Space Monsters!!!
 

Ok folks, I'm writing a mod for space monters... only need to finish the AI_const_vehicles, AI_DesignCreation, find componet/facility pics and get permission to use the Cephalopeia ship set.

But I have a question for you... Would you want a mod that is "error-trapped" OR one that is compatible with TDM???

Here's my quandry, right now it's compatible with TDM... it adds stuff, but dosen't change anything already there. But there *can* be some problems... if the monsters get ahold of tech their not suppose to (particularly ship construction) they might produce ships that aren't "right"... also their facilities are WAY overpowered if a human captures one (they are balanced for them though), this shouldn't be too easy as they are to produce lots of troops and most of their systems will have a "Change bad Intelligence -100%" ability... but it can happen.

The way to fix this is by going the P&N route and creating a "normal tech - racial trait" thus disallowing the space monsters the normal technology (and I wouldn't need to make such uber facilities to ensure that the space monsters use 'em and only them)... this is a bit of extra work on my part, and means that all empires will need to be "adapted", it dosen't take too long but it reduces compatiability.

What do you guys think?


Also, if you have/know of good "organic-looking" componets facility pics let me know... I need 'em and I'm not an artist!

[This message has been edited by Trachmyr (edited 08 July 2001).]

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Anyone? opinions? I'm almost done (just need a few componet pics, and get permission to use the ship set), and I need to know what the seiv comunity would prefer... a completely "non-abusable" mod or a stdandard seiv/tdm compatible mod.

Please let me know...

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trachmyr:
... a completely "non-abusable" mod or a stdandard seiv/tdm compatible mod.

Please let me know...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would prefer the "non-abusable" Version. Otherwise -I guess- even if the human players are self-restrictive the monster techs could be found in ruins by the other AIs. OTOH, if your mod is not compatible with TDM then it could cause a lot of work -from your side http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif - every time when a new patch comes out ?

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

thanks for the feed-back...


It won't be that abusable... all of the monster tech is a racial trait (although a 0 point one), but to make sure the "monsters" only use stuff from this tech I have to make their facilites (Larval Pool, Metamorphisis Nodes, Central Nervous Nexus and Organic Harvesters) "uber-facilites"... i.e., they produce alot more than their "non-monster" counterparts... but they have inherent disadvantages due to their culture setting that off-sets it. But if a human can capture one of their worlds, it could be abused.... I have them building alot of troops/fighters for defense and they get a 100% ground combat bonus and the first facility they build gives the "reduces bad intel" at 100% (I don't know if this actually works yet). They won't research/build normal stuff (even the ship sizes they use are non-standard (i.e., a small queen is 440KT a Large Soldier is 560KT) and the ai_design_creation file specifies these EXACT non-standard sizes) and they won't except trades/gifts (or any form of diplomacy) giving them the tech...

What I'm worried about is players doing their best to CAPTURE these worlds instead of glassing them... If I require all other empires to take a racial trait (0-point) of "Not a monster" (ala P&N), I can completely remove the monsters acess to normal stuff, thus I don't have to make their facilities "uber-facs"... but all empire files will have to be altered, both currently in se4/tdm and all future ones (not to mention requiring a larger .zip)

So now that I've explained it a bit further, what do you think... is the possibility of abuse remote enough that I can leave it like it is... or should I go ahead and create a "Normal" racialtrait and alter techarea.txt and all the .emp files?

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Hate to tell ya, but I think if you add ANY new racial traits- even if the empire doesn't use em- the empires need to be redone.

As for human players capturing- they won't be able to build- you can't analyze racial techs, remember- so it wouldn't be THAT bad. Or.. hrm. I wonder if you could make the ships zero cost, then specifiy the planets to make one spaceyard/queen ship and abandon?

Phoenix-D

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Yep... just found that out, I got to make all new .emp files! great, and I thought I was almost done http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Oh, well... I guess I might as well do it the "safer way" now.

BTW, I know that the tech couldn't be analyzied... I was just afraid of humans getting ahold of a built-up hive... And I wish I could get them to abandon a colony, but there's no way to do it that I know of...

