life on creating his stories, languages, maps, calendars and histories. Fans can create a lot of content to fill the gaps, or widen a world, but I don't think we should be trusted to create new things for it, to create depth.

Despite not agreeing with the reasons you gave for this thread, this is a great idea. There are no scenarios in Dominions. It lacks all the tools for creating stories within the game (except for those little stories of limp, obese assassins who kill gods and conquer the world in the name of the Everburning Fire, the Devourer of Children). If there were good enough stories, maybe we could get Johan to give us some basic scenario tools. Even custom start messages, Game Over messages and You Win messages would go a long way.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I think you'd be surprised at how much depth a few committed (read: crazy) fans could come up with, were they unleashed. After all, a large part of the time Tolkien spent was in establishing all those "steriotypical" concepts, and he mostly just had the support of the other Inklings, whereas we have several hundred people on this forum, with atleast 100 regulars.

I don't have any steriotype against writers, not at all, but I wasn't daring to hope that anyone would be making Dominions: The Movie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif More thematic music would also, ofcourse, be appreciated, as would poetry, especially if both had pseudohistorical significance.

I'm not sure we need languages, as most of the cultures here are based atleast in part on real world cultures, with languages of their own. I'd be happy to create a few languages, though-atleast alphabets and small vocabularies, as well as calendars. I have some amount of experience there.

Johan seems to like good stories-he expressed so towards DrPraetorius's hoburg story-so maybe we can entice him in that way.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I've seen some of that in various contexts. It could happen, but only if it was organized - and what you suggested wasn't organized. You hoped everyone would act together to create a better world, and that never works out.

I don't think a movie could happen, any more than a novel. But while you're thinking of a short story, I'm thinking of an animation of few minutes. Something like a really crappy game trailer or cutscene.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I hope that is not me you are reffering to, but JK. Truth be told I am somewhat sceptical of fan created material, beyond mods and similar. There is something about writing stories about other peoples stories that I find inherently unattractive. It is also a prejudice of mine that fancreated fiction often tends towards the prurient, I was trying to snarkily convey that with my previous post.

Personally I think it is a strength that not everything is explicit in dominions, that the history is vague and perhaps not even completely consistent provides room for imagination and fancy. The hinted is more evocative than the obvious. the unsaid is more intriuging than the explained and the half glimpsed more alluring than the starkly visible.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I was hoping, but yes, I agree with you. It does need organization, which is why I started with a set of rules, just to lay out an outline of what I felt would be appropriate.

I'm not quite to the point of short stories, I had in mind just a basic timeline, and then adding to that until it reached a saturation point of information, at which time
it could lead to/inspire the writing of short stories, as a reference.

I think your idea of a cutscene sounds great. You might also consider, if it appeals to you, creating a slideshow/screensaver animation for Dominions. I've always thought that was a good solution to the dullness of having to wait for turns to complete, and a good enough example might inspire the devs to include it in some form or another-it's something I'd like to do myself, but I don't have a scanner, and I can't do good enough artwork with paint programs and a mouse.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I was referring to the other Johan, Johan.

But...I do agree with you, in part. I like things to be ambiguous, vague, surreal even. BUT...NOT pitch black.

There's a whole lot of material that can be added, and background information suppliments the imagination.

To use Tolkien for example-tons of background on every aspect of Middle Earth, and yet, it still inspired hundreds of thousands of people to imagine, and a respectable percentage of those to create their own universes in that same model.

You can't convince me that happened because their imaginations were being stunted by Tolkien's encyclopedic background.

And with Dominions, you can offer atleast 50 or 60 different perspectives, one for each nation, on the objective history. Probably a lot more than that, and each one relatively valid.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I completely agree with Johan in that the mystery is more alluring than clearly detailed. That's why I'd like to see details about a Pangaea/Abysia war, but not the war in which Abysia corrupted the Grove of Gaia, weakening its magic and thus driving Pangaea towards the New Era. We know that there's been many wars between Pangaea and Abysia, and writing about that is safe. Coming up with something that isn't supported by the game itself, or that details something that should remain a mystery, should be avoided.

I tried to say the same thing with my above "widening the world, not creating depth" post.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

I'm sorry, but I fail to see what great mystery you're trying to conceal.

I'm taking about an atleast somewhat consistent history for, and modern relationships between, the nations of Dominion, so that some decisions made in-game can have a basis in good role-playing.

I'm not trying to hunt down Bigfoot so I can stuff him and put him in my den. Some cultural touchstones would be nice, but details like that, in my experience, add to characterizations, they don't take away from them.

Funny sounding names alone don't a good setting make.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

We don't have to know who broke the seal, how he broke it and how that destroyed the Oracles. We know that the Seal was broken, and that the Oracles have died. That's the mystery. Until we get a national summon, hero or something for EA Agartha, we won't know, and until that point, we shouldn't add anything of our own. I'll use my mods as an example. I've created several heroes, like the Obsidian Medium of Agartha. An ancient statue that was infused in Earth magic, became aware and slowly learned to think, and then slowly found its way towards Agarthans whose presence it felt, only to appear too late and find the remnants of the Agarthans living with humans... It's outside the bigger picture. It isn't mentioned anywhere. It doesn't change anything. The Seal is still broken, Agarthans are still doomed, the Medium can't change that. I've also made an Agent of the Oracles - a Golem Crafter with Earth/Death/Fire and Holy due to being personally trained by the Oracles. Again, a small story that doesn't affect the big picture.

I'm not interested in precise history, or stories about Spornsjarl, or Angelique d'Armant or Carmont the Cardinal, not unless the IW team got their word in and the writer was really good.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Why shouldn't we know who broke the seal? Knowledge of such a person or being leads, itself, to other questions, which in turn give the imagination more toys.

A better question to leave unanswered is the exact nature of what was *behind* the seals-3 gods, maybe. Maybe not.

It becomes speculation about the nature of the setting, not just a misplaced record. It's not the person who broke the seal that's necessarily of interest, unless the person or his reasons are of interest.

Not being able to know what, how, and why is a lot more fun than not being able to know who, where, or when.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

We shouldn't know "who", because that changes from game to game. "It was God of Agartha, the Ancient Olm" isn't a good answer if you have a Dragon.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Was it your Pretender that broke the seal though? I always understood that either the gods broke out finally, by themselves, or that they were released by curious humans, either accidentally or intentionally.

If it was your Pretender, then it's a simple enough device to leave out the description of who did it, other than to say just that-that it was your Pretender.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

This is also a good reason not to detail the "who" part. There are so many possibilities to choose from, and writing out one of them would make one of them more real than the others. Not good.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

But, if you don't write out some of them, or even most of them, then you end up without definition, any sort of consistency, or even a real setting, since everything's possible, but nothing has any meaning.

It's like one of those shows where you watch it for a whole season and then at the end, somebody wakes up from a dream and everything's completely different. Some mysteries are fine, and they add to the setting, but too many mysteries just make the setting shallow.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

Would you consider Hemmingway a bad writer? Story telling is about giving the reader 10% of the story but being aware as an author that the other 90% exists and writing your stories accordingly.

Re: History of the Multiverse, Part 1
 

That goes without saying, but here, we've got about 0.0001%

Minimalism is only good to a point, and in the story of the Old Man and the Sea, we know there's an man, he's old, and he lives by the sea.