MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

MA TC got some new cool commanders in last patch. One of them is Ministry of Magic with random magic skill. What is weird is that he can be recruited in every castle and does not need lab. Is it a bug or feature? And if it's feature does it apply to all mages with only random magic paths or just that one case?

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

This could be considered a bug. The random magic pick does not register as being magic because it does not fall directly into any one of the 8 paths, so the game doesn't know how to handle that, apparently.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

It applies to any and all of them. Always has been the case.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

They could be perceived as 'natural' mages, not needing the lab infrastructure to develop their talents.
Not quite fitting to TC civilised mages though.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

This can be fixed with a mod without changing the paths of the unit, I believe.

You just give it the same random picks, but also 1 in each path, then give it a -1 magicboost applied to all paths. I think that would mean it requires a lab. Could be wrong though.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

I'll tell you what does confuse me though - why doesn't MA TienChi have a mortal emperor? It has the jade one, but not the divine one, despite being the most imperial nation in the game. Unless I missed something in the pretender select screen.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

Perhaps the Then Chi emperors are very secular and not claiming godhod as emperors from other nations.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

It's true for all of them. I hope it doesn't get changed.

Especially for those mages that have less than 100% chance of getting magic at all. LA Man has Judges and the spy Magisters that may have magic.

I've always seen it as a special feature of some of the weak mages.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

I don't see it as a bug, just as some minor game feature benefitting very weak mages. I put labs in all my castles and unless the lab was destroyed by an event or I'm real short of money, very few turns elapse when I have a castle without a lab.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

I hope it's WAD. I really like these kind of mages and wish there were more of them. Aren't there some indie mages that only require a temple, for example?

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

You need lab to research anyway and that mages are best for that. I was just curious if it was desired or not.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

I have encountered some indy priests that have a chance of a path that only need a temple.

One time I remember getting a mage with 1B that didn't need either a temple or a lab. This mage was on the same site as a 3E regular mage that needed a lab and I'm almost positive you could also recruit those camel looking things there.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

Could nations which have no-lab mages speed up their research by building forts near their capital, and churning them out?

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

Mostly I find it very convenient to be able to get a new fort started producing without having to get a mage there, especially in the early game.

Use a scout to build a fort, recruit the no-lab needed mage, have him build a lab and you're in business.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

I don't think this would be effective. First, these type mages are usually pretty low research point types. Second, for only 500 gold you could build a lab and get better researchers and not lose the turns the no-lab-required mages spend traveling to a province with a lab. Third, castles are a pretty expensive investment for a low research mage.

The game is complex and there probably are circumstances where this is a viable strategy. But no matter what, it probably is far from a game breaker.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

thejeff made a perfect statement about how to use them. You don't need to go with a mage to construct a lab somewhere. And I wouldn't say that 5 research is bad, especially for TC.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

But you still loose a whole turn moving them to a lab.... and you still pay the 800 gold castle cost.

Yes, it is 800 gold instead of 1300 gold, and, most importantly, you still have to wait the castle construction time. Lab's only take one turn to build no matter what.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, the cheapest research mages are ALWAYS SACRED. So you would normally want to build a temple to.
Making the real cost 1200 gold instead of 1700 gold.....
Oh wait, the random path mage isn't sacred so....... and all sacred's take a lab.

This is really very very far from game-breaking. Could someone sneakly pull a reasonable advantage from it? Maybe.

I fear triple-blessed phantom vans a lot more in the early game, myself.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

The only truly natural magic users in the game that doesn't require infra is the Vaetti Hag. It's the only unit with just random magic picks (1 random sorcery) that isn't sacred and/or doesn't have some other magic path to begin with.

Minister of Magic and the Sauromatian Soothsayer are the only other ones, but they are not available as independents.

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

LA Man's Judges and Magisters aren't sacred and have no set paths. They don't have 100% chance of a pick, though.
I still built them when I could, though. Even the non-mages were useful. Judges have a patrol bonus and the Magisters are spies and engineers.
Not independents, of course.

Do Vaetti Hags come as independents? They must be rare if they do.
I love the Hags though. So useful and so cheap.

I'd also disagree with Lord Bob that the cheapest researchers are always sacred, simply because not everyone has access to sacred mages. TC maybe, but Jotunheim has the Hags and no sacred mages...

Re: MA TC mage does not need lab - bug?
 

MA Mictlan have mages with 1R, always had. I discovered it in my MP, but thought thet it would be a bit exploitish to use them , since they are dirt cheap researchers anyway. Still needs a temple though.

The feature is not intended, but it might not be a problem. In the case of judges and ministers of magic it might fit.