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Then try and create a self-destruct building for a planet -&gt; IF the planet gets captured, then all the facilities will self destruct

------------------
Emperor Klis't of the Taera Republic.
Proud member of the League of Empires.

E-Mail -
Ora Planet - Taera Republic - League of Empires

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TaeraRepublic:
Then try and create a self-destruct building for a planet -&gt; IF the planet gets captured, then all the facilities will self destruct

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This would be a new ability and it is not possible for us to create new ones. Only MM can do this.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This would be a new ability and it is not possible for us to create new ones. Only MM can do this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Self-destruct is not a new ability; putting it on a planet just hasn't been tried before.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If I require all other empires to take a racial trait (0-point) of "Not a monster" (ala P&N), I can completely remove the monsters acess to normal stuff, thus I don't have to make their facilities "uber-facs"... but all empire files will have to be altered, both currently in se4/tdm and all future ones (not to mention requiring a larger .zip)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would be happy to add a "monster mod" mode to my AI Patcher program, and you could use it to patch your AIs quickly. The players could download it too, and patch the new AIs as they come out.

The addition would be only 6 lines of code or so, plus helpfile, if I add it on to what I've got already.
What I need to know is:
1) The exact spelling (including upper/lower case) of the racial trait.
2) Any help comments you want to add.
Everything else is already done.

Check my sig for a link to the AIPatcher.

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads.
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-&lt;Download compatible EMPs&gt;-
-&lt;Easy to Use AI Patcher for any of my mods&gt;-
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[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 09 July 2001).]

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

I'm liking the sound of this monster patch.
If you want TDM compatability yo do need to change the EMP files and General_AI for all of them. However, you don't need to include all the bitmaps.

Alot of effort on your part, but you'll save the end user alot of effort, and thats apreciated &gt; makes you mod more sucessful http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.


Self destruct: Has anyone thoguht about destroying the whole planet?! I'm sure theres an option for that :-\ http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Or maybe you could program the AI to do that after capture.
&gt; Monster AI aren't allowed to build planetary shield generators either in that case.

If you're not allowed to use the cehalopeia fleet just say 'You need to install this shipset first' go and download from here: http://universalshipyards.tripod.com
or from his brother's home site: http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com'

Then your will be titchy, about 200kb max, just for those AI updates and data files!

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Well good news! I got permission to use the shipset (and sound files!), so I'm now in the process of making 3 Versions:
1) Stock SE4
2) TDM
3) P&N


Suicide Junkie... your offer of the AI patcher is great! you'll save me a ton of work, changing all those AI_General files was a bit daunting...

Here's The Info:
All exisiting empires need to have: "Civilized Race" (without the quotes)
This will open racialtech area 10, for 0 points...
P.s., all tech areas with racialtech # set to 0 are changed to 10 for this mod.

If you could make 2 Versions, one for se4/tdm and 1 for P&N, I would be very thankful...

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Now, all of the AIs that are run through the patcher will get the civilized trait, so if you want one or two to be monsters, be sure not to patch those ones.

Hmmm. Looking back, I don't see an official name for the mod.
I've called it "Trachmyr's Space Monsters v1.0".

If you have a quick description of your mod for the readme, I can copy it from the forum.

Also, I have your mod listed as "supported but untested", so if it works great, tell me so I can update that.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you could make 2 Versions, one for se4/tdm and 1 for P&N, I would be very thankful...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm more than willing to have any number of Versions, of any number of mods, supported by the patcher.
Now that I have the serious code done (read/write files, analyse lines), almost any mod can be added in less than 5 minutes.
Typing up the help entries takes up most of the time now http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif.

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads.
-&lt;Download V1.6&gt;-
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6&gt;-
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Visit My Homepage



[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 10 July 2001).]

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Well, as a lot of the mod comes from others... I don't want to put my name on it. Let's Call it SPACE-MONSTERS v1.0


Again, thanks a bunch... When I start the P&N Version I'll let you know...

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Changes done.

Do you have a description for the mod? Three or four lines for the readme, just so players can be sure they're using the right patch on their mod.
(This could be different for different Versions)

The uploaded files are just for updating my sig links, don't worry about the duplicate patcher zip.

