Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

1.You Dominion limits the number of sacreds you can recruit per turn?

4 Dominion=4 Sacreds 6 Dominion=6 Sacreds

2.The Sacreds used in the "Bless Rush" for MA Vanheim and Ermor are Vanhere and some Valkyrie for Vanheim and Shadow Vestals for Ermor?

3.Shadow Vestals only cost 20 gold/3 resources while Vanhere and Valkyrie cost 50 gold/16 resources and 60 gold and 12/15 resources?

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

1) Yes, although it's actually a BIT more complicated. It always starts as that, but it can be increased further by building temples. Every 5 temples you have will increase the limit by one, so 4 dominion and 5 temples = 5 sacreds, 4 dominion and 10 temples = 6 sacreds, etc.

2) MA Vanheim sacred unit is called Van. Vanheres are the EA Vanheim sacred units, which are berserking infantry; MA's Vanir are sacred cavalry with a spear and a shield.

Other than that, yes, MA Vanheim uses Vanir and some Valkyries, MA Ermor uses Shadow Vestals, MA Mictlan uses Jaguar Warriors, etc etc. Sacred units with low resource cost and good survivability (due to glamour, etherealness, second shape or some other similar ability) are easy to rush with.

3) I don't remember the costs ATM, but what you see in the game is what they cost.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

> Shadow Vestals only cost 20 gold/3 resource

Yes. I'm not sure why that is. Seems like an omission of some kind. They cost 35 with the patch. Might need more.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

The resources for a shadow vestal are so little because the weapon does not cost any resources. So 1 for base unit, 2 for the shield, 0 for weapon.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

They also are butt naked.

Jazzepi

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Shadow Vestals are strong to begin with, awesome for early expansion.

But having played MA Ermor twice now are very, very weak in the mid/end game.

They are capital only, you share a age with MA Margnon + MA Abysia who laugh at shadow vestals.

They are hard to use in a stealth capacity, as you lack numbers and fires from afar wipes them out quickly once they reveal themselves.

Shadow Vestals are very vulnerable to evocation spells lightning, fire etc and because they are undead are also vulnerable to all the many anti-undead spells.

Raising the cost of Shadow Vestals is a serious blow to MA Ermor.

Personally, I always struggle like mad with MA Ermor once I reach the mid game, it seems to become a dead end nation.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

I believe that MA C'Tis also has really good game against Shadow Vestals. They get emposiners at 110 gold, or the marsh wizards at 220. The emposiners have much better precision, but both of them are basically built to cast eagle eyes, and then spam dust to dust right out of the box, assuming that you have some time to reach these low level research targets.

Jazzepi

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

I think the term you're looking for is "buck nekkid" Jazzepi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Once again, I am almost positive that stealth is resolved before global spells. At least my SCs were teleporting into empty province - shadow vestals lead by a druid were gone. All you need is to scrpit them 'hide' instead of attacking another adjacent province.
As for the 'useless in late game' - thank GOD they dont dominate all battelfields in the lategame as well. Its not like Ermor doesnt have free undead from neutral priests, decent national troops and nice mages after all.
But does it make shadow vestals obsolete?... find a province with druids and you have got stealthy raiders. Or in my current game shadow vestals scripted for 'wait and attack large enemies' are making my flying mammoth obsolete. F9W9 shadow vestals make a very short work of mammoths.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

It is true that map spells (including teleportation) are resolved after stealth.

However, Mind Hunt, is effective vs. hidden adversaries. And I am pretty sure if you lose your stealthy leader while in an enemy prov, the whole squad is effectively vaporized. I have used this tactic to clear out stealthy raiders, using multiple mind hunters to blanket the provinces around / including where the raiders last appeared. Even if the Mind Hunt is not successful (which it often is vs. normal stealthy leaders), you can locate the raiders by keeping track of which mind hunters target which provinces.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Are there any spells besides Mind Hunt that -do- work vs stealthy units/commanders? It would be interesting to know for sure.

Also, if you order units to sneak instead of hiding, is that still resolved before rituals?

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

I used this tactic but fires from afar was very effective in wiping the force out when I revealed myself. They did try to sneak away...perhaps its hide that gets resolved before ritual spells?

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Most rituals do work on stealthed units with the exception of assassin spells and Seeking Arrow. There might be a few more, but leprosy, murdering winter, the 2 fire remotes, mind hunt (as mentioned) all work. Not sure on wind ride, though that would be quite an effective stealth-breaker.

And Bob, while fires from afar might be good at killing vestals I'd say trading 200g worth of sacreds for 10 fire gems worth of artillery isn't a terrible trade, either...

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Just tested this, and Micah is correct (with a caveat).

Assassin spells, teleportation, and seeking arrow are all ineffective vs. stealth units.

Leprosy, murdering winter, and the 2 fire remotes do work with the following caveat. If the stealth unit is hiding in or sneaking out of a province that belongs to the stealth nation, then the stealth units are susceptible to the above spells. If the stealth units are hiding in or sneaking out of an independent prov or a prov owned by an opponent, they are immune to the above spells.

In other words. . . if you suspect a spy in one of your provs, the only spell that can take out the spy is Mind Hunt. However, if some stealthy raiders take one of your provs, you can use the above spells to retaliate.

It should be noted that Mind Hunt can take out an entire stealthy army (providing that it is in enemy/independent territory) for 2 gems, a much better investment in terms of both efficacy and cost than the other mentioned map spells.

Clear as mud?

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Not really clear. Since you can sneak from your province into an enemy province. Then both of the conditions you state are true.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Yikes, that sounds pretty bad for the stealth units...

Are there any stealthy astral mages, as someone suggested upthread? Even then, your raiding squad would be vulnerable to e.g. fire spells, and it might just be worth pulling the trigger if the raiders were high-value units such as Vanir.

Back on the original topic, has anyone ever tried powerblessing with Tir na Nog? They resemble Vanheim enough that this might be viable.

Re: Three questions regarding sacreds.
 

Spell effects are resolved prior to movement. So, if sneaking out from your own province, your stealthy units will be vulnerable to the previously discussed list of spells - regardless of destination. If sneaking around in enemy territory, stealthy squads are only vulnerable to Mind Hunt.