------------------
The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.0&gt;-
-&lt;Download V1.6&gt;-
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Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Let's See... How about:

This Mod adds the most dreaded creatures in all known space... the Giant Ether Squids. These foul beast rampage through the galaxy infesting worlds with their larval spawn and feeding on unsuspecting ships. They said space was empty, they were wrong... for monsters lurk in it's darkness.

You Might want to call the patcher: SJsAI_MonsterPatcher v1.0

P.s. Just for clarification, this patcher is for Stock SE4/TDM NOT P&N, correct? Hopefully, Space Monsters can be made a permanent feature of the next P&N Version, thus no seperate patcher would be needed to add Space Monsters to P&N.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Just Re-updating the links with the latest changes (only affects the readme, not the EXE)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You Might want to call the patcher: SJsAI_MonsterPatcher v1.0

P.s. Just for clarification, this patcher is for Stock SE4/TDM NOT P&N, correct? Hopefully, Space Monsters can be made a permanent feature of the next P&N Version, thus no seperate patcher would be needed to add Space Monsters to P&N.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Since I have to include modified AIs for P&N v2.0 anyways, when I add the Space Monsters, the monster AI would just be bundled in. The AIPatcher is just for adding extra AIs that I haven't dealt with yet.

The AI patcher is one program for all mods.
You use a pull-down menu to select anything other than the default P&N v2.0, and it will patch any classic SE4 AI into the mod of your choice.

There are currently four settings in the patcher, PiratesMod, P&Nv1.2+, P&N v2.0, and SpaceMonsters v1.0.
All of these mods are serviced by the one (and only) AIPatcher.exe

Click "Mode", then the mod of your choice.
The next time you hit "patch AI", it will do the changes required by the mod you have selected.

Sorry for the long-winded spew above http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
------------------
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[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 10 July 2001).]

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Hey just started using it... it's VERY helpful (Now if you could only get it to generate .emp files http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif).

Sorry bout the "dumb" suggestions, I hadn't tinkered with it yet, didn't know it was an all n' one kinda program.

Well, again thank-you... it'll save me a good deal of time.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

SJ, just wanted to thank you again.... The aipatcher worked great!

As a side note, found a quick (subjectivly) way to make .emp files:

Step one: Make sure all empires have a "quick-start" entry in settings.txt

Step Two: make sure all AI_General files are patched

Step Three: Make(or copy the old ones) .emp files in the empires directery... they don't have to work or have any info what-so-ever, renamed txt files will work as will the old non-working .emp's.

Step Four: Start SE4 and do the following for each empire...
1) Quick-start a game
2) Set the password (to "1" for instance)
3) Save the .emp file under a tempoary name (i.e., first 3 letters of the empire)
4) select a NEW GAME, and repeat for the next empire

Step Five: In the Setup for a new game (not quick-start), load all the tempoary .emp's and for each do the following:
1) Select edit & remove the password
2) Select the Designname.txt file (this is the only entry that AI_general.txt dosen't specify, either write down the correct ones or choose appropriate ones)
3) Create the empire and Save it to the Permanent file (This removes the AI's intial ship designs that were in the temp. .emp file)

Step Six: go to the empire directory and delete all the temp. .emp files.

Although this is a bit long, it's quicker than cut & Paste or remembering/writing all the entries... one problem, it only works for 2K setup, you'll still have to hand do 3K & 5K Versions.

Hope that info can help you!

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

If you want to make it so that players/AI can't take the space monster's hive planets, give them a facility that give +10000% ground combat. Their militia will make conquest nearly impossible, forcing players to bomb their planets into oblivion. (The facility should be pretty high in their priority, so you can't take a hive planet after they build the other goodies but before they their anti-ground stuff). Just make it cheap to build.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

To prevent capture, you'd also have to either ban intel entirely, or make the monster race in such a way that they don't have planets.

Otherwise, there'll be a planet path, and they will be vulnerable to CI/PPP. (And CI applying to, oh, a giant space squid is just... weird. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif) If you give them powerful intel to defend, they'll probably also use that to attack -- which is also rather odd.


------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Well, the squids don't use the normal tech tree, right?

You could make their ground defense facility *also* provide massive amounts of intel points, but make it so they only research that- and that tech gives them the best Counter Intel level ONLY. So they can't attack with intel- no projects to do it with.

EDIT: here's any example.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Name := Squid CI
Description := Defensive preparations within an empire to prevent enemy intelligence operations. Counter-Intelligence will prevent attacks while it is in progress.
Group := Defense
Cost := 500000
Type := Intelligence Defense
Effect Amount := 3
Num Source Messages := 1
Source Message 1 := Our counter-intelligence operations have prevented intelligence attacks by the [%TargetEmpireName].
Num Target Messages := 1
Target Message Title 1 := Intelligence Project Defeated
Target Message 1 := One of our intelligence projects against the [%SourceEmpireName] was defeated by counter-intelligence defenses.
Source Picture := IntelSabotageByUs
Target Picture := IntelSabotageByUs
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Squid Protection
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then just make it so "squid protection" also only gives the ground defense/intel facility, and makes sure they can't/won't get applied intel.

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 10 July 2001).]

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Nifty idea... could be turned into a racial trait for intelligence near-immunity, even (could it be overwhelmed with lots of ops? Hrm.). In this particular case, I'd suggest using a sillier message, 'tho.

"Squid. Squid. Squid. Your spy. Which one doesn't belong?"

Or something to that effect. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Good idea phoenix, right now one of their facilities uses the "Reduces Bad Intel" at -100%, but I'll but in the CI only intel production as add'l security.

BTW, there is no way for them not to use planets... ALL races start with a planet and no ship.

Well, the facilities are not so powerful now for humans... so I'm not too worried about intel. I'm still concerned with psychic's ability to subvert the squids.

Does anyone know if a ship is vunerable to computer viruses and allegance subverters if it has a bridge/lifesupport/crew AND a master computer?

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

I didn't that there was a "change ground defence" ability, but I see it in abilities.txt. That's great, does anyone know if it actually works though? And what the maxinum value it can use.

As a side note, I discoverd that If I changed ground combat in culture.txt, any percent greater than the max allowed by settings.txt (in this case 150) is ignored, same with all the culture values... I wanted to make them produce NO minerals/radioactives, so I set production value to -50%, Minning/refining to 50% and farming to 150%... but no dice, they still had a min. value of 50%. Similar problem with maintainence... I wanted to change culture.txt so the space monsters have 25% maintaince bounus, and change all their ships to have a modified maintence cost of 900%.... thus if they were subverted by psychic races, they would cost 10x to maintain! But the creatures value is a min of 5% (as per settings.txt), so they wound up paying 10x5%=Twice normal! I can put this idea back in BUT I would have to alter settings.txt to allow a max maintance reduction of 25% (no maintaince)...

Still considering it, what do you guys think? Should I alter settings.txt to protect monsters from being abused by psychic races BUT allow players to abuse it by setting maintance reduction to 25% OR should I leave it alone? Give me you opinions please!

Oh, SJ... I kinda feel dumb now, your way would work alot faster! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

The way I usually generate .EMP files is:

1) Start a random game, max AIs, no Neutrals.
2) On turn one, set all AIs to human control.
3) As each AI takes its turn, "Save Empire"

If the AIs were patched by my patcher, that is the end of it. If not, then:

4) Start a new game, "Add Existing Empire", then edit and add the required normal/civilized/etc. traits.
5) Save Empire again.

It goes pretty fast that way.

------------------
The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread).
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-&lt;Download V1.6&gt;-
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Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Well the ground combat ability dosen't seem to be working (atleast in the simulator), gonna have to rely on lots of powerful troops.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Couldn't you make a custom shipsize that requires no bridge or life support or AI? would it still be capturable?

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Rather than using ZeroAdunn's suggested custom shipsize, what if you gave the squids a "Squid Brain" component that functions like a Master Computer? The MC bug with the psychic races is supposedly fixed. I've never encountered a computer virus in the game, so I don't know whether it would affect this squid brain.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by capnq:
Rather than using ZeroAdunn's suggested custom shipsize, what if you gave the squids a "Squid Brain" component that functions like a Master Computer? The MC bug with the psychic races is supposedly fixed. I've never encountered a computer virus in the game, so I don't know whether it would affect this squid brain.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why not just give it all the abilities for bridge/crew/lifesupport? i think it would be cool if a race could psychially enslave a space monster. sort of like Dune, but not really. if the tech is on racial traits, you cant analyze it for anything.

if you want it to be immune to psychics and to computer viri, make the brain equal to a few dozen crew quarters. psychic take overs are based on the crew capacity of the ship. you could also build in a self destruct function. sure, if the brain goes then it could be captured (psychic or boarding party). what does that get you? a squid corpse in space? you cant repair any of the components, so it does not do any good aside from a trophy.



------------------
"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Adding multiple lifesupport or crew quarters abilities gives you no effect. The max is one per component.

If you make the brain an MC with more hitpoints that the most powerful Virus wepaon, it won't be damaged by those weapons.

Psychic allegiance subverters have a success rate equal to the damage rating, in percent.

IE 60 damage = 60% chance of takeover, but only if the shot hit the ship.

Crew Quarters have no effect on the A.S. They do, however, have a built-in 16 points of defence against boarding parties.


------------------
The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.0&gt;-
-&lt;Download V1.6&gt;-
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6&gt;-
-&lt;SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Crew Quarters have no effect on the A.S. They do, however, have a built-in 16 points of defence against boarding parties.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have used dreadnaughts with 3 large mount A.S.es with religious tallismans. they almost always bring down ships dreadnaught size and lower. against starbases, they usually have about a 50% success rate, not per weapon, for the entire volley.

that is just from observation, i dont know how the code in the game handles it. this was also back on Version 1.30

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

So where can I download this wonderfull mod? =)

All I've found in the mod section was the neomod, but that modded a whole lot more, and gave me range-check errors when checking for shipsizes. Also the space-monsters didnt tech up, and I heard someone mention they had a mod where the space-monsters teched up slowly? (probably with the research generated by their homeworld).

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have used dreadnaughts with 3 large mount A.S.es with religious tallismans. they almost always bring down ships dreadnaught size and lower. against starbases, they usually have about a 50% success rate, not per weapon, for the entire volley.<hr></blockquote>Interesting...was this under standard SE4?
Also, did you see that effect in the simulator as well? (it makes testing much easier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

yes to the first question, and 'i didnt try' to the second one. of course, i cant swear to the range i was at. so in hind sight, the success may have been dependant on my range. it would be worth trying at various ranges, but i CAN tell you that sometimes the first hit at a range would not work but the second or third one would.

to be honest, i have been so put off by the ineffectiveness of psychic techs compared to their research costs, that i have not fooled with them in a long time.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

I am wondering where i coudl get this great addition? and is it actuallyin P&N because i didn't see the ability to be a monster/have monsters in your game. I also think to offset the talisman maybe pyshic or some other racial trait could have a really great ECM device.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I also think to offset the talisman maybe pyshic or some other racial trait could have a really great ECM device. <hr></blockquote>

That would not help against ships with talismans. A ship with a talisman on it always hits, regardless of the ECM of the target.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Dudes,

Although I think space monsters would be fun, and I don't think they'll ever be included in SE IV in any official capacity. Let's hope they'll pop in SE V though!

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

maybe not officially in se4, but they can be modded very effectively. maybe if you gave their hulls the emissive armor ability with a threshold of about 150 points of damage. you would have to take them out with capital ships, and they would be almost unstopable in the early game. maybe as they tech up, their newer hulls would have higher thresholds so you would need 900+ damage to hurt them late in the game. you would have to use dreadnaughts with WMGs or PSPs or the like.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

okay okay okay. there are alot of ideas for space monster races out here. i think we should make a SPACE MONSTER MOD that puts them all together into a MONSTER MASH scenario. make 4 or 5 monster races using the ideas described here. one could be the big nasty organic monsters, another could be the super stealthy undetectable monsters, another could be the ones with psychic abilities and boarding parties and shield depleters all built in. yet another could be crystaline space monsters..

throw them all together into a scenario and put it on team mode. if they dont expand past their one homeworld, the monsters should not fight each other (angry values should not increase, as there would be no contested systems). your goal would be to survive and eradicate the space monsters. difficulty could be ramped up for multiplayer games by optionally giving the space monsters cultures with things like +200% traits to make them that much harder. of course they would have to be non-treaty making xenophobes.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>maybe if you gave their hulls the emissive armor ability with a threshold of about 150 points of damage<hr></blockquote>You would not require large capital ships with WMGs, but rather a stack of fighters.

50 Fighters with DUC I's can do 1000 damage per shot, as far as emissive armor sees it.

In one game, I was using Very Heavily shielded large fighters, that could destroy an AI baseship in three shots, and lose only one or two fighters.
(I had organic & religious, so 100% to-hit, plus lightning rays did almost 1200-1500 damage using only 30-40 fighters)

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

well, religious fighters are not exactly standard.. and even so, having a super stack of fighters would require about as much effort as having a dreadnaught, and its plauseable that a fighter swarm would overwhelm a space monster where as ships would not. i think the idea is still worthwhile wither or not it takes a dreadnaught or 50-100 large fighters.


besides, maybe one of the breeds of monsters would have massive PD abilities. any takers? im up for helping out on building the tech tree for the mod, but i cant script AI for a darn.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Puke,
I was thinking of (perhaps) adding space monsters to the Devnull Mod. Just one monster race for now to check it out and test it. I can do all the AI scripting, so if you are willing we can do this together. What we would need to do at start is make some kind of "battle plan" and nifty ship/component ideas for the monsters.

Oh, and a warning: I don't have a lot of time at the moment, so the whole thing is probably going to move rather sloooooowww.

Rollo

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Ok, as far as making Monster planets harder to conquer...

I can confirm the ground defense ability does not work for facilities. I tried doing that when we were working out ways to toughen up planets in general.

Options:

Make a monster culture with bonuses to ground combat.

Raise the strength characteristric.

Build lot of troops. With monster tech you can make some really tough troops. This is kind of a waste of resources since they can be toasted from orbit. But you can make a monster-only weapon platform that is small (troop size) but has a lot of tonnage structure, and heaavily armored. Make them tough enough and yo can't bLast the troops from orbit, if the troops are strong enough you can't conquer the planet.

Give the monters another racial trait that is similer to the advanced storage racial trait, but with as hign as a percentage as will allow. The population expands on the homeworld, more population means mreo militia, and militia can;t be killed from orbit, without glassing the planet. Also with uber-adv storage, you can have more monster plats and monster troops.

If you do ALL of these together, that should make the planets unbeatable by anything but glassing.

Geoschmo

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Also,

What exactly is the concern with monster planets being captured? What is it about the facilities that makes them so valuable?

Maybe you are planning this already, I didn't see it discussed, but you can make the monster ships self replicating (construction ability) and negative maintenance (old P&N mod did this IIRC) and the monsters won't be dependant on planets to survive. Make the planets ordinary, if they are captured, no big woop. And once they are captured or killed then the monster ships become impervious to intel attacks.

Actually that's good. Monster ships could build copies of themselves. But the planets (monster nurseries) can build them much faster. So the incentive for the players is to get the planets as quick as possible to cut down on the numbers, and then hunt down the ones that got away.

Although, I am not sure the monsters will attack your ships once there planets are gone, because they won't have any reason to get angry anymore. They might just go idle.

Geoschmo

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

IMO they shouldn't use planets at all if possible. Because if they use planets they show up in the politics screen, and the intelligence screen, and that's just weird http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The hard part I think would be the AI, assuming no hard-code changes to allow it.

Phoenix-D

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

When I played the miniature Version of Star Fleet Battles monsters were always a pleasant unknown factor. In one senario It was Federation, Lyran, Ferengi, and a large unknown black moddle I made from scraps and stuff. It was at least twice the size of the largest crusier. During the inevitable slugfest between the Feds and the Lyrans, the Ferengi manged to tow it away. The "monster" was just a huge empty hulk whose value was less than that of fule spent dragging it. Even though the "moster" was harmless, it gnerated uncertainty and caution in the minds of otherwise overly bold players. In short, a monster that did nothing but patrol a system would be interesting and frustrating surprise.
Other types of monsters might be ones with nothing but Point Defence Cannons, or masive Shields and a few Capital Ship Missles. The goal would not be to create a dangerous or hard to kill ship, but rather an unknown element. this uncertainty in the minds of players would be compounded by the knowledge that is "Could" be a "Planet Killer".

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]</p>

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

They have to start with a planet, even if it has no facility tech to build starting facils on it. SE4 always gives you a homeworld.
However, given a space yard to start with, and multiple races, they should kill off each other's homeworlds, leaving only the space borne monsters.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

without a planet, they go idle and dont fight. they will have a single cloaked planet (cloaking facility or starbase) and not be able to colonize beyond that.

Rollo, im up for it if you are. drop me an email (my address should be visible to the forum here) and we can get started on a preliminary draft of what we will be doing.

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Well since I was dieing for a monster-mod, I started building my own.

I took the only basis I could find: some components and shipsizes from the neomod. Excellent way of covering stuff, but I enhanced a lot of stuff.

The mod gives you 'space monster' as special ability, I made it number 7 as I gave borg borg-tech as racial too. 'Space monster' gives the holder space monster-tech, which starts at level 1 (which is currently also the max level).

Space monster tech gives 4 shipsizes: small, medium, large and gargantuan space monster, with various sizes (the big one is BIG). In the mod they indicated to special pictures, but I just used standard shipsizes to be compatible with TDM so I wouldnt get a range-check error. I also used the Cephalopeia shipset, but the Species 8472 set works brilliantly as well.

The special vehicle sizes have the special 100% maintenance reduction.

The components consists of organic-cost-only comps (all just one level techs):
Organic Armor - gives supplies per turn
Central Neural Complex - Acts as bridge, but I added 1000 defense turrets power and self-destruct power so space-monsters wont be boarded.
Internal Organs - Life support, added regenerative capabilities to this one, as first all components had it which we know is bugged if one type gets destroyed.
Connective Tissue - Crew Quarters
Organic Gravitational Core - Engine with big movement, only one allowed
Plasma Bolt, Lightning Ray, Enveloping Acid Globule - weapons
Reproductive Organs - Acts as spaceshipyard!
Senses - attack bonus and long range scanner
Chambers - Cargo
Planet Killer - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Supply Reservoirs - supply
Gravitational Warp Heart - Open and close warppoints
Harvester - Important ability: to harvest organics!

I loved these ideas from the author of the neomod. Had to tweak one another, but still. Made an AI that wont make treates, but will only get angrier (I hope).

What I still need is a speechfile with everything garbled (shouldnt be that hard), a way to make the AI not build anything except the monster vehicle sizes, so they dont build colony ships, and a way to make the AI use ONLY the monster tech, not anything else (thus any research they do should be moot). And to figure out how to get the ai to actively harvest organics from various places while spawning new vehicles from there.
And a way to get them to attack occasionally, but not all-out suicidal, with or without home-planet.

Maybe I'll make the space monster tech multi-levelled so they build up to bigger space-monsters as they progress (as long as they got their homeworld), and make their weapons evolve.

Oh and is there a way to add master computer capability to a component without confusing the AI (thus that the AI still uses internal organs and connective tissue).

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Egregius ]</p>

Re: Space Monsters!!!
 

Space monsters = Great!

Egregius, it would be good if the monster planet (pref. hidden) was capable of research. Then the monsters could get tougher and tougher as time goes on... a challenge even into the end game.
And to keep the monsters alive longer, give them very strong planet based shielding from the get-go... even if they are discovered, the most a player can do is intercept the enemy ships as they're manufactured... er, born.

For the resource gathering, I'd imagine that the monsters would also remote mine unoccupied planets and asteriod belts, but with very high efficiency. This would reduce the value of the planets as they went, which would make the game more challenging for human players... just imagine, giant space cows grazing the moons of Patueria IV!
[Edit] And the Great Vaccume-Elk Herd from the Jasperitis Nebula leaving random scatterings of explosive scat/poop (mines) throughout the Banffia system as they migrate to Kananasky XII [end Edit]

The mod(s) sound great, and I'm really looking forward to them,

Skol,
jimbob

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: jimbob ]</p>